Phone not always hanging up

Firefyter-Emt · February 17, 2009, 05:14:59 PM

Hello, I just recently bought a 6-58' WE-500 and it was in very nice shape upon arrival. I took apart the headset to clean, and cleaned the whole body, but other than a little simichrome on the bells, I did not touch the insides. The phone even came with an original Bell systems black 4-prong plug on the end. I did pick up the proper wall outlet to use it too.

The phone seems to not have a dial tone every now and then when I pick it up until I press the plunger on the base. Well today all hell broke out as my phone was busy most all day. (At my home office) It appears that it does the same thing in reverse and does not hang up sometimes. I assume this is something that can be fixed by cleaning, and I am very mechanically inclined, but I just wanted to check to see if there are any suggestions on cleaning. Tips maybe?

Here is my black brick... I have a new cord and dial cards on the way.

benhutcherson · February 17, 2009, 05:23:43 PM

My best guess would be that you have a sticking plunger.

Take the shell off and examine them-they should flop back and forth freely. If they don't, you've found your problem.

To remedy it, you'll need to remove the plungers and clean them, as well as the holes. If you look on the underside of the shell(removed from the telephone), you'll see a small plastic plate which keeps them from falling off the bottom. This plate is held on by a single screw-remove this screw, and you can lift the plate out.

You can then either let the plungers fall out, or if necessary, push them out. Clean them with soap and warm water, then let them try.

While you're at it, you might also take a wet paper towel and pass it through the holes in the shell a couple of times. If there's a big build up of crud in the holes, take a screwdriver and scrape it out until they're relatively clean, then repeat with the paper towels.

You could possibly be dealing with other issues, but to me this seems the most likely, and is also the easiest to fix.

Firefyter-Emt · February 17, 2009, 06:04:28 PM

No, I had thoroughly cleaned the housing and the plungers were removed, cleaned and are very free (even a tad on the loose side in the hole).

I just finished removing all the wires and cleaning the spades, screws and transformer. Not sure if it will fix it, but it has not done it yet. In fact, as I type, a fax just came over and connected. Might of been just the connections, but the phone was very clean on the inside.

On a good note, I have found that my base is all original, even the dial assy. The coiled cord and handset innards have been replaced, but the phone itself is all intact.

This may not be the fix, so if there are any other thoughts, keep them coming!

Dennis Markham · February 17, 2009, 06:22:54 PM

Welcome to the forum. I have a couple of thoughts. A picture is worth a thousand words. It would be great if you could post a photo showing the network block with wiring connections. Also I'd like to see the hook switch and the wires underneath of that. Sometimes the blue and green wires that run from the dial interfere with the hook switch bracket as it goes up and down. If they are rubbing on that it could be a source of your problem and a simple fix. The other thing I think of is the dial contacts. They will cause a similar type of problem if they are not positioned properly. I bring this up often with regard to issues people have with dial tone. Many times it can be the case. While you're at it, if you can take a photo of of the back side of the dial mechanism with the plastic cover removed so that I can see how the cam pushes against the contacts that would help me eliminate that issue from my pea brain. It's very easy to remove the dial mechanism. You can leave the dial ring and finger wheel attached. Just loosen the screws on either side of the dial until you can lift it off of the dial bracket. Then there are two small screws that hold the clear yellow dust cover (sometimes they are milky white) on the back. Just remove those screws and lift off the plastic cover.

We will get this working properly.

Dennis

Firefyter-Emt · February 17, 2009, 08:54:25 PM

Ok, to start... it is still doing it, the worse part is that it does it when I hang up and apparently it does not hang up. I could live with having to "press the plunger" to get a dial tone, but can not live with a phone that is busy all day. (I received over a dozen complaints from various people today because I am employed by the largest auto insurer in Mass... Not good when people can not reach my home office!)

Anyway, I took a couple of the wires when I cleaned it, so here these are. The wires do not interfere with the mechanics of the hook switch anywhere. I will work on dial removal and photos now... Give me a few minutes, I have not done it before!

Firefyter-Emt · February 17, 2009, 09:25:31 PM

Ok... Is this what you are looking for on the dial or do I need to remove the number ring off the front as well?

Dennis Markham · February 17, 2009, 09:25:55 PM

The wiring here appears OK with the exception of the black ringer wire. Your phone will not ring in this configuration. Although it has nothing to do with your other problem, once you get that fixed you'll probably want to hear it ring. Simple fix. Look here: http://www.porticus.org/bell/images/500ringerrewiring.jpg

I will await photos of your dial.

Dennis Markham · February 17, 2009, 09:27:57 PM

No. No need to remove the other side. What I'm seeing looks normal. Plan C. Anyone else with suggestions? Let me review your photos again and think a minute..smoke filling my room.

Firefyter-Emt · February 17, 2009, 09:37:41 PM

FYI... the original 4-prong plug I have is made so that spare terminals have 2 slots for each pin inside the plug. My wires are jumped in the plug at that end, and the phone does ring right now.

Dennis Markham · February 17, 2009, 09:52:37 PM

"Tip and Ring" would be proud of you for that one. (The wires strapped at the plug). I guess then the black wire doesn't have to be moved.

I have poured over your photos and I cannot explain by way of the dial and or the connections why you are having that problem. Does the hook switch bracket appear to be bent at all? When you first described the problem I concurred with what Ben wrote. It sounded like the switch hook was not coming up all the way, thus no dial tone. Until you manually pushed it down and maybe snapped it up. So all day the phone got a busy signal because it simulated being off the hook, which as you said was the reverse of the no dial tone.

Plug it in and lift the handset. Hold it to your ear and dial the phone. Do you get an intermittent dial tone during dialing? Does anything happen? I still suspect the dial but it looks good. If it's not the dial, and not the connections, and nothing is hindering a clean movement of the hook switch bracket....and the little black tab is in the proper slot and connected properly....then it could be a problem with the network itself or a problem with the switch leaves. Examine them as you move the hook up and down. Does everything appear OK? I have worked on a few of these and never had a problem with the switch so I just can't imagine that being your issue.

I know it shouldn't matter but I would remove that yellow wire.....whichever is easiest, either from the plug or remove it from the G terminal. Is it possible there is a short there?

Do you have another 500 that you can look at to compare the switches as they move?

Is it possible the wall jack that you're plugging the phone into has an issue?

Do you have VOIP or a regular POTS line (Plain Old Telephone Service)??

That's all I have to suggest. Anybody else??

Dennis Markham · February 17, 2009, 09:54:56 PM

By the way, your dial has color code -60 which is light beige. So originally that dial was on a light beige 500. For what that's worth.

Firefyter-Emt · February 17, 2009, 10:17:12 PM

Ok.. how is this for you. I hang up the phone and pick up my cordless. I have a dial tone. If I wait a minute or two and do it again, I get the "off the hook" tone or please hang up. I can press the head set down hard and not change the status on my cordless tattle-tale. I took the cover back off and held the hook down firmly and tried that, and got the same result. At first there is a normal dial tone and THEN it decides to go "off hook" and there is nothing that seems to make it hang up.

This is a new problem as it seems to do it every time now and the phone has been in my office since Thursday and it worked fine. I did get that "no dial tone" once or twice when I picked it up and had to press the plunger to get the dial tone, but it seemed to work fine.

I did as you suggested, and switched the wires in the plug and the base. The phone came that way and worked so I left it. The wire to this phone is rather simple, it is a new dedicated line (well, maybe 5 years old) and has just a fax, my cordless, and this phone on it with a six foot run. It made no difference in the problem.
I was looking at all the contacts and they were all clean and appeared to do what they should, no signs of bent or damaged part either.

And for the dial, that is very odd... How often would you see a perfect date stamp on a swapped part?

Oh, and this is my only rotary phone for now...

benhutcherson · February 17, 2009, 10:25:29 PM

I've never seen a problem quite like yours-everything appears to be in order.

Could you possibly post a picture of the pileup on the hookswitch, preferably with the plastic snap-on cover removed? This seems to me to be the only place left we haven't addressed yet.

Thanks,
Ben

Firefyter-Emt · February 17, 2009, 10:42:59 PM

Figures....

Take a peek here...

Dennis Markham · February 17, 2009, 10:47:00 PM

These photos are taken with the bracket in the up position, as if it were off the hook?

I will get a phone and open it up and compare the contacts.

The problem MAY be inside the network. It's rare but they do go bad. There could be something shorting out inside.

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Phone not always hanging up