WE 302 - Initial Questions

[Lewes2]

OK, just received my first "old" phone.  It's a 1941 WE 302 I purchased off of EBAY.  Most of the metal case is in really good condition but it's showing heavy wear around the cradle - bare metal. 

I opened it up this morning and was presently surprised - all the innards are marked April 1941 - or II41.  Appears the only new item is a six conductor plastic line or wall cable -  four of the conductors are crimped off.  The handset cord is black rubber with black/white/red conductors.  Both in the hand set and in the phone itself, the conductors appear to be original, faded.

It rings and talks but does not dial out (Vonage household circuit).  Out SC 2500 with pulse, does dial out fine.  When I try with the 302, I get a signal that the phone is off the hook.  My guess is the dial action is too slow for Vonage.

I plan to try blowing the dial (5H II41) with compressed air first and if that doesn't work, send it out to the gentleman who specializes in fixing dials.  (cannot remember his name - book marked at home)

Question:  when you are rehabilitating these phones, are you replacing all the internal wiring?  I mean the phone is working but that wiring looks so fragile.  If you are replacing the wiring, is there a source for the rubber coated copper wire and spades? 

That's all for now.  I will have more questions as I go.  I also have some good photos to share, if you are interested.

Thanks

chuck

[HarrySmith]

Hi Chuck! Welcome to the asylum!
Is this your only old phone? If so, get out now!!
Hanging around here will cause phones to pile up everywhere, all your time & money will be spent on or looking for phones! We call it Phonitis, it is a progressive incurable disease. You don't have to believe me just look around, check out some of the "collection" (read: Hoard) pictures!
As for the 302, nice start, I love the metal ones. Have you compared the wiring to a diagram? Anything can & does happen in the life of a phone, previous owner(s) may have changed something. I do not think anyone here has replaced all the wiring in a phone during restoration but if it floats your boat, you can take this obsession to a whole new level

[unbeldi]

Some RS contact cleaner sprayed into the dial gears works very well very often.
You can often test whether the dial is too slow by applying just a little more return force with a finger in the number hole when the dial returns.

The old wiring in these phones rarely needs replacing; it has lasted 60 or 70 years and another 10 or 20 won't make much difference, unless you make it a habit to twist or bend them many times.

Hmm, are you saying that when you take the phone off-hook you immediately get the fast busy as if it had been off-hook for a while?  If so, the hookswitch doesn't disengage the phone properly, or the ringer circuit is loading the line too much.

[Lewes2]

Too Late, Harry.  I'm already "hooked."  And my wife is showing an uncommon interest in this new "interest."

When I lift the handset,  I get a dial tone.  I get the off the hook signal (the one before the loud screechy one) after dialing a number. 

I'll try the contact cleaner.  Does it leave a residue?  Another thread cautioned about leaving "dust collector residues". 

I'll also try forcing a bit more speed to return to see what happens.  Good idea.

chuck

[unbeldi]

Too Late, Harry.  I'm already "hooked."  And my wife is showing an uncommon interest in this new "interest."

When I lift the handset,  I get a dial tone.  I get the off the hook signal (the one before the loud screechy one) after dialing a number. 

I'll try the contact cleaner.  Does it leave a residue?  Another thread cautioned about leaving "dust collector residues". 

I'll also try forcing a bit more speed to return to see what happens.  Good idea.

chuck

The contact cleaner I have used (from Radio Shack) doesn't leave a residue, it only rearranges the existing residues from 70 years of being in the elements so that contacts and gears work better.  Such contact cleaners are actually meant to be sprayed even into more delicate electronics than an old WECo dial.   The analogy perhaps is using bicycle oil on a tank.

I don't know what other "Off-hook signals" there are. The phone only asserts loop current when it goes off-hook by closing its contacts.  The dial tone is the off-hook acknowledgement from the exchange, switch or ATA to signal that it's ready to accept dialing.  After the exchange recognizes the first digit, dial tone stops.  What do you hear instead?
It should be quiet after the first digit is sent, or else, if the digit is not recognized dial tone continues.

[poplar1]

Does Vonage even recognize any rotary phones, even properly adjusted ones?

[Phonesrfun]

I was a Vonage customer for about 7 years and went through 2 ATA's, and it worked with all my rotary phones except those that had a sidetone subset with the common ringing/talking condenser.  For those I was fine with disconnecting the ringer.  If not, it mis-dialed.  All other phones worked great.  My first Vonage ATA was a Motorola VT1005.  The second was a private label Vonage with no manufacturer label.


I switched about a year ago to my cable co, which also supports rotary

[HarrySmith]

If your wife is getting interested let her know they come in colors! She can match the décor in any room!

[paul-f]

I'll try the contact cleaner.  Does it leave a residue?  Another thread cautioned about leaving "dust collector residues". 

Welcome Chuck.

You need to closely check the "ingredients" on the can.  Some contain additives, such as lubricants.  These are to be avoided, as they attract and hold dust. 

Any good industrial "degreaser" without additives can usually be safely used.  Note, however, that some melt plastics,so a test on something expendable is a wise move.

The desired action is to dissolve and float out any accumulated foreign matter that causes friction.  Several applications may be needed for stubborn cases.  Ideally the junk washes away and the cleaner evaporates, leaving clean surfaces.

Key spots that need lubrication can then be sparingly spot lubricated, as described in several dial servicing topics on the forum.

[Lewes2]

Let's see -

Yes, Vonage recognizes pulse rotaries - my wifes WE 500 dials out fine on Vonage.  (I have been mistakenly referring to her phone as a 2500 - in fact, it's a 500 rotary, the orange one. I have a 2500 on my desk - sorry for the confusion).

And Harry, she prefers the black phones and now has her heart set on a WE 202.  We agreed to get the 302 "right" first before moving on to the 202. 

I think I have some Radio Shack contact cleaner in the garage from some project in the past.  A project for this evening while watching the Nats go for 11 straight wins! 

Chuck

[dsk]

Hi, and welcome.
Even when we have a unit who looks so simple as a 302, it is several possibilities to make it fail, dial speed may be one of them.
The first test would be to wind up the dial to 0 together with a known working telephone, and listen (look) for differences in the time it uses to return to rest position.

If the difference are more than about 10 % it may be a reason to start measuring. 

I do not know what you have of instruments, but just removing the telephone from the line and hook it up to your PC microphone jack and making a recording of some 0 dialed are just perfect. The sound file are enough to make a reliable evaluation. Recordings of the known working rotaries may illustrate whats OK for the ATA. Then the goal will be tune into something close to the working dial.
Take a look here: http://tinyurl.com/qj3dhaz

Of-course we will help you trough this presses.

dsk

[andre_janew]

I have a 302A phone.  I am trying to add a 6J3 dial to it.  The dial has a date of 8-63.  When I hook the dial up the phone goes dead.  It isn't shorted out because when another phone is hooked up with it, the other phone has dial tone.  I figure it is one of three things.  First, I could have the dial wired up wrong.  Second, maybe the dial is too new for the phone.  Third, maybe the dial is no good.  Most of the phone was made in 1946. The transmitter is the one lone part made in 1937.  What can I do to get it to work with the dial?

[andre_janew]

Thanks to unbeldi and popular1, I have solved my problem.  By doing some rewiring, the 6J3 dial now works with my 302 phone.  I do, however, have to keep the handset away from my ear when dialing.  It is an inconvenience I can live with.  I'm glad I contacted you guys!

[Kenton K]

Does anybody have the pile-up for the 6J type dial? Just curious.

[unbeldi]

Does anybody have the pile-up for the 6J type dial? Just curious.

You've been missing a whole discussion thread:  http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=12832.0