Saw this for cheap at Goodwill and grabbed it. It didn't power up when I got it home, so I compared it to the working 308 I have, apparently it's missing part #P01H-F2G1. I hope that's not hard to find, otherwise I'm stuck with a prop. Looks like you would have to dismantle it to get it off, there's no cut wires that I can see.
Good deal, I'm sure that part won't be much of an issue finding, it pretty much works as the battery backup. I think..
Ben
That's just a rechargeable battery pack. If you need one, you should be able to get one at any battery store or Radio Shack if you want to pay way too much.
Larry
Mine does not have the battery in it but it works fine without it.
The battery just saves custom settings and the clock settings. It should work even without the battery. You might want to open it up and see if a fuse on the power supply board is blown or something simple like that.
Quote from: Phonesrfun on February 14, 2014, 05:37:00 PM
The battery just saves custom settings and the clock settings. It should work even without the battery. You might want to open it up and see if a fuse on the power supply board is blown or something simple like that.
Is there an easy way to get a look at the insides? I see at least six screws that appear to be holding it together. That battery wasn't hard to find, but it's supposed to be attached to a plug that's also missing, hopefully it's inside the unit.
I run mine with no battery backup.
The battery can be replaced easily:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/270561796562
The power issue though, well, could be anything, could be anything from a break in the power cable to a cracked main board... :-\
Seems strange it would not power up with out the battery backup as that only keeps the programming. I run my 616 at default so the battery to me doesn't matter. Is it still strapped even thought the battery is gone? Remove the strap if it is. Hopefully its not a deeper issue....Doug
Quote from: Phonesrfun on February 14, 2014, 05:37:00 PM
The battery just saves custom settings and the clock settings. It should work even without the battery. You might want to open it up and see if a fuse on the power supply board is blown or something simple like that.
I opened it up and it appears the problem may be one of 2 fuses that I found (the one on the left). I did not find the plug that the little battery is supposed to attach to, but apparently that's not critical for basic settings.
I hope these fuses aren't hard to find. The one on the left appears it may be bad, but I'll replace both of them anyway. If it doesn't work after that, I'm not going to mess with it any further, it'll have to go to e-waste, unless somebody wants it for parts.
Archie Bunker used to put a penny in the fuse box, by passing the fuse. Yes ...it was a huge fire hazard "you meathead you."
In the same spirit, just wrap the fuse with wire and see if it fires up. Betcha it will. Hey Edit'....how bout a beer over here.....Doug
Fuses shouldn't be hard to find at a hardware or electronics store.
Larry
Quote from: Doug Rose on February 16, 2014, 04:01:10 PM
Archie Bunker used to put a penny in the fuse box, by passing the fuse. Yes ...it was a huge fire hazard "you meathead you."
In the same spirit, just wrap the fuse with wire and see if it fires up. Betcha it will. Hey Edit'....how bout a beer over here.....Doug
I remember doing that with 60s-era cars I used to drive, but I wrapped them in foil.
Quote from: Brinybay on February 16, 2014, 03:37:36 PM
I opened it up and it appears the problem may be one of 2 fuses that I found (the one on the left). I did not find the plug that the little battery is supposed to attach to, but apparently that's not critical for basic settings.
The bad fuse is likely your problem. Think the socket for the battery is on the left hand side of the board 1/3 of the way up. (Left hand side of the large board, approx. 1 1/2 inches up)
If you have no spare fuse, check the existing one with the ohmmeter function of a DVM -- it should measure close to 0 ohms if it is good.It is only 1 1.2 amps and should be very easy to get.
While it is hard to see from the photo of the fuses, if it is blown, it looks like a soft blow - in other words one not caused by a severe short, and may have just been caused by metal fatigue due to its heating over and over in use. Often a "hard blow" will leave back and a vapourised metal deposit on the glass of the fuse. So that may be a good sign. Well worth going out to get a fuse!
If not, I would gladly take it for parts for mine, but I suspect you replace the fuse and you will be back in business.
Dave
I can see why there's no external battery or connections, that yellow bordered disc is a battery, presumably a later refinement (or maybe an earlier design flaw, as you can't replace it without losing all your settings and using a soldering iron!!)... ???
I could be completely wrong though and that is just for holding the time, but without anything to compare it to I could only guess... :)
As for the fuse, they're cheap enough to buy, heck I have some sat in my tin of randomly acquired switches (can't recall how I ended up with them), same rating and all, shame it's cost more to post than they're worth though... ;D
I tried the tin-foil wrap on fuse 1, nothing. I didn't bother to wrap fuse 2 because it didn't look bad. As I was examining the power switch itself, I noticed a "Fire Hazard" warning about a fuse on the cover where the power switch was. So I removed the cover and found what appears to be the main power fuse. It definitely looked bad, so to test it I wrapped it in foil too and hit the switch. That seemed to do the trick, at least as far as trouble-shooting. I don't intend to use it until I replace all 3 fuses with new ones. Fuse 1 seems to have something to do with the "Day" mode, because w/o it being wrapped in foil, the "Day" mode light would not come on.
Note: For clarification purposes, I refer to the fuses by number from left to right as they are mounted in the PBX, fuse 1, fuse 2, and main power fuse.
Glad you got it working! You got a great deal on it, just a little bit more than 13 bucks..
Ben
Now it's known to be working, time to replace the fuses with new ones... ;D
Wouldn't want that 308 to go up in smoke if it does have a fault somewhere down the line from those popped fuses... :)
That is so great, Briny - and what a bargain! Glad the fuse was all that was faulty! Looks as though they are all 1.5 amp 3AG (AGC), so that should make it easier to find them! Congratulations on a super find! Wish we had Goodwill here! The other thing I wish was more active is Craigslist - we have it here, but almost no local listings.
Dave
I found the main power fuse at Radio Shack, but they said they didn't have the other two fuses which are both identical (125v, 1.5a). He only said the fuses he had were a "notch up" from the ones I needed, which he said would not be good to use (he didn't say specifically what he meant by a "notch up".) I took his word for it, but googling around I can only find 250v, 1.5a fuses, which seem to be common. I also googled around and it seems to be the consensus that it's ok to up the voltage, but not the amps. Do y'all concur with that?
In fuse nomenclature, the amperage is the important issue. A fuse rated at 1.0 amps will work at any voltage, as long as the connection to the fuse won't arc over at high voltages.
So a 1 A fuse that is rated at 250 volts will provide the 1A protection at any voltage. If you needed 1 amp protection at 1,000 volts, the physical properties of a 250 volt fuse might not be good at those kinds of volts.
Quote from: Phonesrfun on February 20, 2014, 11:47:03 PM
In fuse nomenclature, the amperage is the important issue. A fuse rated at 1.0 amps will work at any voltage, as long as the connection to the fuse won't arc over at high voltages.
So a 1 A fuse that is rated at 250 volts will provide the 1A protection at any voltage. If you needed 1 amp protection at 1,000 volts, the physical properties of a 250 volt fuse might not be good at those kinds of volts.
So a 250v, 1.5a fuse will be ok to use? (Please don't tell me about parasitic capacitance, I already looked it up, my eyes are still glazed over.)
It's possible he was referring to the difference between fast-blo and slow-blo fuses.
Depending on the circuit and its requirements for protection, a slo-blo fuse could potentially cause severe damage if it replaced a fast-blo fuse and a catastrophic condition were to occur.
Quote from: Brinybay on February 20, 2014, 11:41:06 PM
I found the main power fuse at Radio Shack, but they said they didn't have the other two fuses which are both identical (125v, 1.5a). He only said the fuses he had were a "notch up" from the ones I needed, which he said would not be good to use (he didn't say specifically what he meant by a "notch up".) I took his word for it, but googling around I can only find 250v, 1.5a fuses, which seem to be common. I also googled around and it seems to be the consensus that it's ok to up the voltage, but not the amps. Do y'all concur with that?
Quote
(Please don't tell me about parasitic capacitance, I already looked it up, my eyes are still glazed over.)
I have only run into parasitics while on the UHF/VHF ham bands, but that's another story.
Yes, you should be ok with a 250v 1.5A fuse.
The voltage rating specifies how much voltage the fuse can handle. Using a fuse with a higher voltage rating than what is required is no problem. The current rating specifies how much current the fuse will pass before it blows. You do not want to use a fuse with a current rating much higher than what is required or the fuse may allow a dangerous amount of current to flow. Wrapping a fuse in foil or putting a penny into a fuse socket is like installing a fuse with a very high current rating. Slow-blow fuses allow more current than the rating to flow for a short period of time without blowing. They are needed for some circuits which draw more current than normal upon power-up or other events. Using a slow-blow fuse where it is not appropriate can be as bad as using a fuse with a larger current rating.
Larry
That's good to know. The main power fuses I bought are "Fast-Blo", or as RS has labeled them, "Fast-Acting". I can get the 250v 1.5a fast-acting fuses locally. I may check with RS again to see if what they had were actually the 250v fuses.
:) Fuses and voltage are pretty like capacitors, the voltage are a maximum limit.
The amp rating are the main issue, the faster the fuse are the more sensitive against the peak load at power up, but actually more tolerant for a smaller long term over current.
This may be a kind of science for the experts, and I have seen a fuse with one amp rating as quick, and a another as slow, but I do not really remember the details.
Your homemade fuse shows nothing wrong at start-up, so if the new one blows at once it is to quick. Usual lazy practise are to get slower one, ore go one size up. The last are not the right to do, but pretty common.
dsk
Quote from: Phonesrfun on February 21, 2014, 12:07:03 PM
I have only run into parasitics while on the UHF/VHF ham bands, but that's another story.
We run into them in government positions here quite a bit as well.
Terry
Went back to RS and got a 4-pack of 250v, 1.5a, fast-blo/fast-acting fuses. When the unit is powered on, you can see an arc across the fuse (see clip). I've been through 2 of them so far. It's the fuse that apparently controls the Day Mode. In normal operation, the Day Mode indicator light comes on with an audible "click" after a brief pause (you can hear the Day Mode click on at about :08 or :09 in the clip.) After 3 or 4 power-ups, the fuse blew. This is the second fuse I put in from a new pack of fuses. I'm wondering if the arcing is an indication of something wrong with the PBX, or perhaps it should be a "slow-blo" fuse?
http://youtu.be/re6vrTHw7io
I'd say there's a fault in there, possibly a shorted relay or capacitor, as the fuse is visibly overheating and blowing (causing the arc), you could try a slow-blow fuse, but if there is a fault it could cause further damage...
Quote from: twocvbloke on February 21, 2014, 07:57:36 PM
I'd say there's a fault in there, possibly a shorted relay or capacitor, as the fuse is visibly overheating and blowing (causing the arc), you could try a slow-blow fuse, but if there is a fault it could cause further damage...
In that case, I'm going to cut my losses and stop here. I don't have the know-how to investigate this further, or even the need, I already have a functioning 308.
I'd say that was a safer bet, these are old units now so may have things wrong due to age, plus being 2nd hand means that anything could have happened to it prior to your purchasing it, such as a power surge or lightning discharge... :-\
Still, plenty more Panasonic 308 and 616 units out there to be hand if need be... :)
Those are some pretty hefty capacitors in there. Possibly their charge-up surge current is what is causing the fuse to pop, in which case a slow-blow fuse would be appropriate. Do you have the original fuse? As I recall, a slow-blow fuse often has the appearance of a coil of wire or a stretched spring (which is what it is) inside the glass envelope. A normal (fast-blow) fuse has a single piece of straight wire traversing the length of the fuse body inside the glass. No spring.
Bill
Just looking inside my 616, and all the fuses appear to be slow-blows, ant they all seem to be specced as 125V T 2A (except the main fuse with the power switch, which is 250V T1.6A), I know the 308 is smaller than the 616, but thought I'd throw that info in... :)
Quote from: Bill on February 22, 2014, 12:11:10 PM
Those are some pretty hefty capacitors in there. Possibly their charge-up surge current is what is causing the fuse to pop, in which case a slow-blow fuse would be appropriate. Do you have the original fuse? As I recall, a slow-blow fuse often has the appearance of a coil of wire or a stretched spring (which is what it is) inside the glass envelope. A normal (fast-blow) fuse has a single piece of straight wire traversing the length of the fuse body inside the glass. No spring.
Bill
There's a picture of them in the first page of this thread, and you're right, they look like a stretched spring. So there's hope after all. I'll get some slow-blo fuses and see what happens.
Good Luck, Briny, I hope it works for you!
Keeping my fingers crossed... ;D
Best regards!
Quote from: Brinybay
So there's hope after all. I'll get some slow-blo fuses and see what happens.
The way I see it, you have nothing to lose.
I know nothing about the Panasonic PBXs in particular. My guess is that "Day Mode" means normal operation where as not being in Day Mode it is either in Night Mode or Power Fail mode. It likely powers up in Power Fail mode which probably hooks one or more trunks directly to certain stations through relays. Then after a self check it changes to Day Mode with a click as the relays operate removing the station / trunk connections and going into normal operation.
Terry
Quote from: twocvbloke on February 22, 2014, 12:50:34 PM
Just looking inside my 616, and all the fuses appear to be slow-blows, ant they all seem to be specced as 125V T 2A (except the main fuse with the power switch, which is 250V T1.6A), I know the 308 is smaller than the 616, but thought I'd throw that info in... :)
I didn't keep the original main power fuse, but fortunately I got a picture of it (page 2). It too appears to be a slow-blo (stretched spring look), so I may replace it as well when I get time to get down to RS.
Quote from: AE_Collector on February 23, 2014, 02:40:25 PM
I know nothing about the Panasonic PBXs in particular. My guess is that "Day Mode" means normal operation where as not being in Day Mode it is either in Night Mode or Power Fail mode. It likely powers up in Power Fail mode which probably hooks one or more trunks directly to certain stations through relays. Then after a self check it changes to Day Mode with a click as the relays operate removing the station / trunk connections and going into normal operation.
Terry
Day and Night modes are basically just a way to switch between two separate programming modes, so you can program the system in Day mode to operate in one manner during the day, and then program the system to operate in a completely different way in Night mode, so it's more of a programming thing really... :)
the first extensions (in this case 11 to 13) are the power fail extensions which give direct access to external lines (no "Dial 9 for an outside line") when there's no power, so the relays that click are transferring the line control over to the system, so I guess powering up those relays (3 in this system) is probably too much for a fast-blow fuse... ???
It will go into Power Fail mode even if the power is on but the system has failed. Thus when it has failed the relays are down connecting the power fail phones to the CO lines. Once it is powered up and has confirmed that all is well the system powers the relays up removing the power fail situation.
Terry
Ok, I got some slo-blo fuses and installed them. The main power fuse I found at the nearest RS, but I had to find the other ones online. I've powered it up 12-14 times, seems ok. I can see the fuse element move a tad bit at power up, but it seems to hold. I've got it plugged in and switched my incoming line and daily driver over to it to try it for a while.
Old 2014 thread.
What was the end result after your test run Greg.