wiring diagram for AE34 converted with modern components

[RotoTech99]

Dear Forum:

Please Find attached a wiring diagram with notes that shows the wiring for an AE34A3A Monophone converted to use a modern network and ringer.

Please note that it is a draft diagram, but it does reflect the information i was given on how the conversion was done by Phoneco, Inc.

I apologize for the diagram looking "rough"; If any forum member can please redo and clean it up so it's easier to read I will gladly thank them. I'm not very good with drafting wiring diagrams.

Thank you,
RotoTech99

[Jack Ryan]

May I ask why an AE34 needs "modern" wiring?

Thanks
Jack

[RotoTech99]

Dear Jack Ryan:

Thank you for the reply. I know every collector has their reasons why they either prefer to fix up an old phone with the old original parts, or use  modern conversion parts to make a functional phone from an old phone that they don't have the original parts for... I find no fault with either way.

I also know that original parts cannot always be found for one reason or another, which is, understandable.

I personally see no harm in rebuilding an older phone with modern components if you want it to be useable while
keeping as much of the old phone as you can, and it's ultimately up to them how far the conversion will go.


I also believe that if someone asks about the conversion if they want to buy the converted  phone, the seller should definitely tell them about it honestly, and then let the buyer decide.

I've talked with buyers of conversion phones that are pleased with the phone they bought who may or may not already have an old phone with original components.

I would also guess that there are more than Babybearjs, Phoneco, and myself who have done conversion on older phones; I can't say for sure, but I would definitely imagine there is.

Best Regards and Thank you,
RotoTech99

[countryman]

Agreed.
As long as those conversions are reversible I'm fine with them.

I found a wonderful and rare Fuld "Postmodell" from the early 1920ies, with a rare and complete dial and original handset, but missing all innards except the hookswitch. I completed it with more modern parts and could even adapt a 1980ies ringer I had to make it work - all without ruining what was left of the original phone. In the unlikely case original parts could be found the modifications could be reversed.

[rdelius]

I worked on many type 34 sets at COT. sometimes all you had to work with were empty sets or sets with badly damaged guts.The sets were refurbished foe people who liked their looks, not collectors. Type 40 sets were more likely to be intact because the ind coil was on the shell, not the base.

[RotoTech99]

Dear Rdelius:

One big thing I learned in the conversion instructions I was given is to do no more than absolutely necessary when doing a conversion and minimize whatever changes that entails.

As to the ringers used in the conversion, the ITT 148BA is most likely the easiest and most "flexible" ringer as it can operate satisfactorily in most older sets.

In my AE34, the ringer is at the front, under the dial mounting area with sufficient room for both the ringer and dial to function without "fouling" on each other.

Other single gong ringers like the SC or WE P-types with either the 165A or 165B adapting plate can be used as well; the P-types have a loud clear ring in both the aluminum and brass gong types that is similar to the tone and pitch of the original ringer.
(in my opinion.)

The bracket they're on provides for fairly simple mounting; one thing to note is to determine what space is available inside the converted AE34, and use the location which is least likely to interfere with other parts such as the hook switch and dial.

The plastic resonator mounted on the ringer bracket can be removed if necessary to allow enough space.

The volume control should be left at the loud setting.

The P1D ringer would also be a good choice as it is designed to operate over  the most typical ring voltage
ranges, and needs no bias tension adjusting.

The AE46 ringer could also be used, but it should be determined if it will operate satisfactorily once it's installed.

Ultimately, it's up to the person doing the conversion which ringer is used, but the ones I mentioned here work "best" with modern networks.

Lastly, although the network in my AE34 is a SC-425E-3T, other networks of the PC type like ITT's before they did major changes to the network and other components of theirs may also be a good choice for conversion use.

I think there is room for experimentation what what other modern components do the most satisfactory job as well.

Also, my ringer has "shock mounts" provided by thick rubber grommet washers under the mounting points to allow a more level mounting of the ringer, and better sound without rattle or clatter from the vibration of the ringer mechanism.

RotoTech99

[rdelius]

These type 34 sets came from  Bob Prosser in Wisc .Phoneco might have gotten the best ones.  They were stripped of some parts.in peices,rusty bases missing handsets etc .It would have not been worth the trouble to find the correct guts and the public  (non collectors) that bought them just wanted a nice looking telephone. I would like origional myself  and would build them if I had the parts.

[Jack Ryan]

Dear Jack Ryan:

Thank you for the reply. I know every collector has their reasons why they either prefer to fix up an old phone with the old original parts, or use  modern conversion parts to make a functional phone from an old phone that they don't have the original parts for... I find no fault with either way.

I also know that original parts cannot always be found for one reason or another, which is, understandable.

I personally see no harm in rebuilding an older phone with modern components if you want it to be useable while
keeping as much of the old phone as you can, and it's ultimately up to them how far the conversion will go.


I also believe that if someone asks about the conversion if they want to buy the converted  phone, the seller should definitely tell them about it honestly, and then let the buyer decide.

I've talked with buyers of conversion phones that are pleased with the phone they bought who may or may not already have an old phone with original components.

I would also guess that there are more than Babybearjs, Phoneco, and myself who have done conversion on older phones; I can't say for sure, but I would definitely imagine there is.

Best Regards and Thank you,
RotoTech99

Thanks for the explanation. I did not know that the original parts were missing.

Regards
Jack

[RotoTech99]

Dear Rdelius:

I don't know the full history of my AE34, but I do know from the person I got it from that someone before it got to him was trying to make it into a local battery intercom, and had a doorbell type 2" bell inside it for the signal.

They had taken the ring type connectors off the terminal posts as well, but left some of the wiring in place, including the original condenser.

The schematic mentioned Dan-Mac on it, so it might've  been something BECO was doing using old phone components; knowing their history, it would not suprise me.

As to the housing itself, it must be a later housing like the 34A3AB (I think that's the right designation) that can accept an AE Type 41 handset, but doesn't have the rear handgrip.... it fits the cradle nicely and fully depresses the plunger in the cradle.

RotoTech99

[RotoTech99]

Dear Forum:

I've been doing some experiments with my converted AE 34 in regards to the type of ringer to use with it, and the limits as far as internal space goes..

It's my finding that if there is sufficient room internally, you can use which ever ringer fits and performs the best for your purposes.

One ringer I would suggest if you want to get the closest possible to original ringer sound would be the AE D56515A; the ringer used in the later AE40 and 50 type sets.

I believe it would have a low enough profile where it would not interfere with moving internal parts, and give a good ring sound.

Perhaps the only other question would be finding anf using a strong enough capacitor to allow it to ring when used with a modern network.

RotoTech99

[rdelius]

What I have done for a type 34 ringer is find a bad or tuned type 34 ringer and transfer the parts from a earlier type 40 ringer.

[RotoTech99]

Dear Rdelius:

I recall that when Type 45 ringers were used in 80E sets that didn't have the capacitor mounted on the ringer frame, there was a capacitor strong enough to ring it that could be connected to the network; what about if the ringing capacitor on the modern network was replaced with that, and used with the D-56515A in the conversion phone?

I think the capacitor was an epoxy wrapped capacitor with two spade tipped pigtail leads; but I do recall seeing a number of Type 80 and 80E's that was used with, so I'm thinking it should work with the earlier Type 45 ringer without much difficulty.

I don't have any old Type 34 ringers I could convert to use, so my thought was using the D-56515A would be a satisfactory option for giving the converted AE34 a more close to original ring.

As I'm asking this question on behalf of my customer, I'm finding out what I can for him, and then try it with my conversions and see how it goes.

I do recall that the capacitor isn't that much larger than the existing ring capacitor on my customer's and my AE34's 425E-3T networks, so as long as it's installed correctly, and there are no other issues, it should work.

Please let me know what you think, and Thank You.

RotoTech99

[dsk]

As you know every one of us have our own way of solving things, and so do I 

Reading trough this thread I understand that your phone has been modified, but I'm still unsecure of what you have of the original components, and where you are going to connect it. 

Usually I prefer to keep then as close to original as possible, but sometimes I have to modify.  A transistorized transmitter to keep others away from complaining of the sound quality, a slightly modified speech circuit if a bridge compensattion remove to much of the DC, (necessary when used on some adapters)  a modified ringer circuit if REN load may be critical.  Sometimes the capacitor need a replacement.

Sometimes all the original components are missing or damaged as the capacitor mentioned above,  sometimes it just is far more easy to put in a completely new circuit as on the German phone mentioned in this tread.
dsk

[RotoTech99]

Dear dsk:

I believe what my customer wants to do is replace the existing capacitor on the 425E-3T network with the capacitor used with the Type 45SL ringers in the Type 80 AE phones.

It's not the capacitor that is usually mounted on the ringer, it's the one that has two spade leads and connects directly to the AE network terminals.

He wants to put it in place of the existing one to have enough power to ring the D-56515A ringer

The ones of that type I've seen are the epoxy and tape wrapped style, yellow in color with the two leads coming from it fitted with insulating sleeves and spades... I'll have to look it up in my AE practice, but I'm sure that is the one.

His phone is identical to mine component wise, with the same mini-ringer and network, and the original but modified switchhook.

As to the ringing capacitor, it should be simple enough to "switch" them out.

The D-56515A ringer should fit right in internally, it's a lower profile than the original ringer; the original ringer was mounted with an angular bracket, and the housing had enough internal space to accommodate it, so putting the D-56515A in shouldn't be a problem.

BTW: The D-56515A ringer is the early version of the Type 45 ringer that replaced the older low impedance ringer in Type 40 and other phones that used the older ringer.

It is basically the same as Type 45 ringers used in AE80's but the mountings are different. To an extent, the two ringers components can be interchanged.

I hope this better explains what he wants to do; I personally don't see why it couldn't be done, but I prefer to seek feedback before I proceed, or recommend something.

[rdelius]

The type 45 would take up less space but you would have to drill new holes