This category seems like the most appropriate for this question.
I have a WE H3AD 3 conductor straight rubber-jacketed cord for an F1 handset. Unfortunately it has been painted over with what I guess is probably latex ivory house paint. Whether latex of not, it's flat, not glossy enamel.
Anyone have experience removing this kind of paint from a rubber cord? The cord is in excellent condition with absolutely no sign of conductor insulation or jacket cracking even though dated II-50, so I'd like to restore it and put it on a 302 which came to me with a 4-conductor coiled G1 handset cord with cracked jacket crammed in. Too crude for my tastes even if it were in perfect condition!
The phone is dated 8-38 with a III-38 101A IND. It has an early capacitor clamp, early ringer mount with 4 large and 4 small holes through the baseplate (rubber shock mounting alive and well), soldered cradle switch lead connections, soldered capacitor spade tips and metal housing with large cradle ears.
But it has a 10-49 ringer, 1941 HA1 rec. unit, 1953 F1 trans. unit, 5H dial with I-56 164A number plate with "1" still strong (not obviously worn) and 1957 vintage rubber line cord which is also in perfectly good condition, brown 283B plug with grasping ears and molded-in pins. I don't see any H1 marking or date on the housing.
So it is a phone which was probably serviced in place or refurbished numerous times, but the early base plate design makes it interesting and this rubber H3AD handset cord would serve it well.
I tried naphtha solvent and found it turned the rag black so I know it was removing rubber and seemed to have little effect on the paint. I'd expect acetone and methyl-ethyl ketone to be as bad or worse. 70% isopropyl alcohol did nothing. Suggestions?
If there are no photos of this early large ear 302 version on CRPF I will post photos. I don't know how the base assembly details compare with a small ear 302. ISTR some early version which had the IND rotated 180º so the winding faced the ringer.
I have had some luck with a hot water soak (leaving the contact ends dry of course), or soaking in a small cup of windex. Not 100% sure, but the ammonia in windex helps the paint loosen and lift off.
Although this was on a 60's 500 line cord, so the difference in rubber could yield different results. Most modern latex paints are susceptible to water and will soften. Oil based on the other hand can be more difficult.
I agree with Al, I have had good luck removing paint from a number of diiferent cords, including rubber ones by simply soaking overnight. Usually wipes right off, but a few I have had to scrub with the rough side of a kitchen sponge, pot scrubber I believe?
Quote from: Alex G. Bell on July 19, 2017, 12:08:37 AM
I have a WE H3AD 3 conductor straight rubber-jacketed cord for an F1 handset.
Neoprene superseded rubber jackets by 1949. New black 302s still had fabric jacketed cords until 1951 or 1952.
Quote from: Alex G. Bell on July 19, 2017, 12:08:37 AMISTR some early version which had the IND rotated 180º so the winding faced the ringer.
The coils were reversed starting in 9-38. Note that the writing is upside down on all 302s made from 9-38 - 1954.
If hot water doesn't work, try Denatured Alcohol or Acetone. However, you might want to test the Acetone out on a hidden area first, just to make sure it doesn't take layers of the cord's jacketing with it.
Quote from: poplar1 on July 19, 2017, 08:54:30 AM
Neoprene superseded rubber jackets by 1949. New black 302s still had fabric jacketed cords until 1951 or 1952.
The coils were reversed starting in 9-38. Note that the writing is upside down on all 302s made from 9-38 - 1954.
I don't know how to distinguish rubber from neoprene so I cannot say which it is. I use "rubber" as a generic term for both. Since this phone has a mix of dates and the handset cord is definitely an improvisation that was on there for a long time judging from its condition I suppose these cords are not original.
This phone is dated 8-38 on the baseplate and IND and has the later orientation with the opening in the core/the winding facing the capacitor. So apparently the change had already occurred by 8-38, at some time before 9-38.
Quote from: AL_as_needed on July 19, 2017, 06:40:35 AM
I have had some luck with a hot water soak (leaving the contact ends dry of course), or soaking in a small cup of windex. Not 100% sure, but the ammonia in windex helps the paint loosen and lift off.
Although this was on a 60's 500 line cord, so the difference in rubber could yield different results. Most modern latex paints are susceptible to water and will soften. Oil based on the other hand can be more difficult.
I submerged it in straight ammonia for an hour or two. That loosened the paint to the point where it came off with little effort by scrubbing with a plastic pot scrubbing pad with no mineral abrasive. The scrubber rinsed out kind of gray so some small amount of rubber must have come off, but very little. The cord looks good.
Thanks guys!
Quote from: Alex G. Bell on July 19, 2017, 06:13:12 PM
I submerged it in straight ammonia for an hour or two. That loosened the paint to the point where it came off with little effort by scrubbing with a plastic pot scrubbing pad with no mineral abrasive. The scrubber rinsed out kind of gray so some small amount of rubber must have come off, but very little.
That light gray could just be dirt on the cord and not the cord material itself. Ammonia is a great basic cleaning agent. Most soaps and cleaners are alkali based. Of course, soaps aren't as basic as (NH4OH) ammonium hydroxide so the ammonia would work faster. It's a great greaser so some of the gray may have been oils caught in the pores of the cord surface. Being an aqueous solution, I doubt it dissolved the cord.
Quote from: TelePlay on July 19, 2017, 07:10:25 PM
That light gray could just be dirt on the cord and not the cord material itself. Ammonia is a great basic cleaning agent. Most soaps and cleaners are alkali based. Of course, soaps aren't as basic as (NH4OH) ammonium hydroxide so the ammonia would work faster. It's a great greaser so some of the gray may have been oils caught in the pores of the cord surface. Being an aqueous solution, I doubt it dissolved the cord.
I agree generally, though dirt seems unlikely since the paint would not adhere well to a dirty cord and the ivory paint looked pretty clean.
Yes, ammonia is great stuff, I use it for a lot of things, keep a gallon jug of straight ammonia around and I certainly agree it was a much safer choice than a petrochemical or other hydrocarbon based solvent.
Given the black stain naphtha solvent left on the rag I saw no point in trying acetone. What rinsed out of the abrasive pad was nothing like that. May have just been a thin top layer of oxidized rubber removed purely by the abrasion rather than by chemical action.
Quote from: Alex G. Bell on July 19, 2017, 07:16:31 PM
I agree generally, though dirt seems unlikely since the paint would not adhere well to a dirty cord and the ivory paint looked pretty clean.
Yes, ammonia is great stuff, I use it for a lot of things, keep a gallon jug of straight ammonia around and I certainly agree it was a much safer choice than a petrochemical or other hydrocarbon based solvent.
Given the black stain naphtha solvent left on the rag I saw no point in trying acetone. What rinsed out of the abrasive pad was nothing like that. May have just been a thin top layer of oxidized rubber removed purely by the abrasion rather than by chemical action.
The black residue coming off the cord is very common and not alarming. I usually use Fantastic kitchen cleaner, same result.
When the cord has dried again from washing, application of KIWI shoe polish (paste, not liquid) restores a nice shine to the cord. Polish it off with a wool cloth, I usually use an old sock over the hand, it protects the hand from the paste and dye, and makes it easy to pull the cord through for polishing action.
Finally, spray the cord with a fine mist (!) of water and repolish with the same cloth. This seems to enhance the final gloss. I have some cords that look almost new after this procedure.
Quote from: unbeldi on July 19, 2017, 07:31:08 PM
The black residue coming off the cord is very common and not alarming. I usually use Fantastic kitchen cleaner, same result.
When the cord has dried again from washing, application of KIWI shoe polish (paste, not liquid) restores a nice shine to the cord. Polish it off with a wool cloth, I usually use an old sock over the hand, it protects the hand from the paste and dye, and makes it easy to pull the cord through for polishing action.
Finally, spray the cord with a fine mist (!) of water and repolish with the same cloth. This seems to enhance the final gloss. I have some cords that look almost new after this procedure.
Thanks!
Denatured alchohol will soften latex paint.
Sounds like your cord had latex paint on it. I highly doubt oul base would have come off.
Oil base paint, however, dries to a hard film, so maybe years old brittle oil base paint might come off in chunks by simply repeated bending of the cord to break the paint off.
I always use some Citrix stripper with some fine steel wool....Doug
Alex, have you tried using "Goof-Off"? It's pretty potent stuff, but might work.
Quote from: Victor Laszlo on July 22, 2017, 05:01:24 PM
Alex, have you tried using "Goof-Off"? It's pretty potent stuff, but might work.
That's a pretty potent solvent. I'd be afraid of what it might do to rubber.
Too late to find out what it would do to the paint since it's already removed although not too late to find out whether it would damage the rubber or neoprene (whichever it is). But since the cord is now on the phone I'll leave that as an exercise for another more diligent student.
For future reference "Goof Off Gunk & Adhesive Remover" is an interesting mixture of solvents.
Ethanol, 2-Butoxy- {Ethylene glycol n-butyl ether, <11.0 %
d-Limonene, <10.0 %
Oleic acid potassium salt, < 6.0 %
Benzenemethanol {Benzyl alcohol}, < 6.0 %
Inert ingredients, the remaining percentage, could be oils and/or water type dilutes/fillers
From my mixing up the old Brasso, I know Oleic acid in used to allow the mixing of oil and water solutions. d-limonene is a hydrocarbon oil chemically classified as a cyclic terpene. The ether and alcohol are both water soluble. The Oleic acid keeps them together in solution, they don't separate as oil and water.
So, both aqueous and hydrocarbon solvents working a the same time to dissolve paint and residue. Kind of like the Swiss Army Knife of removers. Works slow but will dissolve paint over time. I used it to get paint off of a D1 Continental suede base cover. Came out looking like new.
There is a "Goof Off 2" with slightly different ingredients and the MSDS sheets caution that both are about equal in toxicity. I read the cautions on these items as if I worked in the plant there they were made, if there was a large spill or as a fire fighter showing up to put out a major fire at the manufacturing plant.
A small bottle off the shelf from Walmart applied with a Q-tip or small patch of cotton to a small area for a short time would be a limited exposure with with the proper dungeon precautions (larger room or area with good air flow over the work area), Goof Off would be a good item for uses as needed.
Quote from: TelePlay on July 22, 2017, 07:04:20 PM
For future reference "Goof Off Gunk & Adhesive Remover" is an interesting mixture of solvents.
Interesting! Generally it's a bad idea to expose rubber to oils unless compatibility has been determined. For example different kinds of rubber parts in brake systems require different kinds of brake fluid. So in retrospect I think using ammonia was the safest thing, suggested to me by the mention of ammonia in Windex in a previous reply.
I have used GoofOff to remove graffiti and other stains from various surfaces. When I tried to use it to remove the residual glue from a sticker, placed on the dashboard of a family car, by an enthusiastic pre-teenage stickerer, it just created a 16 square inch area of glue where there had been a 2 square inch area before I started. It worked very well as a solvent, but also just as well as a distributor. The final product that produced good results was Mobil 87 octane on an old Grateful Dead T shirt.
Quote from: Victor Laszlo on July 23, 2017, 12:21:16 AM
I have used GoofOff to remove graffiti and other stains from various surfaces. When I tried to use it to remove the residual glue from a sticker, placed on the dashboard of a family car, by an enthusiastic pre-teenage stickerer, it just created a 16 square inch area of glue where there had been a 2 square inch area before I started. It worked very well as a solvent, but also just as well as a distributor. The final product that produced good results was Mobil 87 octane on an old Grateful Dead T shirt.
Goof Off Gunk % Adhesive Remover is but one in a long line of GO products, each with different mixtures and abilities. The 3rd one down is a Super Glue that contains ~80% acetone and ~20% N-Methyl-2-pyrrolidone, a very aggressive remover.
The GO Power Cleaner and Degreaser contains ~30% hydrotreated light distillate (could be napatha) mixed with a similar hydrocarbon. This would be similar to gas on a rag with gas being a mixture of light hydrocarbons with great ability to dissolve glue residue, as would be mineral spirits or naphthalene or even lacquer thinner.
Point is, nothing works for everything and yes glue residue is tough. Getting a price sticker of a glass product leaves a residue. On glass I go directly to acetone. If it's a plastic item, I start with mineral spirits. If that doesn't work, I move to lacquer thinner, then toluene, then MEK ending with acetone. But, in each starting with mineral spirits looking at the cloth to see if the solvent is taking off the material being cleaned, turning the color of the material.
PRO STRENGTHGO Professional Removers Aerosol
GO Professional Removers
GO Graffiti Removers
GO Pro Strength Super Glue Remover
GO Gunk & Adhesive RemoverDIY REMOVERSGO Heavy Duty Removers
GO Heavy Duty 4 oz Pump Spray
GO Heavy Duty Wipes
GO Foam & Caulk Remover
GO Power Cleaner & DegreaserHOUSEHOLD CLEANERSGO Rust Stain Remover
GO Rust Stain Remover Bathroom
GO Toilet Tabs
GO Rust Stain Remover Outdoor
GO Heavy Duty Grill Cleaner
GO Heavy Duty Hand Cleaner
GO Heavy Duty Multi-Task Cleaner
GO Heavy Duty Stainless Steel Cleaner & Polish
GO Heavy Duty Pet Stain Cleaner
GO Heavy Duty Glass Cleaner Aerosol
PAINT REMOVERS & STRIPPERSGO Pro Stripper Aerosol
GO Semi-Paste Pro Stripper
GO Semi-Paste All-Purpose Stripper
GO Liquid Sprayable Stripper
GO Pro Strength Adhesive Remover
GO Paint Stripper After Wash
Now, gasoline, due to it nature being a highly volatile fuel, contains a mixture of very light to moderately light hydrocarbons. The mixture as it comes off of the cracking and distillation towers at a refinery is not always the same. The intent is octane and flash point standards, not actual, specific ingredients. So, gasoline is a mixture of many different things that will each by themselves dissolve residue, many things you can not buy off the shelf due to their toxicity. The graph and chart below show one mixture of gasoline take one day from one source. I color coded the larger peaks so you can see how the chart and graph work together. The height of the peak is also directly related to the concentration of that chemical in the gasoline so the higher the peak, the more of it that is in the gas.
Gas is a great solvent for many things. It has the issue of the very 4 and 5 chain hydrocarbon (butanes and pentanes) light volatiles becoming airborne and in a high enough concentration in a closed environment with just the right mixture of oxygen (air) can cause an explosion. I've used it in the past but prefer to stick to the pure components by the quart off the shelf and paint or hardware stores.
So, for those who didn't know, now you do.
Hi guys (and ladies),
A while back I was given a big box of soiled , moldy , and paint marked phones. None were rare to any degree so I tried a few experiments with solvents , cleaners etc and the best thing I came up with was throwing the cases and cords in the dish washer ( top rack ) and using cascade complete detergent . Most of the paint came off "in the wash" or was easy to pick off. Removed the cases before the drying cycle but tried leaving coiled cords wrapped on a dowel and they came out both clean and with tighter coils !! Even did a 302 metal body and it did not harm the black finish but loosened paint residue.
Don't think I'd use this on any rare phones . Had one bad result... a gold 202 D1 imperial turned into a silvery phone it was already in bad shape so not a big loss.
Andy F K1WI
I normally throw painted cords in hot soapy water. There's no need to keep the ends dry, I just chuck the whole lot in there and leave it half an hour. The paint can then normally be scratched off with your finger nail.
For curly handset cords, coil it in reverse at the same time as you remove it from the water and work along picking the paint off. That way it will be coiled a lot tighter too.
See the video in the link below.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/Mo3d3WgnoZc (https://www.youtube.com/embed/Mo3d3WgnoZc)