Help with connecting an AE21 to a 302 Baseplate as 'subset'

[Tonpat]

Hi everybody,

I am the newbie both on the forum as well as on the subject. I have an AE 21 with the following hookswitch and dial combinations and wiring (see attachment). I've learned from your posts that a 302 base can be used as a cheap subset. I wanted to use such a subset with this AE 21. Through my research and all the posts I've gone through, I haven't come across any dealing directly with this problem or any diagram which links such a phone with a 302 subset with 4 cords connection (according to the subset), except a post by Kevin Lane started in May 2011 asking for help with this very problem but then somehow they got into WE 202 technical diagram which for me it did not help.
Grateful for any help with this by sharing with me a diagram indicating the 4 cords connection on the telephone side and on the subset side if such a setup is at all possible of course.

Please note that up to now I've tried all the combinations trying to link the phone with the 302 base via the 4 cords connection. Referring to the attached diagram current connection and with the fourth cord connected to 8 and at other points on the phone I have succeeded in only being able to;
a) dial another phone,
b) received call from another phone
where the phone has only ring in both direction but no conversation was able to be made
And most significantly there is NO Dial Tone.
Any help would be much appreciated.

It is also to be noted that during my trials I have not necessarily respected the colour indicating the wires/cords but rather follow the connection points.

Thank you for accepting me onboard

Regards
Tonpat

[poplar1]

Please provide a photo of the hookswitch contacts (side view). I think there are different variations of the AE 21 with different hookswitches. If you have a 4-contact switch with 2 sets of contacts, then this diagram may help. (From TCI Library)

[HarrySmith]

Hi and Welcome to the forum. You have found the best forum on the net. Yes, we always need pictures. Besides giving more info to help with your question we just like to look at phones  

[Tonpat]

Hi Guys,
Attached is the additional picture you asked for plus a couple more. Going back to the diagram provided by Poplar1 - thanks Poplar1, it is obvious that one contact of the pulsing springs is connected to a hookswitch contact, however looking at the picture of the dial I've provided, please confirm which of the two pulsing springs contact should be connected to the hookswitch.

Thanks
Tonpat

[poplar1]

Does your phone have a terminal strip with 8 terminals? The diagram I got from TCI is a schematic that does not include the terminals. With the terminal strip, connections are not made directly from the hookswitch to the dial. The pulsing contacts are connected to Terminal 3 and Terminal 4.

Electrically, it doesn't matter which of the 2 pulsing contact goes to the hookswitch, since (unlike later AE circuits) there is no strap connecting the pulsing contacts to the shunt contacts. However, I am sure that originally a certain one went to terminal 3 and the other to terminal 4.

It looks like someone created the diagram for use with WE 302 base by modifying this diagram (see attachment):

[Tonpat]

Yes Poplar1,
My phone does have a terminal strip with 8 terminals. I've also come across that diagram and another one which says if connected to an anti-sidetone (which I assume the 302 is one such subset) then the receiver should be connected to 5 and 7 on the terminals - is that correct? Going back to the pulsing springs again what is not clear to me is which contact should be connected to the hookswitch at the terminal strip (when looking physically at the dial, like in the picture I've provided.

Thanks

[poplar1]

Do you know for certain that the receiver is good? You can connect it to a battery to hear the click, or check resistance with a voltmeter. Also check the cords for continuity.

Electrically, it doesn't matter which of the 2 pulsing contact goes to the hookswitch, since (unlike later AE circuits) there is no strap connecting the pulsing contacts to the shunt contacts. However, I am sure that originally a certain one went to terminal 3 and the other to terminal 4. Your dial is older than the one used in most AE 21s.

I don't know about the receiver hookup, if different from the original AE diagram  for use with AE subset. I haven't studied the first diagram I posted enough to know if any changes were made in the phone, other than adding a 4th conductor in the cord to the subset. Some of the AE collectors will be able to tell us, for example, if there are sidetone AE21s and anti-sidetone. (With WE it's easy to tell by whether there are 3 conductors (ST) or 4 conductors (AST) to the subset.)

I am more familiar with Western Electric equipment. Connecting a WE sidetone candlestick to an anti-sidetone subset or 302 base doesn't work well because there are not enough contacts in the hookswitch.

[stub]

AE 21 to WE subset.  stub

[Tonpat]

Thanks Stub,

Much appreciated. It's not always that I can get to work right away on my ongoing projects like this but I'll keep you guys updated.

Tonpat

[Tonpat]

I've managed to get my phone working with the wiring diagram provided by stub. But the main problem of having no dial tone was to do with the shunt spring contact "blades" which are still giving problems at times cause every now and then I need to toy with them with the tip of my screwdriver. Since this problem is recurrent and intermittent, I think a permanent solution would be either; a) get the spring assembly or the whole dial adjusted by someone who knows how to do this and has the required tools, b) replace the spring assembly only if that's possible or c) replace the whole dial (which I'm not incline to do as Stub has pointed out it looks to be a very early one and not too common).

By the way the pdf diagram provided by Stub looks to be the one before a correction was made where the link between terminal 1 and 8 was later removed. I think this could be an oversight by Stub as he was the person who initially posted the jpeg image from which that diagram was later drawn by Jeff Lamb (according to posts I've come across March 20, 2018).

Thanks everyone
Tonpat

[HarrySmith]

Steve Hilsz can fix it for $6.00

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=4385.0

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=4385.msg183120#msg183120