I am fully aware of the irony that my first post on Classic Rotary Phones Forum is a request for a touch tone diagram! Its a NE-2236QC, and the diagram is here, however, I'm either blind or its a poor scan.
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=8809.0
The network, standard 12 button pad, coin chute, condenser, 165A ringer, and a DB-15 cable all connect to the 10 screws on a terminal strip inside the upper housing.
TT pad: Black, White, Red, Green, Blue, Blue/White, Orange/Black, Red Grey
Ringer: Red, Black, Red/Slate, Slate
Network: H, L2, B, A, GN, F, K, R, C, L1, G, RR
452B Cap: Green, Green
Coin Chute: A, E, X
2 Jumper wires: Red/White, Yellow/White
DB-15 Male cable: Orange/White, White/Green, Blue/Red, Blue/White, Brown/White, Grey/White, Green/White, White/Blue, White/Orange, White/Brown, Red/Blue, White/Grey
___________________________________________________________
Lower housing is wired like a 233G:
Handset: Black to T, Red and White to TR, White to GN
Coin Relay / Mech?: Yellow to TR, Red to Y, White/Grey to R, White? to SL
Finally, the lower housing has a female DB-15, but it only has 7 wires and for the moment, I cannot find it. As I just recently hooked up a 233G to a 500 series network, it only required 5 wires from the upper housing to the network along with 2 more for tip and ring. Worse comes to worse, I get out the soldering gun and move wires on the DB-15 in the lower housing.
I guess I am a semi-novice.
Thanks in advance for your help.
________________________________________________________________________
It would be great it it worked as close to a payphone as possible, but I don't have the coin relay and it will be a while before I purchase Stan's mini coin controller.
Quote from: tanderson78 on July 09, 2017, 02:56:55 PM
I am fully aware of the irony that my first post on Classic Rotary Phones Forum is a request for a touch tone diagram! Its a NE-2236QC, and the diagram is here, however, I'm either blind or its a poor scan.
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=8809.0
Finally, the lower housing has a female DB-15, but it only has 7 wires and for the moment, I cannot find it. As I just recently hooked up a 233G to a 500 series network, it only required 5 wires from the upper housing to the network along with 2 more for tip and ring. Worse comes to worse, I get out the soldering gun and move wires on the DB-15 in the lower housing.
Yes, the diagram is too low resolution to read. I have an 17x11" wiring diagram for the NE 2236QC and will scan and post it shortly.
As far as I can see you have not stated what the actual problem is with this phone. Listing all the leads and terminals separately does not tell us what the problem is.
What is it that you stated above you "cannot find"?
You probably should not start moving leads around with a soldering gun. That would probably only complicate your problems.
I don't understand the relationship between a 233G, which has a rotary dial and uses an external network, having only 5 leads to the subset, with the connections to the upper housing of a 2236, which has the network and a TT dial in the upper housing.
Tanderson78
I see you made it here.
A few comments.
The diagram you referred to is a scan, of a photocopy, of a fax, sent to me 15 years ago by a now deceased collector named Bruce Crawford. Bruce was one of the most knowledgeable collectors I ever had the pleasure of knowing.
You are correct about that scan being bad. Go a little further into the thread and take a look at Reply#35. There are two scans that are much better.
The fact that you found a DB15 with a wiring harness doesn't mean it's for a Northern 2236. If it only has 7 leads it isn't.
It could have been used in a Western 1234 or any one of a dozen rotary and TT Automatic Electric model LPCs. Every one of these harness being different.
You will probably have to manufacture a harness. Not really a big deal. The hardest part if you are a purist will be finding the proper color wires.
Stan S.
Here's a full resolution version.
Quote from: Alex G. Bell on July 09, 2017, 04:41:53 PM
Here's a full resolution version.
Perhaps this combined and reworked version is handy too.
Quote from: unbeldi on July 09, 2017, 05:31:28 PM
Perhaps this combined and reworked version this is handy too.
Sure, for those who have access to an 11x17" printer. However many are limited to a printer with an 8½" swath and prefer to print two letter size sheets to maintain full image size. However using an ordinary printer with 8½" swath the 11x17" image will print with the least image size reduction on legal size (14" paper) since the proportions of 11x17" is much closer to 8½x14" than to letter size (8½x11")
Quote from: Alex G. Bell on July 09, 2017, 05:40:39 PM
Sure, for those who have access to an 11x17" printer. However many are limited to a printer with an 8½" swath and prefer to print two letter size sheets to maintain full image size. However using an ordinary printer with 8½" swath the 11x17" image will print with the least image size reduction on legal size (14" paper) since the proportions of 11x17" is much closer to 8½x14" than to letter size (8½x11")
Anyone seriously printing anything anymore ?
Quote from: unbeldi on July 09, 2017, 06:05:32 PM
Anyone seriously printing anything anymore ?
Personally I find it more convenient to work with paper and mark it up or highlight it as work progresses. I can't speak for others.
Here's a schematic too. Might be easier in some respects to understand operation and troubleshoot with this.
I couldn't find the db15 female, but it was in a bag with other parts. I had the upper housing apart a week ago, added a newer pad, connected a handset to the correct terminals, and was able to dial and answer. Then, idiot that I am, took it apart after trying to plug the upper housing into the lower housing. As the lower housing db15 only has 7 wires connected, I needed to know where the other 8 go. I'm gonna have to solder 8 more wires into the db15 and reconnect it according to the new scans you have provided. Not too much of a purist. At this point, I just want a TT 3 slot that works. I'll worry about coin relay later. Thanks for all the replies!
Quote from: tanderson78 on July 11, 2017, 10:30:31 AM
I couldn't find the db15 female, but it was in a bag with other parts. I had the upper housing apart a week ago, added a newer pad, connected a handset to the correct terminals, and was able to dial and answer. Then, idiot that I am, took it apart after trying to plug the upper housing into the lower housing. As the lower housing db15 only has 7 wires connected, I needed to know where the other 8 go. I'm gonna have to solder 8 more wires into the db15 and reconnect it according to the new scans you have provided. Not too much of a purist. At this point, I just want a TT 3 slot that works. I'll worry about coin relay later. Thanks for all the replies!
But the diagram only shows 12 contacts in use so it seems you only need to add 5. However I'm puzzled that it worked before being taken apart with only 7 of the 12 connections completed.
Often leads of the correct colors can be salvaged from a damaged "mounting" (line) cord for a 6-button Key Telephone Set. 50-conductor KTS mounting cords contain all possible combinations of the 10 colors. Even 30 and 34 conductor ones may contain the color combinations you need. If the telephone set end is intact the leads will already have spade tips attached.
And strictly speaking, it's a DA15. The second letter designates the size of the connector body. "B" identifies a body with 25 contacts.
It didn't work as it came from the ebay auction. I had to take apart the upper housing and replace the pad using a 2500 diagram before I discovered that the network was good. The Da15 included with the lower housing was just mounted with its 7 wires but not connected to anything, hence the need for a diagram. I'm very encouraged now that I know the network is ok.
At least I have made some progress today. I reconnected the network, coin shoot, capacitor, and wiring harnesses and am finally able to get dial tone and hook switch to work. However, I am unable to dial. I know that the pad I have is good because I took it out of a working phone and actually had it wired up to THIS network and was able to dial. Its my own fault for not taking a photo or notes as I took it apart. All of the diagrams everybody has hooked me up with have helped. I just need to figure out how the dial connects to the terminal strip or network. There still seems to be an issue with something as handset volume is very low and no bell seems to work. Any thoughts?
Quote from: tanderson78 on July 13, 2017, 09:37:42 PM
At least I have made some progress today. I reconnected the network, coin shoot, capacitor, and wiring harnesses and am finally able to get dial tone and hook switch to work. However, I am unable to dial. I know that the pad I have is good because I took it out of a working phone and actually had it wired up to THIS network and was able to dial. Its my own fault for not taking a photo or notes as I took it apart. All of the diagrams everybody has hooked me up with have helped. I just need to figure out how the dial connects to the terminal strip or network. There still seems to be an issue with something as handset volume is very low and no bell seems to work. Any thoughts?
Most dials are polarity sensitive. Try flipping the line wires to get the dial to generate tones but that will have nothing to do with the other problems.
I have not compared the original dial circuit with that of a standard dial nor the dial you substituted, which I don't think you stated the part #. It's not necessarily correct that they are interchangeable and that could be related to your lack of receive. Ringer is another matter.
Quote from: Alex G. Bell on July 13, 2017, 09:46:31 PM
Most dials are polarity sensitive. Try flipping the line wires to get the dial to generate tones but that will have nothing to do with the other problems.
I have not compared the original dial circuit with that of a standard dial nor the dial you substituted, which I don't think you stated the part #. It's not necessarily correct that they are interchangeable and that could be related to your lack of receive. Ringer is another matter.
As a matter of fact, the most common dials have a W-BL lead and no O-R lead, which is not used as shown in the drawings I posted. The W-BL lead normally feeds the receiver circuit from the network to the receiver, via the W lead. This could well be why you hear almost nothing.
What did you do with the W-BL lead?
Who is the mfr and what is the code of the dial you substituted?
I picked up a W.E. 2500 at my local Habitat for Humanity ReStore two weeks ago for $3.00. The 2500 worked just fine. The pad is a 72H3A dated 3-82. Red, Green, Blue, White, Black, Orange/Black, Red/Grey, and White/Blue wires. Even with the old pad from 1968 and trying 2 different hand sets, volume was very weak. I swear I was able to get the 1982 pad to dial! Plus, the diagram doesn't show what to do with the green and black wires. And of course I tried swapping line wires for polarity.
White/Blue was taped off. I thought it was a substitute for Orange/Red.
A Western Electric type 72 Touch Tone dial is an integrated circuit pad. What was originally in your 2236 was a pot core pad. The colors of the leads coming out of the pad are different. Get a pot core dial.
Stan S.
I have a few lying around but I think they need tuning. I'm on the road at the moment, but the original dial was dated 1968.
Quote from: Stan S on July 14, 2017, 06:52:34 PM
A Western Electric type 72 Touch Tone dial is an integrated circuit pad. What was originally in your 2236 was a pot core pad. The colors of the leads coming out of the pad are different. Get a pot core dial.
Stan S.
Even a pot core dial will probably not work just by matching lead colors because the original dial used the BL to feed the common R terminal of the NET to the receiver for switching inside the dial via the W lead, like early 7-lead dials. Most dials have 8 leads and switch the receiver via an isolated circuit consisting of W & W-BL. Most likely the BL
and W-BL leads of the dial will have to connect to R of the NET via the #10 terminal for the receiver to work.
Quote from: tanderson78 on July 14, 2017, 06:17:41 PM
I picked up a W.E. 2500 at my local Habitat for Humanity ReStore two weeks ago for $3.00. The 2500 worked just fine. The pad is a 72H3A dated 3-82. Red, Green, Blue, White, Black, Orange/Black, Red/Grey, and White/Blue wires. Even with the old pad from 1968 and trying 2 different hand sets, volume was very weak. I swear I was able to get the 1982 pad to dial! Plus, the diagram doesn't show what to do with the green and black wires. And of course I tried swapping line wires for polarity.
You cannot just assume that dials are interchangeable, especially if there are different lead colors, even if it worked in a different environment. Even leads of the same colors may not function the same.
IIRC, 72H3A dials contain a polarity guard.
Dates are pretty much irrelevant. Apparatus ID codes are all that matters.
Quote from: tanderson78 on July 14, 2017, 06:21:16 PM
White/Blue was taped off. I thought it was a substitute for Orange/Red.
No, W-BL is the input signal from the network to the receiver via the dial. You cannot possibly hear anything in the receiver with the W-BL lead unconnected.
I wonder why they kept the same wire colors but changed their function between pad models? Did anybody every make a chart that cross references tt pad model numbers and wire functions?
Anywhoo, incorrect pad and/or wiring aside, with the pad completely removed from the network and the DA15 wired per the correct diagram, I can barely hear the dial tone on this network, even after trying several handsets that sound fine on other phones. I am half tempted to use both the dial AND network from the ReStore 2500 and put this issue to bed. I didn't pay that much for this payphone and it's tough to expect every piece of 50 year old technology to work like it did from the factory. Any other thoughts before I shoot this lame horse?
Quote from: tanderson78 on July 14, 2017, 10:39:48 PM
I wonder why they kept the same wire colors but changed their function between pad models? Did anybody every make a chart that cross references tt pad model numbers and wire functions?
It's just not that simple. A telephone circuit is complex and a TT dial can be inserted into the circuit a number of different ways. So cross referencing the leads assumes all phones have the same circuit. They don't.
Quote from: tanderson78 on July 14, 2017, 10:48:56 PM
Anywhoo, incorrect pad and/or wiring aside, with the pad completely removed from the network and the DA15 wired per the correct diagram, I can barely hear the dial tone on this network, even after trying several handsets that sound fine on other phones. I am half tempted to use both the dial AND network from the ReStore 2500 and put this issue to bed. I didn't pay that much for this payphone and it's tough to expect every piece of 50 year old technology to work like it did from the factory. Any other thoughts before I shoot this lame horse?
As I said before, the receiver (and the transmitter) circuits pass
through the dial. With the dial disconnected those circuits are open so I'm surprised you hear anything at all!
The answer to your question is yes.
All the information regarding TT pads is in the TCI library. You just have to do the research.
The info below is courtesy of some very hard working TCI members.
Stan S.
I purchased yet another 2500 from an antique store for 5 bucks and am attempting to use its pad and network in my NE-2236QC. The pad is wired correctly, I get tone, and am able to dial. However, I cannot hang up nor can I receive calls at this point. I think it's an issue with the hook switch. The 2500 had 6 wires to the hook switch and I am assuming that's three pairs of wires that connect to the network. I need to know which wires from the NE2336 hook switch connections (R, BB, W, Y, SL, BBX, GN) connect to the 4228 Network's connections (L1, G, A, C, S, R) to make this work as a house phone. Several parts in the lower housing are missing, and, yes, I am aware that I listed 7 connections in the hook switch for 6 connections on the network.
On a network such as the 4228, the only significant terminals for the talk path are as follows:
C and RR are the input
GN is the output for receiver, B is the output for transmitter, and R is the output for common transmitter/receiver.
A and K are for the capacitor in the ringing circuit
L1, L2, G, S, and T are blind terminals -- just a place to connect wires. F is a blind terminal in a WE 2500 and for the dial filter in a rotary phone.
Are you trying to connect this network to the 2236 per the original 2236 diagram, or just rewire the payphone like a 2500?
Per the original schematic, none of the hookswitch wires connects directly to the network.
There are two sets of hookswitch contact springs in the payphone: Y and SL disconnect the line. GN and BBX disconnect the receiver.
The line connects to L (terminal strip) and Y on hookswitch. Opening the Y-SL contacts should disconnect the line when you hang up.
I guess the answer to the question is "both", sort of. I want to use the DB15 wiring harness to connect the 2500's network and pad in the upper housing to the lower housing. I am by no means an expert so I don't know how I should connect to hook switch to the pad properly.