Per my other post, I was leaving the Lancaster show when I saw this on a vendor's table near the door, struck up a conversation, and liked the price. After a quick test on the vintage network for a dialtone, I picked it up. I am presuming the RJ11 cable means someone has already converted it to plug-and-play for home use.
Anyway, here are some photos, would appreciate any info
Apparently this message board doesn't let me insert images inline, let me see if I can comment here
#1 Overall pic, for some reason a lot of my pics are out-of-focus, sorry
#2 Back of the unit
#3 Top of the unit, shouldn't there be a data plate there?
#4 Better shot of the case
#5 Back of the unit, looks straightforward
#6 Front of the unit, was surprised to see a 15-pin data jack in there!
More pics
#1 Its a Model NE-2236QC manufactured in 1971
#2 Could not get it to focus, but the repair tag is dated 9/4/91
#3 I'm guessing that 7-something on the left is a date code
#4 1970-dated component in the background, the data connector was made by ITT Cannon
#5 and #6 Looks like the original handset and logo
This is a bit of a heartbreaker: While the coin door has no lock, it won't budge. This is another indicator to me it was remodeled for home use.
I should probably make this its own thread, but, well, how do I pry it off with minimal damage? My theories are that its either super-glued or soldered in place.
Solder wouldn't stick, it would have to be welded.
I wonder if someone used silicone or something like that to hold it in place. I'd use a thin blade putty knife, or maybe even a cheapo knife one you don't care about, see if that gets it loose.
Or, make something that would fit through the hole, but you could either grab onto or something. A toggle bolt would work, but may not be strong enough for pulling hard.
I used a mini screwdriver (the kind used on eyeglasses) and slid it around the perimeter. Then slipped the wide part of the handle into the hole and pulled. It moved a little so I gave it a hard yank and off it came. Looks like super glue is what held it in.
1. Coin door, notice the 1969 manufacture date. Sourcing a lock mechanism now.
2. Like Al Capone's, there is nothing in this vault either
3. Closeup of the upper lock, its a Northern Electric 21B. Sourcing a key now.
I don't know a whole lot about payphones, but just for fun I ran a search on ebay and found this.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/202290823454
I think that is high.You might find the smaller 3 slot box with no lid and a single slot with a lid and put thrm togather
Nice phone, and looks complete on the inside. There are no top data plates on WE/NE 3 slots; only the AE phones of this era have them. The rivets on yours are in holes that would be used for top flags (information card frames), if so equipped. I agree on the coin box- $75 is on the high side, and a repaint is probably not what you want anyway. I like original, old paint, and coin boxes get scatched with every insertion and removal anyway. I did exactly as Rdelius stated - found a cheap 3-slot box only, and later added a single slot lid since they interchange.
FYI on your dates, NE used sideways bars to indicate quarter, thus your vault door was made in Q1 of 1969.
Thanks for the input so far!
Looking at the pics and some other parts, they are dated 1970 and 1972, probably assembled from whatever was in the parts bin.
I blew it out with some canned air, not a lot of dust. Unfortunately it blew off the little tag. It reads
FTC REPAIR SHOP
Date: 4 4 91 (handwritten)
I did find a nickel that was stuck in there (the little catch/chute before it drops into the coin box). This got me thinking I should try it out. Results are as follows:
* Quarters: Worked right out of the gate, gong and all
* Dimes: First couple of times they went down the change slot, then it started working, two bells.
* Nickels: No good. They get stuck by a square-shaped gate right behind that arm with "P349754" (Inside the blue box in the pic). I press the coin release button and the nickel drops free into the change slot.
Now would the original function have been to "hold" the change until the call was complete then drop it into the vault? Just curious why that nickel was stuck in there.
I think it is supposed to first nickel .When the 2nd nickel is dropped, both will be released. This set is made for 10 cent calls so this prevents 5 cent calls
Quote from: rdelius on June 11, 2018, 08:14:18 PM
I think it is supposed to first nickel. When the 2nd nickel is dropped, both will be released. This set is made for 10 cent calls so this prevents 5 cent calls
You called it, works fine with two nickels.
Once I get the lockset for the bottom and 21B key for the top, I'll reassemble it and do some more testing.
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I was thinking I would probably just put a plastic mug or a small bin just to catch coins, it doesn't need to be an authentic box.
On the other hand, just saw this ebay listing. Will this fit the NE, my under restoration WE, or my bird-in-hand AE?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Payphone-Coin-Collection-Box-Vault-box-for-Coin-Telephone-20-Available/173353632121?hash=item285cae8179:g:UNEAAOSwMM9a~eP-
That box is for a single slot paystation. It is to tall to fit a 3 slot.You can find 3 slot boxes with no lid cheep.use without the lid or get a single slot lid
Thanks for the heads up, will use without the top.
Knew it was too good to be true.
Got the 21B upper key and vault door lockset from the restorer. The 21B key works just fine. Going by the aging patterns, its been a long time since its that upper housing had a working key.
My problem is this: The vault door doesn't have screws, nor did the lockset come with any. What are the dimensions so I can go looking for them at Home Depot tomorrow?
Here are some modern NOS screws on EBay which should work great. You could also find similar cap screws like this in the hardware store - the challenge is finding them short enough. You can always take your lock and door with you to the store to ensure you have the correct thread size, pitch and length. It's a bit hard to tell from the auction pic, but cap screws use a hex head to install.
ebay.com/itm/161491779689
topic 8640, reply #37 (kleenax):
For NE and WE vault locks:
1\4" x 28 screws, 3\8" long
Upper housing locks, AE, NE, WE:
#6-40 x 1\4" long
AE 10-L locks for AE vault doors:
#8-40 x 1\4" or # 8-40 x 3\8"
I have Northern Electric lower locks. I have the correct screws which are slotted screws not hex screws. They also come with star washers if I can find them. If you decide to put a box in the phone first go in and make sure all the lower screws holding on the bottom of the phone are in from the outside only not the inside out. If you loose the lock key to the lower housing then you just take it off the backboard and pull the box out. However the box will not pull out with a lid on it from the back. I recommend no lid. But if you must put the lid on you can at least access the phone from the back. Never put screws in the bottom when you mount the phone on anything,because if you lose the vault key you are screwed. Only the 3 screws in the top. I have real 3 slot boxes for 35.00 with a lid. Older lid. The lid in order to operate once pulled out is locked. To unlock it turn the spring loaded slot underneath the lid in the middle you will feel it cock. It then goes in the phone and locks again when you pull it out.
Okay picture time! Bummer I can't put these inline
#1 Here is the package, vault door lockset and an extra B21 for the upper unit
#2 The new lock allows the upper to be set back properly; you can see its been without a key for a looooong time
#3 The good news is that I had some screws that fit left over from a big-screen TV wall mount kit. The bad news is that the threads were wrong. Still, it went for a test fit.
#4 Better shot of the vault, it looks like it still has the upper rails for a coin box.
So my quest today was to find the correct screws. The Home Depot clerk tried U.S., then Metric, then gave up.
Gotta give props to Clark's [Ace] Hardware of Ellicott City MD http://www.clarkshardware.com/
Ace is the place with the helpful hardware folks. The young man assigned to the hardware figured out that it had a different thread pitch, and fond bolts that fit, even if a bit long (3/4"). His solution was to add nylon bushings to make up for the space. So I had a solution for under a couple of bucks out the door. Got home, snugged them up, and tried the door. Its pretty solid
More pics
#1 The bolt-and-bushing solution
#2 The vault door is now an assembly!
#3 Close-up of locks and keys
#4 The bolt heads + bushings are flush with the lock, hopefully that means it won't interfere with a coin box
#5 The key works fine
Yea, home depot is not really the place to look for something's.
The screws are 3/8" long, looks like you had to get 1/2". Thus the spacers needed to take up the length.
But glad you found the right thread pitch that's the hardest part.
Even if you had located the correct length of that bolt (or cut the extra length off those), you may have found that the heads interfere with the side of the lock as you tightened them. Although they are not period-correct to your phone, the cap screws I pointed out will clear the side of the lock with no issue. As long as you don't have coin box interference, your solution certainly holds the lock fine as well.
Correct, on mine they were about 3/8" long.
Quote from: Key2871 on June 18, 2018, 09:39:47 AM
Correct, on mine they were about 3/8" long.
Mine are 3/4", or 6/8" long. The nylon bushings are either quarter-inch or 3/8" so that works just fine.
Just got my Surf City Garage "Killer Chrome" polish in from Amazon.
(https://surfcitygarage.com/media/product/4a3/killer-chromer-all-metal-polish-139-6c9.jpg)
Will post before-and-after pics.
This reply is a bit off-topic, but my head spun a bit when you mentioned Clark's Hardware in Ellicott City, MD.
I lived in Ellicott City, off Rodgers Avenue two different times (in the '70s and '80s) and have an old yardstick (probably an antique) that we have had around forever that came from that hardware store!
After moving exactly 20(!) times since last living in Ellicott City, we still have (and use) that yardstick here in Tucson.
Now, back to telephones...
Nick
Looping it back, I moved to Arbutus to attend UMBC in 1991 and never left.
I recall going to historic Ellicott City in the early-mid 1990s when Caplans still had a kick-ass antiques store. In fact there were a lot of little antiques and artsty shops, it was just a fun place to hang out but wasn't yet the cool/hip place to hang out it became before the floods.
Anyway, on Main, on the right-hand side coming from Rogers, was a little shop that sold vintage telephones. On the wall was a gorgeous chrome three-slot payphone. Thats when I decided I totally wanted one. IIRC, the price was $300 (roughly $500 today)
Sometime after, I picked up a "Frankenphone" from the Chicago Old Telephone Company (I have a thread about it in the Automatic Electric forums) but chrome was still a bit too expensive.
It was not until the Lancaster show that I managed to land TWO Chromed paystations for less than a regular one would've cost (well, maybe not after I get the shipping bill on the WE)
Google told me that Surf City Garage Killer Chrome is one of the better brands out there. So going to try it this weekend.
Original wiring harnesses and ind coils/networks are on eBay and might cure your frankinphone.You have all the important parts such as keys locks and coin chutes that were not on some Phoney set .All your other parts except ringer are AE.If you post a photo show showing the back of your set, I can tell you what series your paystatin is
Check out the thread here for my AE Frankenphone
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=20661.15
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Okay, got done polishing.
The instructions called for shaking the bottle vigorously for a full minute, and then spreading it around with a towel and buffing it off. It comes out as a pink liquid and doesn't smell too bad. I would get some on a towel, rub it in, then rub it off with another. I was getting a lot of dirt off going by how the towels got discolored with the buffing.
The good: It wipes on and off easily and works reasonably well as a cleaner
The bad: Its not aggressive like a polish, so it leaves scratches and pitting
The ugly: It really dirties/stains up the towels
I found it worked on the stainless steel as well as the chrome. As an experiment, I cleaned some copper pipe with it, it worked, but it turned the polish on the towel into a green sticky goo.
Here are the Before and After pics, with more to follow
More pics
Pic 1. I removed the bezel to better clean the front of the machine. I noticed the plastic was scratched-up, hazy, and had crud under the frame. I cleaned it all up with Zaino Z-14 Plastic Magic which really brought it back. The plan now is to print out the correct NE dialing card at work and fit it in before putting the frame back on
Pic 2. The chrome hook cleaned up splendidly, as did the shielded cable. Given the amount of dirt that came off the latter, I'm guessing its stainless steel.
Pic 3. Pitting on the front. Again, I think this was stainless or even brushed aluminum, definitely not chrome. It cleaned up reasonably well.
Pic 4. The top of the unit with the mix of chrome base, stainless coin receptor, and some kind of alloy front. I used an old toothbrush to get the polish in and really clean out the hard-to-reach places.
Pic 5. The other side of the unit. The base did not clean up as well as the rest of the unit, not sure if its that the plating didn't take as well, or if it was polished stainless to begin with.
I would recommend Surf City Garage Killer Chrome with the caveat to be careful since that stuff goes everywhere.
The good news is I have completed the last of my cosmetic restoration
The bad news is that I have an issue with the receiver cradle.
First the restoration:
(not pictured): I used Zaino Z-14 "Plastic Magic" on the receiver. Like the Killer Chrome polish, it removed the oxidation and brought back the shine, but it did not remove scratches. I was able to unscrew the caps and found the internals to be far more substantial than my AE. Everything cleaned up nice.
Photo #1: Along with the cleaned-up bezel and plastic, I printed out a correct Northern Electric dialing instruction card from here on a color laser printer. I kept the original cardboard backing
Photo #2: Was much easier to mount it horizontally
Photo #3: The finished product. I did not update the number, that can be left to the future owner.
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So now here is the problem, when I put the upper case on, even without locking, the cradle won't lift without help. It feels like its binding on something. With the upper off, the cradle pivots just fine.
Photo #1 The cradle assembly inside the housing, so far so good
Photo #2 The corresponding area in the upper housing, what is it hitting?
Photo #3 Thought this was just an odd sensor near the bottom, not sure what it is
In the spirit of "plug-and-play" I want to nail down this problem. It feels like its rubbing/hitting something, Wondering if something was knocked loose.
Need some help here!
There is a copper sheet metal tab on the the switch hook which is supposed to operate a roller on a gate in the coin track. Your metal tab is bent down at a 90-degree angle, which often happens with the upper housing is reinstalled with the handset on-hook. Carefully straighten out the sheet metal and then always install the upper with the handset off-hook. This will tilt the sheet metal piece up a bit so it won't get bent down. Here is a pic of another NE - see at the very top of the pic the copper metal tab sticks straight out.
The hookswitch has a tab that moves the nickel grabber on the coin chute. It might be binding
Quote from: RotarDad on June 25, 2018, 06:14:48 PM
always install the upper with the handset off-hook. This will tilt the sheet metal piece up a bit so it won't get bent down.
Thanks,
I never realized that.
Jim S.
RotarDad called it.
It looks like that piece had been bent down for a looooooooong time, given the corrosion on top where it was still horizontal (like it caught water leaks). It may well have been bent since the 1991 service if not earlier.
I bent it back, installed the upper housing with the receiver off the hook, and it went on just fine. Functions great now too.
That means the cosmetic restoration is done. Next comes function testing!
Your set looks nice. I had an AE lpc set, chrome. When I took it home it was grubby. But after a couple hours of cleaning, I too had a pile of dirty black rags, it comes with cleaning old phones. As for the scratches and pits, you won't get them out short of having it re plated. My AE had the same thing, but when it was hanging on the wall, it looked really nice.
I didn't really notice the minor scratches once it was up, I just enjoyed the nice shiny chrome. And my set came with Beige dial, and shroud, as well as a beige handset. But I called Paul Vaverchak, I needed a coin return bucket. He said "I have NOS Red dial/shroud Assembly's and your chrome would look fan damtastic with that on there, and I even have nice AE Handsets in Red too." So I got all that and WOW, it looked sharp. So be happy with your phone, remember it's not fresh out of the box, and it has some wear. If that phone could talk, I bet it could tell some stories.
I mentioned that in my very first post, I wanted to get a "resto-mod" paystation that was largely original, but updated and modified for home use. I took a gamble on this NE because: A. The price was too good to walk away from, B. At the show, I was able to test it for dialtone, C. Didn't have an NE, D. Three-coin and touch-tone is a rare combination, and E. The chrome looks freakin' awesome.
This one, to be honest, required very little work to get it looking nice. Yeah, some of the polishing rags came out black as well; Surf City Killer Chrome removed the dirt and oxidation but pretty much left the rest as-is and it worked in the stainless as well.
Have a Western Electric coming back from the restorer, I didn't see what the dial color was, but the handset was black. Its also chromed; and even after paying for shipping and restoration, it still clocks it at about market value.
I used semichrome polish, and it came out very nice. Are you having your western re plated? Or is the place just going to clean it up.
You could try a little more aggressive polish see if that does a better job.
Both machines will keep their original finish, the wear adds character.
I've used Flitz and Semichrome before, it works, but its kinda difficult to work with. I was also concerned because I was told the chrome plating on the phones is thinner than car bumpers. The SFG Killer Chrome is a great product that did pretty much what I wanted it to do.
To be honest I barely remember the WE (restorer told its actually an NE, so I guess I will post it here). I do recall it needed polishing really bad, the restorer said he might do it if he was in a good mood. We'll see.
This site has been awesome so far
Chrome these days, is really thin. The plating on these old sets, not really. These were built to stand up to all sorts of things. I never had any problems cleaning and polishing.
I wouldn't worry about it, unless you use something really aggressive.
Is 1971 old enough to have substantial chrome plating?
I had some Meguiars NXT All Metal Polish handy and used that on the back base, it cleaned up more of the stuff Surf City Garage didn't touch, looks pretty decent now.
I think McGuire's is the best. I used semi chrome because that's what I had on hand, yes it was a little ruff to wipe off, but it left a great finish.
And yes, I think the plating on the 70's phone is going to be heavy enough for your polish.
Keep in mind it's a real payphone, built to take the stresses of the real world.
Buddy brought by the coin box, yep, too tall. Even taking off the top didn't help.
Tried some Mequiars on the chrome already cleaned by Surf City Garage, the cloth came out light gray instead of black, so it did something. I did notice more light pits when I did, so maybe I don't wanna over-clean it.
Now I just have to get it to a jack to test out.
Wanted to give this thread an update. FINALLY got around to plugging it in and testing it.
Got a dialone
Dials okay
was able to hold a conversation with my sister.
The sound quality is not what I would call stellar, but at least its not staticy or buzzy.
Quick question: Does this mean the pay portion is disabled? I put in nickels when it was not powered up but nothing once plugged in. Just checking to make sure its good to go.
The relay in this phone would normally be powered by equipment in the central office, so nothing is going to make the escrow coin relay return or collect coins unless you help it.
Furthermore the small "nickel" relay on the coin mechanism is designed to engage when talk battery is reversed (when connected to an operator), allowing a single nickel to chime so an operator can request only five cents instead of the mechanism holding the first nickel so it only drops with the deposit of the second nickel.
So, to get reverse battery, you can use a grandstream HT801 Voip adapter - see link here:
https://www.amazon.ca/Grandstream-HT801-Single-Port-Telephone-Adapter/dp/B06XW1BQHC
If you want the coin mechanism to collect and return, there is a guy who makes a very nice controller that will generate the control signals. I think they are around 200 usd, so it's a commitment. He sells them as he makes them so if you do a saved search on this Ebay user, you will get a notification when he lists them for sale:
https://www.ebay.ca/sch/i.html?_ssn=gray-western
There's another thread here that discusses it:
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=21907.0