wiring 181427(425E) network to 127F ringer to 202 4H phone

[unbeldi]

I have not looked at the details of your wiring yet.  Sorry.  I think Poplar1 is helping you with that already. I am sure you'll get it right with care.

Just a note about nomenclature on the diagrams.  I should have included a legend.

DP = dial pulse (a switch on the dial that produces the dial pulses)
DS = dial switch  (these are called 'off-normal' contacts also, designated in the BSP as "ON")
HS = hook switch (any switch operated by the switch hook.)

The serial numbers after DS and HS have no practical meaning other than as a reference for circuit descriptions.  They do no imply terminal numbers. sorry.  The terminals have designation that usually are representative of the color of the wire on them, but there are exceptions. The designations on the wiring diagram  (based on the BSP) should have the correct terminal names as you should find them on the parts. This is the diagram you should follow rigorously.

I also noticed that in my wiring diagram I switched the connections of the ringer from my earlier textual description because of convenience in the diagram, but I didn't notice until later.  It doesn't matter, either will work.

[jludtxs]

I did move the black wire with no change and also separated the thick black cloth wires in phone to see better.  I get a dial tone that stays open even when dialing. Trying to call in the line is busy  Here is the latest - Network B- black wire to line cord,   B- black wire to Dial BK to handset,  C- black jumper to L2,   RR- green jumper to L1,   L1- green wire to bell to line,   L2- yellow wire to line,   L2- yellow wire to Phone switch-Y,   L2- red wire to bell to line,   Network GN - green wire to switch GN,   Network GN-green wire to switch BK ,   Network-R red wire to dial-R to handset,   Phone-W switch thick black to Dial-BB,   Phone-BK switch- thick black to Dial-Y   

[unbeldi]

I did move the black wire with no change and also separated the thick black cloth wires in phone to see better.  I get a dial tone that stays open even when dialing. Trying to call in the line is busy  Here is the latest - Network B- black wire to line cord,   B- black wire to Dial BK to handset,  C- black jumper to L2,   RR- green jumper to L1,   L1- green wire to bell to line,   L2- yellow wire to line,   L2- yellow wire to Phone switch-Y,   L2- red wire to bell to line,   Network GN - green wire to switch GN,   Network GN-green wire to switch BK ,   Network-R red wire to dial-R to handset,   Phone-W switch thick black to Dial-BB,   Phone-BK switch- thick black to Dial-Y

I think we are running into some troubles here.  This is due to at least two three four causes.

(1) These newer BSPs are using a different wiring scheme than the older BSP (1930s and 40s) drawings and the older phones.  Yours was wired according to the old scheme as is almost always the case. The new diagrams don't use the R-BK off-normal dial switch at all. Your set is still connecting the two red wires to the R terminal on the dial, while they should be on the R terminal on the free-standing post. This would cause an unwanted short when taking the handset off-hook. Please observe the location of the screw posts in the wiring diagram. At the top of each "column" it specifies where the post is located. Never mind that the free-standing R terminal is under "Line Switch", when it is not switched at all. In another version of this handset mounting there would be a switch there too. Unfortunately the term "line switch" isn't all that accurate anyhow, as it doesn't just switch the "line" connections, see for example the GN-W switch (HS2 in my nomenclature).

(2) I also seem to detect two wire coming from the GN terminal on the network going to the telephone, there should be only one.  [PS:  I see now that you also describe this in your last post]

(3) You describe that you have a jumper from terminal network-C to L2.  Why?  The diagram shows C connected with the 5th mounting cord conductor (blue in the diagram) to term BK on the dial.

(4) You describe that you have a wire from network-B black to line cord.  The diagram shows B connected with black to handset wire black.

That's how far I have examined your wiring.

[unbeldi]

I have the impression you are using more than one diagram or set of instructions at the same time.

You can only follow ONE.

There are multiple ways for wiring a telephone, this one and others. Each by itself may get you to a valid, working telephone, but not if you mix them up. Follow one, study how and why it works, and then compare to the others to understand the bigger picture.

This thread contains already everything you should need.

[jludtxs]

Hi, thanks for the help. You are right, I am sure I got information from multiples. I thought the one with the columns was the same as the last just more simplified to eliminate the 5th wire. I checked and I can easily add another wire in the casing of the 4 conductor cord I have. I have to go to town and can check the hardware store for another color of the same type wire. I will study the diagram with the columns.  So... a few questions to start- the diagram shows DP as the dial pulse but which screw on the dial is it? Which screw is the - ON?  Should I ignore the R line switch connection and move both of  the red wires to the free standing post and leave the dial- R empty? Finally, am I over thinking the line wire trying to connect all while from the network only the two red and green wires go to the wall? I am going to study and work on this tonight. thanks again

[unbeldi]

Hi, thanks for the help. You are right, I am sure I got information from multiples. I thought the one with the columns was the same as the last just more simplified to eliminate the 5th wire. I checked and I can easily add another wire in the casing of the 4 conductor cord I have. I have to go to town and can check the hardware store for another color of the same type wire. I will study the diagram with the columns.  So... a few questions to start- the diagram shows DP as the dial pulse but which screw on the dial is it? Which screw is the - ON?  Should I ignore the R line switch connection and move both of  the red wires to the free standing post and leave the dial- R empty? Finally, am I over thinking the line wire trying to connect all while from the network only the two red and green wires go to the wall? I am going to study and work on this tonight. thanks again

Each of the switches in the diagram has little letters on the connections, for example, the DP switch has Y and BK lettering. You will find those letters directly on the dial case next the screw.  Same with the ON switch, BB and W.   The hookswitch terminals are labels similarly with lettering on the brass and in the diagram.

Yes, leave the R terminal on the dial empty.  The diagram tells you to do so too, there is no wire connected there.

Re: line wires, yes, only red and green go to the wall, ignore any other wires (yellow and black) in the line cord.

[jludtxs]

Here are the latest pics. I am still wrong but getting closer. My first download of the diagram was blurry so I guessed at some. I am clear now. The red wire to the line switch doesn't say which screw to use.   I think I must be wrong somewhere in the black wires too. I did break out the multimeter and my spades are all making good contact. Everywhere I have connections are showing continuity. All combinations of the black wires show continuity with the hook up and down.

[poplar1]

The black handset wire is currently connected to BK on the dial, as it should be when you are using an older subset. However, with this network, it should be removed from the dial and instead connected to B on the network.

[poplar1]

You also now have two jumpers from BK on the switch: the green one is correct--going to Y on the dial. But by having the black one going to BK on the dial, you are effectively bypassing the dial pulse contacts. You need only one jumper from BK on the switch to Y on the dial.

There should be only one wire connected to BK of the dial: the one from C on the network. Thus you have will make the switch and the dial pulsing contacts in series: L2 on network through Y-BK of the switch then through Y-BK of the dial, then back to C on the network. So when the phone is off-hook and the dial is at rest, there is a continuous path from L2 to C. C and RR are the input to the network and you already have L1 and RR strapped.

[poplar1]

Sorry, but I can't follow all the wires or read all the terminal designations on the network in your photos. With apologies to Bill, perhaps this will help:

1. Red wire from R on network to R terminal opposite the switch hook
2. Green wire from GN on network to GN on switch hook
3. Black wire from B on network to black handset wire (create a junction* since there is no available spare terminal)
4. Yellow wire from L2 on network to Y on switch hook
5. Blue wire from C on network to BK on dial

6. Jumper from BK on switch hook to Y on dial
7. Jumper from W on switch hook to BB on dial

8. Red handset to R terminal opposite switch hook (with red wire from network)
9. Black handset to junction* (with black wire from network)
10. White handset to W on dial

11. Jumper from L2 to A on network Jumper from L1 to K
12. Ringer (red) to K and (black) to L1 Ringer to L2 and A.

13. Line cord (green) to L1
14. Line cord (red) to L2
15. Jumper from L1 to RR

Nothing connected to R on dial.

* You can create a junction by using a #6 screw and nut, or by using bare wire wrapped around the spade tip(s). The black handset wire and the wire from C on the network connect together, but they are not connected to any terminals on either the dial or the switch hook.

[jludtxs]

THANK YOU!!! . I actually thought of that but it must not be possible. There was room in the line wire casing to add 2 wires instead of 1 (The orange in picture from C to dial BK along with this wire from handset to Network-B) since the network will be in the bell box.   The L2 to A jumper must just be a mirage from looking too long at my mess.  I can call in now. The bells ring and after I took off the jumper from Switch BK to Dial BK I can now also dial out. WHO HOO!!  THANKS FOR THE GREAT GROUP EFFORT!!!! These were just temporary wires so I will get everything together as finished and post pictures of the final setup. THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!!!!!!  In case it get looked in to again, should I put in title to scroll to end for the final working result? or I see a box for (quote)

[unbeldi]

Good job!  Exquisite.

But why have you decided that you need a six-conductor cord?  (acc. to your Phoneco post).

If you do mean that, there is in fact a wiring method for that too, and we can explore that too, if you want, but five conductors would be just fine and it should save a little money.

The cord you're buying should ideally have a dark brown cloth jacket, that would be the historically correct appearance and would go nicely with your wooden subset.

[jludtxs]

Thanks, My phone line went out for almost a week and the phone company ran a new line today. I had to run the black handset wire directly to the "B" in the network that is in the bell box, making the 6th wire.  This instruction came from poplar1 and did work. I am open to another way to wire, Since I am back on line now, I can tinker some more. 

[unbeldi]

Thanks, My phone line went out for almost a week and the phone company ran a new line today. I had to run the black handset wire directly to the "B" in the network that is in the bell box, making the 6th wire.  This instruction came from poplar1 and did work. I am open to another way to wire, Since I am back on line now, I can tinker some more.

A working phone line helps, I hope you didn't blow it up in the process, LOL.

Well, the wire to B would be the fifth wire only.  You should have black, green, red, yellow, and blue (or substitute).
What else did you wire up?

[jludtxs]

Ok thanks, I had another wire going from B on the network to BK on the dial. I took it off to see what happens and it did not make a difference so I am using 5 wires now. The phone repair man replaced my line because he said it looked bad and he didn't like the readings he was getting at the street pole but the problem I was having was at the box around 2 miles away. There was a lightening strike last week but if it is possible for me to have blown something then I probably did. I did have to change 2 of my dsl filters today also.