News:

"The phone is a remarkably complex, simple device,
and very rarely ever needs repairs, once you fix them." - Dan/Panther

Main Menu

Kapsch & Söhne 1930's metal deskset

Started by tubaman, March 02, 2019, 03:37:07 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

tubaman

I must stop looking at eBay Germany as now I've got this.
€58 + €18  postage (£68.97 after conversion) so I don't know if I paid a bit much but it's a very interesting phone.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Telefono-altee-Central-Battery-apparatus-Henkel-Phone-by-Kapsch-/323696101196

"Telefon, Altes österreichisches Wählscheibentelefon. Sog. Henkelapparat von Kapsch
Nummernschalter läuft sauber ab, Apparat offensichtlich unverbastelt, Funktion nicht getestet."

Google translates to "Telephone, Old Austrian dial telephone. Suction. Henkel apparatus of Kapsch
Number switch runs off cleanly, apparatus apparently unabridged, function not tested." (I'm sure someone here can do a bit better).

Appears to date to 1936 and looks totally original - cords and all. Just need to find some feet for it.
Note the numbering on the dial - apparently Austria used this system until 1950.
I also found this nice document about the history of the company, and my phone is on page 72 - https://www.125yearsofkapsch.net/users/pdf/Kapsch_EN_online.pdf
:)

ma_xyz

Congrats. Very nice phone. Rare and in very good condition!

According to the book "100 Jahre Telefonie in Oesterreich" (Hundert Years of Telephony in Austria, Vienna, 1981) this type of dial was used in Vienna from 1925 to 1957 (6 digit numbers, where the first digit was represented as letter (zylmurbafi).
In 1957 the system was changed to "normal", 1 at 1 and 0 at 10 impulses and no more use of letters.

rdelius

Interesting that the dial is based on an AE design

tubaman

Quote from: rdelius on March 02, 2019, 09:52:15 AM
Interesting that the dial is based on an AE design

Yes, very like an AE dial but it does have the Kapsch & Söhne logo on it.  Did AE allow other companies to make them under license, or was their design never patented?

Quote from: ma_xyz on March 02, 2019, 06:28:05 AM
Congrats. Very nice phone. Rare and in very good condition!
.....

Thanks - yes it is in pretty good shape. There's a bit of light rust around the bottom edge of the case but I'm not going to try and do anything with it.
It's over 80 years old so I don't mind it showing a bit of age!
:)

rdelius

That dial was designed in the mid 20s so the design patent (if one was issued)would have expired bu the early 40s.ATEA in Belgium or Autelco in Italy might have licenced it also

tubaman

#5
I always struggle with how much I should pay for a phone like this when I have no similar sales to compare with.
For this one my top bid was just over €60 and I guess as I won at €58 I was about right.
It's a super phone and I don't regret paying what I did, so I suppose that's the most important thing.
:)

ma_xyz

Quote from: rdelius on March 02, 2019, 12:36:44 PM
That dial was designed in the mid 20s so the design patent (if one was issued)would have expired bu the early 40s.ATEA in Belgium or Autelco in Italy might have licenced it also

ATEA (from 1926 on) and Autelco (from 1936 on) were in fact the European subsidiaries of Automatic Electric.

Etienne

Here is mine after gluing the pieces back together and some cleanup. Cf  http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=717.510
That 1947 Tragring is a real mess inside. The induction coil comes from a french phone (Bobine P.T.T. 323/100, dated 1949), a PTT 1941. Diagram is missing. Dial has a missing wire and the springs needed new alignment. At least, it looks quite good.
By the way, the book cited by Countryman states these phones to be casted. Mine has a stamped metal case, and the cradle is made of bakelite. The only casted metal part is the ring.

RDPipes

Both are sweet look'en phones gentlemen!

Etienne

Thanks!
The cradle on my late Tragring is bakelite, on Tubaman's phone it is cast metal, with a very different, much finer shape.
I suppose Kapsch switched to bakelite during the war to save some iron.

P.S. In Tubaman's phone description, "Sog." does of course not mean "suction" but "sogenannter" = so-called.

tubaman

#10
@Etienne,I hadn't spotted the cradle difference and just assumed it was cast metal like my one, hence mentioning superglue for fixing it, which also happens to work well with bakelite.
Nice repair job - it looks good.
Appears yours is a multi-line or manager/secretary version given the extra buttons and indicator on the front.
 :)

Etienne

the rear top screws holding the chassis are different, too. On your early version they are also used as cradle stops. That was probably much more resistant when the handset was brutally hung up.