I bought this Kellogg wooden phone, if anyone has in info on it that would be great. I would like to do something with it, possibly wire it a modern day phone line, is that possible without modifying it?
Nice find. Looks to be complete except for the batteries of course. It should not be a problem getting it to work. The one thing most important is to be sure the magneto does not send power into the line.
Quote from: HarrySmith on February 09, 2023, 07:52:01 AMNice find. Looks to be complete except for the batteries of course. It should not be a problem getting it to work. The one thing most important is to be sure the magneto does not send power into the line.
yeah I was wondering about that, out of curiosity what would happen if you did?
Depends on your system but nothing good for sure!
Quote from: HarrySmith on February 09, 2023, 02:08:40 PMDepends on your system but nothing good for sure!
that's what I figured. what would you do to wire it up? Simply disconnect the magneto and wire a phone line to it like a newer phone? Or is there something else that would need done?
Quote from: bdoss2006 on February 09, 2023, 02:46:00 PMthat's what I figured. what would you do to wire it up? Simply disconnect the magneto and wire a phone line to it like a newer phone? Or is there something else that would need done?
You will need to add a capacitor in series with the ringer, so that the phone does not stay "off-hook" and keep the line busy. Probably a 1.0 uF capacitor or two 0.5 uF or 0.47 uF in parallel.
You will also need a source of DC current to power the transmitter. You don't have to get the large #6 cells that were originally used; you can use 2 small batteries or a "wall wart" if it produces 3V or 4.5 V filtered DC.
Youi do not want to disconnect the magneto. The first thing anyone who sees it will do is turn the crank. Maybe pick up the receiver first :D IIRC a diode will do that. I purchased a premade setup from one of our members to build one.
Quote from: HarrySmith on February 09, 2023, 03:04:58 PMYoui do not want to disconnect the magneto. The first thing anyone who sees it will do is turn the crank. Maybe pick up the receiver first :D IIRC a diode will do that. I purchased a premade setup from one of our members to build one.
so I'm confused, what would you do to keep it from sending power down the line?
There a a few ways to do it. I asked on the lists for the clubs and received a few ideas. The easiest way was the premade unit I bought from Denny. It cost less than $30 shipped. Here is his email: bdcacorp1@yahoo.com
Other ways include switches, relays & diodes. I can dig up those emails if you are interested. I have attached one of the documents I was sent using a switch. I did not use that as you would have to hold the switch while cranking the magneto.
Here is the post on my project:
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=26193.msg255156#msg255156
Quote from: HarrySmith on February 09, 2023, 04:09:27 PMThere a a few ways to do it. I asked on the lists for the clubs and received a few ideas. The easiest way was the premade unit I bought from Denny. It cost less than $30 shipped. Here is his email: bdcacorp1@yahoo.com
Other ways include switches, relays & diodes. I can dig up those emails if you are interested. I have attached one of the documents I was sent using a switch. I did not use that as you would have to hold the switch while cranking the magneto.
Here is the post on my project:
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=26193.msg255156#msg255156
ok, I'll look at that and maybe send him an email. So basically you just want it to where when you crank the magneto the power goes somewhere, correct? Could you connect it to the ringer on the phone and just make the phones ringer ring when you turned it?
Quote from: bdoss2006 on February 09, 2023, 06:51:35 PMCould you connect it to the ringer on the phone and just make the phones ringer ring when you turned it?
That what I did when I converted a LB magneto railroad way station phone to work on a POTS line but still have the magneto ring the phones original ringer.
The key point is to totally separate the magneto and its ringer local battery circuit from the POTS common battery circuit.
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=23408.0
Quote from: TelePlay on February 09, 2023, 07:09:32 PMThat what I did when I converted a LB magneto railroad way station phone to work on a POTS line but still have the magneto ring the phones original ringer.
The key point is to totally separate the magneto and its ringer local battery circuit from the POTS common battery circuit.
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=23408.0
How did you do it? Sorry if I seem stupid, I have never done anything to one this old. The other person said I would need a batter to make it work, what kind and how would I wire it up? If you wire it to make the bells ring when you turn the magneto, will it still ring when someone calls?
It's all in that topic, keeping in mind that the phone is different than yours but the topic offered as how to separate the magneto from the talk circuit, to absolutely prevent magneto voltage from being sent down the POTS line to the CO (central office).
When separated, cranking the magneto would ring the original ringer.
You would have to add a second ringer into the talk circuit if you wanted it to ring on incoming calls.
You could not make calls from the phone, no dialing device.
Given the completeness of your phone as found, I'd restore it to it's original configuration for display, not attach it to a POTS line.
Quote from: TelePlay on February 09, 2023, 08:28:01 PMIt's all in that topic, keeping in mind that the phone is different than yours but the topic offered as how to separate the magneto from the talk circuit, to absolutely prevent magneto voltage from being sent down the POTS line to the CO (central office).
When separated, cranking the magneto would ring the original ringer.
You would have to add a second ringer into the talk circuit if you wanted it to ring on incoming calls.
You could not make calls from the phone, no dialing device.
Given the completeness of your phone as found, I'd restore it to it's original configuration for display, not attach it to a POTS line.
what do you mean by original configuration?
Quote from: bdoss2006 on February 09, 2023, 09:10:52 PMwhat do you mean by original configuration?
As shipped from the factory.
And BTW, my project is completely reversible so the railroad phone could be returned to its as shipped from the factory LB operation by removing the dial, removing the ringer and re-wiring the magneto into the circuit. No harm was done to the phone.
It's always a good idea to keep things original. Modifications, if necessary, need to be fully reversible and well documented (inside the object!).
It would be hard to fit a dial in an acceptable way on the wooden phone discussed here. At least holes would have to be drilled and that would be a shame. My suggestion is to disconnect the ringer from the speaking circuit and connect it only to the magneto, like TelePlay did. That way the magneto can be cranked safely and rings the own bell. A second telephone then can be connected in parallel with the woody and both takes over the job of dialing out and signalizing incoming calls.
A relay based circuitry exists that allows using the magneto safely while the bells still ring on incoming calls. A source for a pre-made kit was mentioned before in this thread.
I agree it is always best to keep these antiques original. The phone I built was empty when I got it at a local auction so I built it with what I had to make it work. The box I bought was the easiest way to get the ringer to work both on incoming calls and with the magneto. As I stated earlier, there is a number of ways to set up the ringer & magneto depending on what you want it to do.
Quote from: HarrySmith on February 10, 2023, 07:50:28 AMI agree it is always best to keep these antiques original. The phone I built was empty when I got it at a local auction so I built it with what I had to make it work. The box I bought was the easiest way to get the ringer to work both on incoming calls and with the magneto. As I stated earlier, there is a number of ways to set up the ringer & magneto depending on what you want it to do.
I hadn't planned to put a dial on it, just get it to receive calls. So the thing you gave the email for to make the ringer work when receiving dials as well as the magneto ring it?
Yes. That box he makes allows the ringer to work both ways without sending any current down the line. Works great and easy to follow instructions on how to hook it up.
Quote from: HarrySmith on February 10, 2023, 12:44:45 PMYes. That box he makes allows the ringer to work both ways without sending any current down the line. Works great and easy to follow instructions on how to hook it up.
Ok, I may go that route, if I can figure out how to do it that is... ;D
You could also obtain another local battery set such as a Leich convertible desk/wall set, and connect the two phones together as an intercom. Then, no modification would be necessary.
Quote from: HarrySmith on February 10, 2023, 12:44:45 PMYes. That box he makes allows the ringer to work both ways without sending any current down the line. Works great and easy to follow instructions on how to hook it up.
would I still have to put a battery in it?
Quote from: bdoss2006 on February 11, 2023, 02:35:31 PMwould I still have to put a battery in it?
Only if you have it hooked up to another local battery phone (using it as in intercom between two rooms in your house), only if you want to talk to another phone.
The battery powers the talk circuit. Location in the circuit is in the red box.
If just for display, not hooked up to any other phone, no battery is needed.
Quote from: TelePlay on February 11, 2023, 03:17:21 PMOnly if you have it hooked up to another local battery phone (using it as in intercom between two rooms in your house), only if you want to talk to another phone.
The battery powers the talk circuit. Location in the circuit is in the red box.
If just for display, not hooked up to any other phone, no battery is needed.
would I need it if I connected to a phone line with the box to make it ring when called and when the hand crank is turned though?
Quote from: bdoss2006 on February 11, 2023, 04:01:46 PMwould I need it if I connected to a phone line with the box to make it ring when called and when the hand crank is turned though?
No, a POTS line is Common Battery (CB). The DC voltage needed for the talk circuit is provided by the Central Office.
Your old wood phone is a Local Battery (LB) phone that required batteries to power the DC talk circuit (3 to 6 volts typically) and the magneto generated the high AC voltage to ring all the phones on the two wire party line.
Lift the receiver to see if anyone is talking on the party line, if not hang up (close the talk circuit) and crank the magneto to ring all of the phones on the party line (2 long for Fred's home, 1 long and 1 short for Betty's home, 2 short and one long for Ed's home, etc.).
Cranking the magneto when two people were talking would not be a good thing, as would generating magneto voltage into a Common Battery CO line.
Search the forum for this stuff. There's 13 years of LB and CB information already posted. All of the above plus more.
Quote from: TelePlay on February 11, 2023, 05:09:14 PMNo, a POTS line is Common Battery (CB). The DC voltage needed for the talk circuit is provided by the Central Office.
Your old wood phone is a Local Battery (LB) phone that required batteries to power the DC talk circuit (3 to 6 volts typically) and the magneto generated the high AC voltage to ring all the phones on the two wire party line.
Lift the receiver to see if anyone is talking on the party line, if not hang up (close the talk circuit) and crank the magneto to ring all of the phones on the party line (2 long for Fred's home, 1 long and 1 short for Betty's home, 2 short and one long for Ed's home, etc.).
Cranking the magneto when two people were talking would not be a good thing, as would generating magneto voltage into a Common Battery CO line.
Search the forum for this stuff. There's 13 years of LB and CB information already posted. All of the above plus more.
Thanks for this information, when I bought this phone at an antique store, the lady at the register said that she remembered having them and they were 2 longs and 1 short or something like that. I had absolutely no idea what she was talking about, but now I know. I'll ask one more question then I'll shut up. I assume they didn't have local battery party lines like these in bigger cities. I don't see how that would have worked. I guess they had an operator in bigger cities, correct? And if I am thinking correctly you turned the crank to ring the operator instead of a certain person.
I think you are right on that, remember Sarah on the Andy Griffith Show? That was post magneto, most likely CB to an operator at a switchboard, but others can speak to magnetos ringing into a central switch board, don't know if those were LB or CB. I am not that into the history of that era phones changed from LB magneto phones to CB dial phones.
There are areas today (Northern California IIRC) that still uses magneto phones connecting 10 to 20 homes miles apart on two wires, some places even used insulated barb wire farm field fencing as the 2 wires from home to home.
Yeah, the directory back then was a list of neighbors with ringing longs and shorts so each home would know if the caller was trying to reach them.
Ask any questions as you learn more but run into a wall.