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Princess Transformers 701 v. 702 Hookups

Started by George Knighton, December 24, 2012, 08:42:56 AM

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George Knighton

This is probably another stupid new guy question, but I've researched and come away still a little confused.

Do I gather correctly that the 701's dial lamp and the 702's dial lamp are wired differently, so that a (modular) transformer kit that powers the dial lamps on my modular 702's will not power the lamps on my 701's even when the 701's are equipped with modular adapters?
Annoying new poster.

George Knighton

Quote from: poplar1 on December 24, 2012, 09:44:16 AM
Hardwired Princess sets had 5 conductor cords. The black and white went to the transformer. Modular sets have 4 wires so the black and yellow are for the transformer. So the yellow modular wire replaces the white lead on a hardwired.

Darn.  I was hoping against hope that I could have just one transformer design.  I guess that's why there are so many transformers for sale with no wires hooked up...they don't know if you're doing a hardwired or modular.

Thanks very much for your help.
Annoying new poster.

George Knighton

Quote from: poplar1 on December 24, 2012, 10:17:42 AM
You can use the same transformer setup. Inside the phone,  put the yellow wire where the white wire was.

: Boom! :

:-)
Annoying new poster.

George Knighton

Remove the white wire completely?

And put the yellow wire where the white wire used to be?

Annoying new poster.

Dave F

A note about Princess transformers:  The proper W.E. transformers for Princess phone lights are 2012A or 2012C.  Even though the 2012B and 2012D look outwardly identical to the others, they put out different voltage/current, and will not properly operate the light in a Princess phone.  The B and D versions are designed for Speakerphones and Rotary Card Dialers.

DF

poplar1

#5
CORRECTION:

On a hardwired 702B, black and white line cord leads are for the lamp.
On a  hardwired 701B, and fully modular 702BM,  black and yellow leads are for the lamp.

On both, the transformer connects to terminals 3 and 4 inside the phone.

BSP Section 502-701-100 Issue 1, Feb. 1970

"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

AE_Collector

#6
Quote from: Dave F on December 24, 2012, 02:12:45 PM
Even though the 2012B and 2012D look outwardly identical to the others, they put out different voltage/current, and will not properly operate the light in a Princess phone.  The B and D versions are designed for Speakerphones and Rotary Card Dialers.

2012 A & C are approx 6 volt while 2012 B & D are approx 18 volt.

A & B have solid prongs while C & D have folded brass prongs. Apparently the folded brass prongs stayed plugged in better than the solid prongs.

Terry

kleenax

I just HAVE to post this photo from 2003, where I found all of these Princess transformers in the old Train Depot find of mine. I was honestly trying to decide whether or not to scrap them or just sell them for $ .50/each!

In all honesty, I was "advised" to put a price of $5.00 ea on them, and over 1,500 of them were ALL gone (sold) in 1 week...... Oh, they were ALL either "A" or "C" versions ;-)
Ray Kotke
Recumbent Casting, LLC

Dave F

Quote from: AE_Collector on December 24, 2012, 05:57:08 PM

<snip>... 2012 A & C are approx 6 volt while 2012 B & D are approx 18 volt.

A & B have solid prongs while C & D have folded brass prongs. Apparently the folded brass prongs stayed plugged in better than the solid prongs.

Terry
Yes, early-manufacture 2012A and B transformers were made with solid prongs which didn't work very well.  Due to the weight of the transformer and the feeble friction of the prong design, they had the nasty habit of frequently becoming unplugged.  So, W.E. created the 2A Clamp which wrapped around the transformer and screwed into the center hole of the outlet faceplate.  An expensive fix, but it did the trick.  Later 2012 A & B, as well as their eventual C & D replacements, used folded springy prongs which worked much better and eliminated the need for the clamp.

AE_Collector

I guess the 2A clamp still allowed one to unplug the transformer if needed without having to go for a screw driver. Here in Canada, any sort of plug in device can NOT be fastened in with a screw. Plug in equals portable or temp connection and in the case of an emergency it has to be able to be unplugged easily. I frequently see transformers from the USA for things such as alarm panels that have a built in screw to fasten them into an electrical outlet.

Terry

George Knighton

People with one foot in the States and one foot in the Commonwealth will always argue amongst themselves whether Canada is over regulated, or if it's a common sense protection of common sense principles.  :-)
Annoying new poster.

Dave F

Quote from: AE_Collector on December 29, 2012, 12:42:07 AM
I guess the 2A clamp still allowed one to unplug the transformer if needed without having to go for a screw driver. Here in Canada, any sort of plug in device can NOT be fastened in with a screw. Plug in equals portable or temp connection and in the case of an emergency it has to be able to be unplugged easily. I frequently see transformers from the USA for things such as alarm panels that have a built in screw to fasten them into an electrical outlet.

Terry
Actually, the 2A clamp fits so tightly around the transformer that it really is easier to unscrew it first.  You might be able to yank out the transformer and still leave the clamp attached to the socket, but I have never tried to do it that way.

DF

AE_Collector

#12
I thought it looked like thin enough metal that it would just expand enough to let the transformer be removed but for us collectors, we woldn't want to damage it unlke someone who thought it was about to catch fire!

Speaking of which, at work I once inadvertently had a 2012B (18VAC) version of this transformer connected in parallel with the output of a much larger output 18VAC transformer being used to power many NorTel Companion speakerphone add-ons. Lunch time arrived so off we went for lunch (if it was a Friday, lunch on the job back then frequently involved a bar or pub and an hour and a half or even more). Upon my return to the telephone closet something smelled like it was burning and then i saw it. A 2012B still plugged into an outlet that was swelling up from heat to the point that it was larger than a hardball (baseball) and was approaching the size of a softball (baseball). I found a way to quickly unplug it without burning myself and now it is one of those work story's that I will never forget.

Terry

Phonesrfun

Sounds like a scene from a comedy movie or a cartoon.
-Bill G

Dave F

Quote from: AE_Collector on December 29, 2012, 02:18:28 PM
I thought it looked like thin enough metal that it would just expand enough to let the transformer be removed but for us collectors, we woldn't want to damage it unlke someone who thought it was about to catch fire!
2A clamp is springy, but quite robust at the same time.  Being more of a finesse type of person, I'd rather unscrew it first.
Quote
Speaking of which, at work I once inadvertently had a 2012B (18VAC) version of this transformer connected in parallel with the output of a much larger output 18VAC transformer being used to power many NorTel Companion speakerphone add-ons. Lunch time arrived so off we went for lunch (if it was a Friday, lunch on the job back then frequently involved a bar or pub and an hour and a half or even more). Upon my return to the telephone closet something smelled like it was burning and then i saw it. A 2012B still plugged into an outlet that was swelling up from heat to the point that it was larger than a hardball (baseball) and was approaching the size of a softball (baseball). I found a way to quickly unplug it without burning myself and now it is one of those work story's that I will never forget.

Terry
That 2012B would probably make an interesting paperweight!  The output voltage of the large transformer must have been greater than that of the 2012B.  Otherwise, they could have existed in parallel with no problem.

DF