we need a section on this forum for switchboard units. (IE schematics, manuals, etc.) I know there is a section for CO equipment, does switchboards fall into that section?
Quote from: Babybearjs on March 28, 2012, 11:44:35 AM
we need a section on this forum for switchboard units. (IE schematics, manuals, etc.) I know there is a section for CO equipment, does switchboards fall into that section?
Yes, switchboards would qualify as C.O. equipment...
Dave
Not to be contrary, but I think due to first the fact that switchboards are a very specialized sort of thing and second that there are so many different variations and configurations that a special switchboard section would be too specialized. Especially if the expectation is for documents, schematics, and manuals. You could fill a whole library with that kind of documentation. I think that is the kind of niche the TCI document repository/library is trying to fill.
www.telephonecollectors.info
Just my two cents.
Hi Bill:
Essentially what I was saying. It would make more sense to include switchboards as C.O. Equipment rather than as its own category. Insofar as manuals and schematics, the TCI repository (or as someone put it the other day, the Supository) would be a more appropriate place for large files, and already has a number of them. I have drawings on my site for a lot of the 1200 series boards (1240, etc.), and there are a ton of 555 documents on TCI.
www.islandregister.com/phones/phonelink.html
Dave
The document library is seemingly going through some growing pains, but I have high hopes for it.
I do know that finding stuff there can be tricky given the rather simple-minded search engine it has but still it is better than what was there before.
I have a 552, and someday I hope to get a 555 which I think would be a more friendly and easier to demo board.
I had not been to your site for a while, and maybe never to that page. That is a good reference, I'll have to bookmark
thanks guys... I do agree that the library is the best place for all that stuff! so, it is considered CO equipment... thanks. since I just won my first switchboard part on ebay it was worth asking about. once I get the part, I'll have to get it identified.... and from the pics, rewire the whole thing.... this is going to be fun :-[ (I hate soldering) thanks again! John
Ok, now let me understand.... You bought switchboard parts that you are going to wire up......and you hate soldering......
Hmmm At least you will get some practice.
I'm reluctant to create a section for switching. As Bill said the possibilities are endless with respect to subjects to be covered. I have considered creating another Forum strictly for switchers. I mentioned this last year to another member who was interested. I have purchased a domain name but just don't know if there would be enough interest as many switchers communicate via the TCI list. If those of you that are interested believe a separate forum for switchers would be helpful, let me know.
As a Switch person i do support a separate forum.
Switching, transmission and outside plant is a very complex field.
From my reading of this forum 95% are only interested in repairing their garage sale phones. There is a few that are collectors as members. Central Office( switchers) is way to complex and out of the scope of this forum. I believe less that 1% of forum members have any interest in Key systems or switching. Please understand I'm not
being judgemental.
Phil
Quote from: WECO355AMAN on March 28, 2012, 09:30:55 PM
As a Switch person i do support a separate forum.
Me, too.
Dave
Phil is probably fairly close to being accurate with his numbers.
I support a seperate switchers forum if it uses this same or similar forum software.
Switchboards are either CO equipment or PBX equipment though the Answering Service variety may not officially be PBX's and they aren't CO.
Then there is "key equipment" which is a sub category of switching equipment though it has a lot closer relationship to telephone sets than other forms of switching equipment.
Terry
wow, got you guys talking! :o anyway, thanks for the input
Hi All:
This is going to be interesting. Though my demo switch is built from North American Strowger switches, PEI's first automatic switch was made by England's ATE and installed in 1950. I have managed to find one ATE selector, but all of the Island's ATE switches went both to the scrappers, and a few to Newfoundland to maintain their old switches there in 1988 when a NT DMS-100 replaced the 1950 strowger system.
Well, I got a phone call from an Island Tel retiree. He had saved a number of the Summerside switches, including in his words, (ITE English Strowger step x step selectors, one being a multi-party final with a second stage for a ring code; line-finders, 1st selectors.)
He, and another Island Tel retirees are going to call me at the beginning of the week, and bring them all. The multi party final is apparently quite interesting, and will be coming down with the rest of the stuff....
I may be able to build up another Demo system using the original 1950 switch parts!
Can't wait. As Monday is the delivery day for one of the payphones I am expecting for the museum also, Monday will be a banner day!
Below, photo of the Type 51 switch I currently have.
Second Photo, a view towards the switch I built up from North American (mostly Northern Electric - the beige ones) switches for demos in the museum.
Dave
I was watching "The secret life of machines - The telephone" the other night, and was watching the "Click & Bang" strowgers in action, and it made me wonder if there are any of those exchanges anywhere in the UK left in full service, or if everything is all digital with no mechanical exchanges for us regular people... ???
I have heard that the military keep mechanical and analogue stuff in service though, just as they keep old vehicles on the roads, as it could be put into service if something major like a nuke ever happened (as such a thing could wipe out electronic chips, like that used for TV transmitters & receivers, phone exchanges, radio and all that), though it is highly unlikely such a thing could happen in this day and age, it could be an interesting source for spares if they ever "upgrade" their emergency equipment... :D
Quote from: DavePEI on March 30, 2012, 10:23:44 AM
Well, I got a phone call from an Island Tel retiree. He had saved a number of the Summerside switches, including in his words, (ITE English Strowger step x step selectors, one being a multi-party final with a second stage for a ring code; line-finders, 1st selectors.)
I may be able to build up another Demo system using the original 1950 switch parts!
For this, I am going to need a dial tone generator, and unless I am very lucky and the guy also kept a panel of l/co relays for the linefinder, I will also need these. I have banks.
Another thing I will need are three shelf jacks to fit the British switches - N.A. ones won't fit.
Another 48 volt 7 amp power supply has been ordered. Other than these items, I think I will have everything needed for the project except for a rack.
Anyone have any of these parts available?
Photo below of an AEI type 51 switch similar to a couple of the selectors coming. Others apparently are older, and have no release magnet. Interesting...
Dave
Quote from: Dennis Markham on March 28, 2012, 07:38:38 PM
I'm reluctant to create a section for switching.
As Bill said the possibilities are endless...
I have purchased a domain name but just don't know if there would be enough interest...
If those of you that are interested believe a separate forum for switchers would be helpful, let me know.
So Dennis, how about an "experimental" board for switching discussions? I don't see it really going crazy but rather it would be a place to organise the limited number of switching discussions that have already taken place and will take place here in the future.
My opinion would be a board like the PayTelephone board with a few sub-categories:
- Central Office
- PBX - Private Branch Exchange
- Key Telephone Systems
Other possible sub categories could include:
- "PAX - Intercom System" rather than having those systems land in with PBX.
- "Electronic Key Systems" which woud then allow the above "Key Telephone Systems" to be changed to a more specific name such as "1A2 / 10A2 Key Telephone Systems (and predecesors)". Personally I would call this "AKT - Automatic Key Telephone" as opposed to "EKT - Electronic Key Telephone" but I don't know that non AE people really see that logic to the naming of Key Systems.
CO and PBX categories *could* be further broken down further into Magneto, Common Battery & Automatic (or even further to Strowger, Cross Bar & Electronic). But maybe in the interest of "keeping it small and under control" these sub category possibilities should NOT be implemented at this time as it could always be done in the future.
What do those who are interested in switching think of this idea?
Terry
Hi Terry:
I like the idea.
Dave
Thank you, Terry for the detailed thoughts on the Switching section. I have also heard from a couple of others regarding this. I am strongly thinking of creating a separate web address and uploading another Forum strictly for Switching discussions. I am thinking of a "sister site" to Classic Rotary Phones. It's been more than a year since I purchase (and renewed) a domain address for that purpose. One member has expressed an interest in being actively involved in this project and I will confer with him about it.
If that doesn't pan out then I will create another "Category" as you have suggested here, Terry.
Again, thank you for your input on this. Additional comments from other members are welcome.
~Dennis
Okay, a seperate site would likely allow for a lot more possibilities and more detail.
Keep us informed.
Terry
I guess it had been easier to get help when I got my mechanical PAX. But I got the help as the forum are now. End even when my PBX are more likely to be 64 than 84 years old, and telephones are my main interest, its really amazing to get that old PAX up and running, with all its sounds, moving parts, buzzers an no semiconductors at all.
A section for all kinds of multiline equipment would be a way to sort it, I have no clue about how detailed it should be.
What do I have, how should I sort it as a non specialiced switcher
I have a 2 Field exchange from the Norwegian forces. Both German made WWII and 197x
I have 3 different PBX's and I have the Norwegian 19 lines PAX probably from 1948.
dsk
Quote from: d_s_k on April 01, 2012, 03:36:12 AM
I have a 2 Field exchange from the Norwegian forces. Both German made WWII and 197x
I have 3 different PBX's and I have the Norwegian 19 lines PAX probably from 1948.
dsk
For now, and until a Switching Forum is set up, I will suggest a couple of places where you can seek help. The problem with me, is I am most familiar with North American Strowger, but if you are having issues with it that I might be able to help with, I will certainly try to help. So, if you are having problems, post them - hopefully they can be moved over into a new forum later.
For help now, let me suggest a couple of Google Groups in which you will find help:
centraloffice-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Strowger-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Edit:TCI - singingwires-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
These are the subscription addresses, and they will probably only help out only with your PAX. If you already belong to one or more Yahoo Groups such as TCI's Singing wires, you can add Centraloffice and Strowger via My Groups in the top right hand corner of the Yahoo Groups page.
Now, the advantage of these groups for you will be that a large percentage are using European equipment. I hate to suggest those if we are going to have a board here, but until it is here, it is about all I can do. But do post your problems with them here - hopefully one of us can help!
To me, switching is part of collecting phones. I built my Strowger switch to demonstrate how an exchange works to museum visitors, and it has been one of the most popular displays in the museum, and of course have 6 KSUs operational from several manufacturers. One of these, a Norstar 6x16 is the main museum phone system. I also have a Korean War vintage SB-22/PT military switchboard and field phones, plus an interesting little pocket switchboard, for the military visitors which can be demonstrated, plus an operational 555 switchboard and a magneto 1240 board connected to my magneto sets.
Dave
Quote from: Dennis Markham on March 28, 2012, 07:38:38 PM
I'm reluctant to create a section for switching. As Bill said the possibilities are endless with respect to subjects to be covered. I have considered creating another Forum strictly for switchers. I mentioned this last year to another member who was interested. I have purchased a domain name but just don't know if there would be enough interest as many switchers communicate via the TCI list. If those of you that are interested believe a separate forum for switchers would be helpful, let me know.
Anything happening on this front?
Dave
Recently I was going to ask Dennis about it but I didn't dare with all the other stuff I've been talking to him about!
Terry
While the centraloffice listserve is ok, please be advised that very little discussion takes place and of the little that does the topics are mostly about area code re-alignments and telephone network sounds by Evan Doorbell that are re-worked into montages blended with old-school music by Kitty Carlisle.
Here is a traffic summary of centraloffice discussions for this year-
Jan- 28
Feb- 33
Mar- 146
Apr- 102
May- 84
Jun- 61
Jul- 09
Aug- 08
Sep- 20
Oct- 13
Nov- __
Dec- __
By far, the TCI host the most switching discussions; more than centraloffice or the Strowger listserves. In fact, IIRC, DSK received help for his pabx from TCI members.
Quote from: G-Man on October 22, 2012, 01:28:57 AM
While the centraloffice listserve is ok, please be advised that very little discussion takes place and of the little that does the topics are mostly about area code re-alignments and telephone network sounds by Evan Doorbell that are re-worked into montages blended with old-school music by Kitty Carlisle.
While Central Office is ok, what we are suggesting is very different from the listserve. The listserve format does not encourage the type of discussions we get going here on CPRF, and this format is much more friendly to new users. It is a more conversational format where people don't feel they have to live up to the expectations of the so-called experts.
Both have their place, but as you can see here, there are more postings on a variety of topics than on the other listserves in a given day, and a freedom to post dumb questions, etc. Not everyone can be an expert, and a discussion area for switching certainly has a place.
Don't take this as a criticism of listserves - I belong to many of them, but I find CRPF a welcome change from them. One of the best changes are, photos, etc. are encouraged, and for the less knowledgeable people, the ability for them to post a photos showing what they are discussion directly with the message they leave is definitely an advantage.
Dave
QuoteWhile Central Office is ok, what we are suggesting is very different from the listserve. The listserve format does not encourage the type of discussions we get going here on CPRF, and this format is much more friendly to new users. It is a more conversational format where people don't feel they have to live up to the expectations of the so-called experts.
Both have their place, but as you can see here, there are more postings on a variety of topics than on the other listserves in a given day, and a freedom to post dumb questions, etc. without ridicule. Not everyone can be an expert, and a discussion area for switching certainly has a place.
I was not questioning the idea of creating a new forum for switchers but merely pointing out that neither of the listserves you directed those interested in the subject to are very active with discussions on the actual aspect of switching and it would have been better to have pointed them to the TCI listserve which has by far the most knowledgeable switchers community amongst its members, until the CRPF can get there own forum up and running.
In the meantime they would be the natural selection for up an coming switchers. Most of the "so-called experts" on the TCI forum were been trained and employed to maintain pbx and central office switches.
They have helped countless newbies in building demonstration switches and have been donated equipment worth a considerable amount of money in order to help novice switchers. I don't believe it helps to criticize their efforts since I don't recall newcomers ever being chastised for asking dumb questions. ISTR your asking rookie questions and having them answered cheerfully by the "so-called experts" without you being made to feel unwelcome. And through the years haven't members of the TCI and ATCA listserves freely donated resources to you for your displays?
I suspect that once the CRPF switching forum is up and running they will want to join and help out novices in any manner that they can.
I never once complained about the TCI list. Read above. Yes, each format has its own benefits. TCI is incredible, and so is ATCA. No-one does a better job of providing documentation than TCI through the TCI documentation library.
However, yes, I have been lambasted repeatedly by one particular member of TCI who didn't approve of my questions. So have others, and many by the same person, many of whom belong to the forum, who have confided that fact to me in personal messages. Many of those for that reason have left the list serves finding this a more comfortable format for them.
Many members of the lists also are members here. Both formats have their place. A separate forum type list can only complement what is available on the established lists. It gives a place where discussions can be carried on freely on related subjects, and these conversations remain available for one who had a similar question later. Also, the established lists have a clunky search engine, which can provide some information on prior postings, but the forum format is much easier to search.
Note, above, I referred people to a couple of other lists. I am not anti-list, particularly not against the TCI or ATCA lists. They have their place.
Instead, I recommended two other lists, primarily since the person I was replying to was looking for information on European equipment, and which would put them in touch with those knowledgeable about that equipment. TCI is probably the best about North American equipment, but that wasn't the question in consideration.
I remember years ago when this forum was proposed the messages against it, and look what a wonderful boon it has been for collectors. In fact, as a result of those comments, I delayed joining here, and lost out on a couple of years of the forum's operation as a result. Think back, you will remember the discussions.
However, there are people who don't and won't belong to the established lists for various reasons, and who can truly use an open forum format such as this.
Dave
Please re-read my post and you will see that I have not discussed the merits of, nor criticized either this or the proposed new list since I am supportive of both concepts.
It appears that TCI members continue to provide you and others with whatever resources they can provide, frequently without charge and any perceived slight that your feel you have received on the does not seem to have deterred you from continuing to request equipment donations and support for your projects so it appears as if it was not too horrible of an experience. Of course this is good since you are providing a very worthwhile benefit to the citizens of your community and this is the reason we belong to and continue perpetuate our groups.
I don't recall anyone criticizing the formation of the CRPF but I will search the archives in case I missed it. I would be surprised that anyone would give such criticism any credence since it is a very worth forum for not only novices but for the more seasoned collectors as well. I am sure if it happened the person who was critical would have been dismissed by the vast majority of the TCI/ATCA membership.
I for one, am very pleased with the support and knowledge that I have gained from the CRPF as well as from the TCI, ATCA and a number of other listserves. While there may be a few bad apples in any group, I don't think of any of those groups as being unfriendly to novices.
Also, since the TCI includes a number of European switchers in their membership fold and have in the past assisted those with equipment manufactured outside of the North American continent, the TCI and their separate Switchers Quarterly organization, should have been included in the short list along with the other groups you have mentioned. Of course as you suggested this would be on an interim basis until the CRPF switching forum is created.
Quote from: G-Man on October 22, 2012, 05:34:38 AM
Any perceived slight that your feel you have received on the TCI listserve does not seem to have deterred you from continuing to request equipment donations and support for your projects. It appears that their members continue to provide you and others with whatever resources they can provide, frequently without charge. Of course this is good since you are providing a very worthwhile benefit to the citizens of your community and this is the reason we belong to and continue perpetuate our groups.
I don't recall anyone criticizing the formation of the CPRG but I will search the archives in case I missed it. I would be surprised that anyone would give such criticism any credence since it is a very worth forum for not only novices but for the more seasoned collectors as well. I am sure if it happened the person who was critical would have been dismissed by the vast majority of the TCI/ATCA membership.
The problems I have had by that particular member have been carried out in personal messages after the fact - not on the listserve.
Look back - I have never complained about TCI or the vast majority of its members. You appear to be looking for something wrong in all of my postings, and there isn't.
TCI is a wonderful listserve, and by and large its members are very helpful. I have never said that they aren't. And, yes, I still use and support TCI and continue to be a member.
Dave
QuoteTCI is a wonderful listserve, and by and large its members are very helpful. I have never said that they aren't. And, yes, I still use and support TCI and continue to be a member.
Dave
I'm glad we agree that the CRPF and TCI are both good groups and compliment each other.
Quote from: G-Man on October 22, 2012, 05:48:45 AM
QuoteTCI is a wonderful listserve, and by and large its members are very helpful. I have never said that they aren't. And, yes, I still use and support TCI and continue to be a member.
Dave
I'm glad we agree that the CRPF and TCI are both good groups and compliment each other.
We always have, G-Man. TCI was the first group I ever belonged to and will be the last one I leave. I have recommended it to many museum visitors and collectors over the years. I just wish I was in better health and could travel to the shows. I have many great friends amongst the TCI membership, and as you say, I have always have had great support from the majority of its membership.
I was just trying to point out there is an advantage to multiple formats, and in the reference to the other lists, it was just because the particular equipment referred to, I know members of those lists have it in operation - no slight to TCI or its membership. Pehaps TCI should have been included but I was only trying to give them the addresses in the situation I felt most suitable.
I have added TCI to the offending post, perhaps it should have been included, but was an unintentional omission, and certainly not meant to offend anyone..
Dave