Subset for W.E. 1002 Handset?

[Nick in Manitou]

I have a W.E. 1002 Handset (also seen referred to as a WE 141W 70) and I was wondering if I could use a 302 base as a subset for it.  If it would not work with a 302 base as a subset, what would work as a subset for this phone.

Also, if anyone has had any experience with these...are they worth trying to make function at all, or are they better as great looking old handsets to just look at?

Thanks for any input.

Nick

[Sargeguy]

Supposedly any old subset will work, provided it has a hook to hang the handset from.  Getting mine functional is on my list of things to do.

[Phonesrfun]

If there are only two wires, then the answer is no.

[G-Man]

I have a W.E. 1002 Handset (also seen referred to as a WE 141W 70) ...

Not intending to nit-pick, but just so others will not start referring to it as a 141W, as previously explained that is the number of the receiver. It was also originally equipped with a 319 cord but we do not refer to the handset as such; instead the entire assembly is correctly known as a 1002A handset.
1002A For use in place of a regular local battery bridging or central battery desk stand or transmitter arm. Includes No. 141-W receiver, No. 267-W transmitter and No. 319 cord ............$6.35

[G-Man]

The original cord is described as being a 4-1/2-foot 3-conductor tinsel cord with green silk covering.

[Nick in Manitou]

G-Man,

I appreciate your trying to keep the designation of the 1002A clear.

It does have a three conductor cord as you state it should.  (The cord on this one is brown...with some white paint paint added!)

The cord appears to be in functional condition.  If I pursue it through to making it work with a subset and it works well enough to actually use, I will probably replace the cord with a repro.

I have no experience working with the wiring of an old phone, but assume that I could find a schematic on the forum that would assist me in finding my way to making this handset usable.

Nick

[Phonesrfun]

With three conductors you should be able to use just about any subset.

[G-Man]

Bill is (of course;-) correct and the attached jpeg contains the schematics for the 1002 series handsets.

Also, the entry shows a slightly shorter cord.

[Nick in Manitou]

Thanks Bill and G-Man.

I may be picking up a thrashed 5302 and if it is as scraped up as it looks in the photos, the best use for it might be as a subset.

Does anyone have any experience trying to talk and hear through a 1002AC?

That "WECo 1002 Handsets" jpeg is really helpful!

It is too late at night for this real time communication/forum posting stuff!

Nick

[poplar1]

According to the cited catalog, "These Hand Sets work the same as certain desk stands. and may be used in place of desk stands if required."

In other words, they work with the same sidetone subsets as a 20-B or 20-AL---295A, 334A, 534A, etc.

Could be used with a 5302/302  base (or anti-sidetone subset) if you rewire the subset or 5302/302 base per WR-C63.373.

[Nick in Manitou]

Poplar1,

Thanks for the input.  As a result of what you posted, I found this discussion in the forum: http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=8133.15

Entry #17 (by you!) just a few days ago references:
Bell System Practices
Station Installation and Maintenance
WR-C63.373
Issue 1, 9-30-42
AT&T Co

Followed by a schematic...which I assume would work for this effort.  Am I correct?  (I really have no experience in this type of wiring, but I am looking forward to gaining some.)

Thanks,
Nick

[poplar1]

The schematic is the correct one for connecting a sidetone phone to an anti-sidetone subset or 302 base.

The phone doesn't have to be rewired. As always, with a 3-conductor cord,  green is receiver, yellow is transmitter, and red is common. However, the instructions were incomplete. I have edited them to add the following info:

It is necessary to make the following changes in the 302 base (or 634 or 684 subset):

Move red capacitor wire  from C to L1
Move ringer wire and line wire from L1 to C

[G-Man]

Resent with working link-   
Using a sidetone instrument with an early anti-sidetone subset presents certain ramifications for the ringing bridge if a slight wiring modification is not made.    In the past it may not have presented as great of a problem but with the limited ringing current that is available on most VoIP routers it should be addressed if you intend to connect additional telephones to your line.

Page two of this download from the TCI Library explains and provides instructions on how to successfully make the proper connections.

C63.373 NYT Add. B Sidetone Desk Stand Limitations
http://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/document-repository/doc_details/11830-c63-373-nyt-add-b-sidetone-desk-stand-limitations-bsp-figure   

[poplar1]

That is certainly another way, which is referred to as "for anti-sidetone use,"  to connect a sidetone 20AL, 51AL, 102, 1002, etc. to an anti-sidetone subset. One advantage is that it retains the anti-sidetone properties of the subset.

I believe this may be causing confusion since the ringer limitations are well known when connecting the black condenser wire to L2Y. The limit is one low impedance ringer or two high impedance ringers (and no extensions) unless the telephone is modified per Steph's recommendations.


The disadvantages of this method--if you are planning to have more than one phone on the line--are as follows:


(1) You have to rewire the telephone in order to repurpose the switch hook contacts
(2) You have to install a varistor if you don't want loud pops in the receiver when going on-/off-hook or dialing.
(3) You need one subset for each desk stand or hand telephone set (or 1002).


The circuit I suggested, on the other hand, is shown in Fig. 1 of WR-C63.373, Issue 1, 9-30-42. It is not contained in C63.373 Issue 2, or even in C63.373 NYT Add. B, which is in the link referenced by G-Man.

The advantages of the WR-C63.373 Fig. 1 circuit, also referred to as "for sidetone use" are the following:
(1) No wiring changes are needed in the telephone, only in the subset
(2) Since the switch hook wiring has not been changed, there is no pop in the receiver and no varistor is necessary.
(3) You are not limited to one low impedance ringer (or two high impedance) and no extensions
(4) As with any sidetone subset, you can connect multiple phones to the same subset.

The disadvantage of this circuit:
The anti-sidetone subset is now being used as sidetone. (This means your own voice and any background (room) noise will now be louder in your receiver.)

Either method is an acceptable workaround when you have only an anti-sidetone subset (634A, 684A, 495BP, 302/5302 base) and a sidetone telephone, which has only 3 leads in the desk stand cord or mounting cord. It's a matter of preference whether you want to retain the anti-sidetone circuit of the subset by rewiring the telephone, or keep the phone wiring original and use a sidetone circuit. Personally, I prefer the latter. Using the WR- Fig. 1 ckt., you can you easily swap subsets  later on if you find the correct one (295A, 334A, 534A, 584A). You can also use this method with 202s if you have only a 3-conductor mounting cord available instead of a 4-conductor normally used with a 634/684/302 base.

You are not limited to one low impedance ringer when using the (sidetone) WR- Fig. 1, unless you use the (anti-sidetone) circuit shown in the NYT addendum (which is the same as Fig. 2 in the WR- BSP) without also rewiring the switch hook.

Resent with working link-   
Using a sidetone instrument with an early anti-sidetone subset presents certain ramifications for the ringing bridge if a slight wiring modification is not made.    In the past it may not have presented as great of a problem but with the limited ringing current that is available on most VoIP routers it should be addressed if you intend to connect additional telephones to your line.

Page two of this download from the TCI Library explains and provides instructions on how to successfully make the proper connections.

C63.373 NYT Add. B Sidetone Desk Stand Limitations
http://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/document-repository/doc_details/11830-c63-373-nyt-add-b-sidetone-desk-stand-limitations-bsp-figure   

[G-Man]

 [font=]Thanks popular1 for the expanded explanation regarding the differing BSPs.[/font]