newbie with an AE 50

[rx808]

Greetings!

I've just purchased an AE 50--I was looking for a western electric (etc) model 554, but the antique shop only had this, so...  

Pix here:
https://picasaweb.google.com/102400587790638533084/AE50?authuser=0&feat=directlink

I'm trying to make some decisions about what to do with it--I do intend to keep it and use it, but how best to get to that point?

It needs a new dial, obviously, and I've seen AE 24 and AE 24A36 dials for sale.  Is this what I need?

Pros and cons about just transplanting the guts of a model 500 into it?  

Or a new network (?)(Is that the right word?)/mini-network and work with the guts in it?  

I intend to scrub it down (avoiding the decals) with isopropyl alcohol.  I hesitate to do anything 'stronger'.

Some much to learn...

Thanks for any and all thoughts, advice, cautions, and warnings.

BobH

[AE_Collector]

Hi Bob:

No need to transplant WECo networks or AE Mini Networks, It's good to go as is. Needs some cleaning and rust removal and most likely a replacement AE dial. AE 24, 24A36 or 51 are all compatible. What is that, a North dial (anyone?). It would most likely be compatible as well but looks to be in rough shape. If it can be made to work you can put it in your next "North Electric" phone.

I'm not sure I would try to save the decal under the dial. I'm assuming it has been addded as a part of the installation where it was previously in use. The gold decal on top is original AE though. The plate at the plunger was part of a "party line" switch to test the line for conversations on a party line before going completely off hook but it looks to only be half there.

Here's a discussion from another recent AE50 owner from a couple of days ago.
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=6495.msg75443#msg75443

Welcome to the Classic Rotary Forum!

Terry

[Dennis Markham]

Welcome to the Forum Bob.  Overall, it looks like a nice AE 50.  Some quick first impressions and response to your questions.

1: No, don't put Western Electric parts in it.

2:  That looks like an old North Electric dial.  Not an AE dial.  I am currently working on a Metal North "Galion" phone and the dial looks identical.  That may be why the dial is "floating".  It's probably not the right size for that phone.  There are some AE experts here who will tell you what dial you need in that phone.

3:  Looks like the phone may have spent some time in water, or at least in a moist environment.

4:  The ringer frequency looks like SL, for "straight line".  That's what you need to work on today's lines.  That's a good thing.

5:  I've never tried cleaning the exterior of Bakelite with alcohol, but I'm sure it won't hurt anything.  I might spray some 409 type cleaner on it in small sections, cleaning off dirt and grime, then polish with a good plastic polish (I know it's Bakelite) but a polish like Novus #2 works great on Bakelite.

6:  Does the handset depress the plunger when it's in the cradle?  It looks like the appropriate AE handset.

I'm sure others will weigh in on your phone.  As I mentioned, just some first impressions from viewing your photos.

~Dennis

P.S. Terry posted while I was typing this.  So there may be duplicate information.

[LarryInMichigan]

I was typing a response while the last two were being posted.  Most of what I wrote has already been posted. 

The dial is an older North Electric, like the one that Dennis is cleaning at this moment.  I have never seen one of these in an AE50 before.  An AE dial (24 or later) would be more at home.  AE dials can often be found for $10-$20.  If you see one, make sure that it is not the later type which has the finger stop attached to the outside.  Don't discard the North dial.  It is moderately valuable.

Your phone should work as it is.  You do not need (or want) to install any network in it.  Just make sure that the wiring follows the diagram.

Enjoy your new phone!

Larry

[rx808]

Wow.  Quick responses.

Thanks, Larry, Dennis and Terry.  The dial that is in it is pretty much a block of rust. It has zero rotary movement.  Well, zero movement in any direction.  I hesitate to apply much force, though.  I assume that the dial faceplate(?) and the finger ring (?) are from/for an AE and could be/should be transplanted to a new dial?

Terry-The link you posted didn't seem to be about party lines, but a search came up with this: http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=5652.0  There wouldn't by any overwhelming reason to keep the plate installed, then?  If not, I'll probably just secure it somewhere inside the phone, should it's services be required again...

Dennis--I'll keep the Western Union stuff out of it, then.    I'll experiment with other cleaning solutions.  My goal isn't a show-room looking phone, but a clean and usable phone.  I like a bit of patina...  The really rusty bits (brackets and non-electrical/non brass parts) inside I'll pull out and sandblast+paint.  It looks like the bracket that holds the dial (and has a big capacitor(?)) mounted under it was cadmium plated...I'll just paint the thing.  I agree it spent some time in a moist environment.  I don't know how the dial could have turned into a block of rust, otherwise.  The handset does depress the plunger  I was surprised that it hasn't made a mark in the bakelite.

Larry--Thanks for the dial advice.  By 'finger stop attached to the outside', you mean to the outside of the phone, and not as part of the dial?  That is, I need a dial that the finger stop is part of?

A 'new' dial won't include the mounting ring, will it?  I'm referring to the (bakelite?) ring that surrounds the dial and has the two studs in it that mount to the phone.  The one that I have currently is quite 'wed' to the dial.  The screws securing it to the dial (or the dial to it...) are just balls of rust, the ring itself is no longer round (I assume it was round at one point, but the expansive properties of rust...), and one of the studs is pulled out.  So that'd be another piece to source?

The little schematic that I've got from inside the phone has capacitor values, but no ratings (voltages/etc)  I'd think that after (xx) years they should just be replaced, particularly if they spend time in/under water as the phone appears to have?  If so, what (any guesses) should I be looking for for voltage ratings on these caps?

Thanks guys...I think I've found another weird hobby.

BobH

[LarryInMichigan]

Bob,

If you find an AE dial to replace this dial, you will need to unscrew the two posts which are on the back of this dial and screw them into the back of the new dial.  These posts fit into the holes in the bracket on the phone.  No other parts from the old dial will be needed.  The plastic adapter ring on the North dial is needed for that dial because the dial was not originally made for the type of mounting that most 194s-50s phones used.  A later style AE dial will not need it.  Leave it on the North dial.  Those adapter rings are made of an early resin type material which shrinks and crumbles with age.  As far as I am aware, they are not replaceable, so it is best to preserve it as it is.  I have one here which looked similar and was crumbling.  I used alot of Weldbond on it to hold it together.

The dials for AE80s and other phones from that period had finger stops which attached to the outer surface of the dial housing.  You do not want that type of dial.

There is a large condenser (capacitor) near the top of the phone.  This is used in the talking circuit.  These seldom go bad, so I would not recommend replacing it unless the phone does not work properly.  The same goes for the ringer capacitor.

Also, I would not recommend painting anything, but leaving things as original as possible.

Larry

[rx808]

Thank you, Larry.

Here's an example that I've seen (for sale) of a 24A36.

http://www.oldphoneworks.com/automatic-electric-24a36.html

Would this work?  The case has a molded 'cut out' where the finger stop is...?

What's the difference between a '24A36' and a '24'?

Here's the stud that pulled out:
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/D_95Xo0D6pufe1Grcp49adMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink

It looks like (because of the knurling) that it was either pressed into the mounting ring, or molded in.

It does, however, have a screw head on the other end...
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/MiByBd_upptA-BHEota_6NMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink

Here's the dial with the mounting ring--you can see where the 'stud' pulled out and cracked the ring.
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/QiKqE72qZWF6rTEFuqqDCNMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink

I suppose that the stud could be screwed into a thin knurled section...Hmm.  I'll have to wirebrush it and see if there's a join line.

You are saying, and forgive me for continue to pester you, that a 'new' AE dial would need to have the studs transfered to it? --I might, if they screw in, have to fabricate studs--but that's not a problem.  

ANyway, I will take your advice to only touch what needs to be touched.  I will forgo sandblasting the rusty brackets, etc--and instead settle for a good blow out with compressed air, and anti-sieze on any threads that pass into a rusty hole.


Again, thank you.

BobH

[AE_Collector]

The studs will screw into threaded holes on the back of a correct AE dial. Those look like the correct AE studs rather than them being a North Electric part.

AE type 24 dials are 3" dials that were introduced in 1924. The 24A36 is an update to the type 24 that was done in 1936. The main feature of the update was "Pawl Quieting", they almost eliminated the clicking as you wound the dial up.

Here's a discussion about AE Dial types though I haven't added to it for awhile now.
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=5867.0

A type 24A36 or a Type 51 or 51A would be the most accurate for your phone according to the years the phone and dials were manufactured. AE 50's were manufactured from about 1940 to 1960.

Your AE50 appears to be an earlier model with cloth wiring and a steel dial mounting bracket. Many of the later dial mounting brackets were stamped out of alluminum. Usually the dial mounting bracket and the lower switch hook bracket are made from matching material.

Terry

[rx808]

Thank you, Terry.

I'll pursue a 24a36, then...it's cheaper, too, from what I'm seeing.

I assume that finger wheels are transplant-able--the ones I'm seeing for sale are black, the one I've got is chrome.

Lotsa things to learn.

BobH

[AE_Collector]

Yes the fingerwheel is relatively easily removed. A little bit of a trick to it but some research on this site will teach you a lot about old phones.

These AE 50 as well as the desk AE 40 phones very often have busted bakelite cases. Therefore, another route you could go would be to find a busted one or just the remains of an AE 50 on ebaY for cheap and then move parts around to build one good clean AE 50. You may get one with a dial and non rusted ringer and mounting brackets for the same or even less than just a dial will cost you.

I don't have an AE 50 with the party line plate like yours so I don't know exactly how it works. If you can put the plunger back into the phone without using the extra metal plate that is probably the way to go.

Terry

[rx808]

Thanks (again), Terry.

I'll get some parts coming--then I'll have more questions

BobH