Classic Rotary Phones Forum

Telephone Talk => Auction Talk => Topic started by: Stormcrash on July 27, 2020, 12:49:35 PM

Title: Endicott Ivory 500
Post by: Stormcrash on July 27, 2020, 12:49:35 PM
Was browsing eBay when I came across this ivory WE 500. Other than being dirty it looked in excellent shape, 11/56 manufacture so soft plastic with the nice feet and no signs of rust. Then I noticed the seller location, an area I used to live, and number card with no area code.  A little searching showed the exchange being for Endicott NY. This got me much more interested as along with being the birthplace of IBM I lived in Endicott for a few years out of college, so I bid and won the phone for $23.59 + $10.00 shipping!

A bonus after it arrived is that it's a date matching set, all components dated between 9 and 11 1956! I took it apart and was surprised when a lot of the "dirt" wouldn't come off the plastic with soap and water, but Novus 2 & 1 have cleaned it up nicely. Only real blemish is some extremely minor blistering on the left side where the handset cord touched it for a long period of time, but it's only visible in very direct light. Handset cord cleaned up alright but might put a new one on if I can find one with the right look, and need a proper line cord as that was missing.

Only issue I'm having is with the ringer. In the resting position the clapper seems to be magnetized to the side quite strongly, much more so than my 59 or 62 500 sets. It takes noticeably more force to actuate off normal, and the ringer coil (which is slightly loose) doesn't seem to have force to pull it free. If I slip a sheet of paper between the clapper and resting bar/magnet though that separation is enough to allow it to ring. Any ideas what might be causing the stronger magnetization and how to fix it?

The phone is still disassembled, but once it's together I'll put up some pictures of the result. In  the meantime here's some of the photos from the auction
Title: Re: Endicott Ivory 500
Post by: Stormcrash on July 27, 2020, 12:50:21 PM
Forgot the auction link and photo

Title: Re: Endicott Ivory 500
Post by: Jim Stettler on July 27, 2020, 01:07:57 PM
Did you try moving the ringer bias "spring". It is the stiff wire next to the clapper.
Many times ringer issues can be corrected by moving the bias spring.
Title: Re: Endicott Ivory 500
Post by: Stormcrash on July 27, 2020, 01:22:52 PM
I already adjusted the bias spring to the low setting, forgot to mention that, but thanks for the thought :)

In past run ins with the spring you normally hear the ringer click a little as it tries to move, but with this even on low when it's stuck it's dead silent. I did get the ringer a little unstuck yesterday after running it with some paper inside (the paper picked up a little bit of dirt) but it's still not reliable. There may be some other adjustments needed as well as it doesn't seem like the stopper arm leaves any room for the clapper to move if the volume adjustment is set all the way low, but it's hard to tell with the other issue the clapper is having
Title: Re: Endicott Ivory 500
Post by: Stormcrash on July 30, 2020, 05:17:24 PM
Finally put the phone back together after letting the parts air out well after cleaning. It's quite the improvement
Title: Re: Endicott Ivory 500
Post by: Doug Rose on July 30, 2020, 09:05:18 PM
That came out fantastic!  Really nice just shines.

I love the name you gave it, like Oxford Grey or Mediterranean Blue.....Endicott Ivory  8)

Beautiful phone at a really Beautiful price.....congrats....Doug
Title: Re: Endicott Ivory 500
Post by: Stormcrash on July 30, 2020, 09:43:13 PM
Thanks Doug, I'm quite happy with how it cleaned up. It still has it's flaws but I can't believe how nicely the Tenite shined up from Novus 2 & 1 followed by a rinse with soap and water. And also after letting the plastics dry and air out for a few days after cleaning there's no smell to it at all :)

And lol, I suppose the better description would be the Ivory from Endicott, but you're right it does make a fun color name  ;D

Aldo think I might have figured out my ringer issues, I think the capacitor between A and K on the network is going bad. When combined the leads onto one terminal the clapper was held actuated by the current but the ringing action got a lot stronger. I pulled out another phone and wired into A and K on it's network and the ringer rang loud and clear. Guess the clapper on this set is just a bit stiffer (or the magnet a touch stronger) but not the root cause of my problem.
Title: Re: Endicott Ivory 500
Post by: JorgeAmely on July 30, 2020, 10:21:01 PM
Congrats, good detective work.
Title: Re: Endicott Ivory 500
Post by: Stormcrash on July 31, 2020, 06:49:59 PM
Thanks Jorge :)

I had wedged a slip of paper on either side of the clapper to see if it would weaken the magnetization if left like that. But I found that if I rang the phone with the paper in it would slowly get stronger. At first I was thinking it might be the magnetic field but then noticed if I stopped ringing for a bit and restarted it would be initially weak again. That got me thinking of the capacitor as maybe it was building some performance as it ran. Still odd that if I removed the paper the increased pull of the magnet would bog things back down again, guess the full resistance of the magnet was too much for the weakened capacitor and would drain it back down.

I bought some capacitors on Amazon and should have them tomorrow. Unfortunately my multimeter doesn't measure capacitance so I don't know how the network capacitor is currently performing so I will probably try bypassing it completely
Title: Re: Endicott Ivory 500
Post by: JorgeAmely on August 01, 2020, 12:15:38 AM
If your capacitor has a leak, there is a small chance of being able to measure it with a digital voltmeter. Most likely, a lightning strike years ago shorted the cap and that's why it doesn't work. Just choose something in the 300-volt range with a capacitance value in the low digit microfarads. The capacitor is there to prevent DC from flowing through the ringer windings when no one is calling. When the 20 Hz, 90-100 VAC shows up, the capacitor is intended to look like a short, thus allowing the ringer to ring.

Never use you teeth as a third hand to hold a phone line in your mouth: there is a chance someone can call when you have the leads in your mouth and give you a nasty shock. I know someone in this forum who did that and the experience was not pleasant.  ;)

PS: Don't take a ringer apart: even if you put it back together exactly like it was before, the magnetic flux in the circuit will go down significantly and will never ring the same.
Title: Re: Endicott Ivory 500
Post by: Stormcrash on August 01, 2020, 02:01:32 AM
Thankfully in searching about ringer issues I came across the threads warning not to disassemble the ringer so I knew not to do that. When I was messing with the leads there was some gunk/oxidation on the spade, screw and socket of the K terminal so I'm wondering if the capacitor has simply broken down and leaked electrolyte. I only have a cheap multimeter on hand but when I was investigating the coils in resistance mode the capacitor showed as an open line rather than a short.

And lol I've heard similar advice from other volunteers at the Connections Museum about not putting a phone line in your mouth, -48V DCis bad enough
Title: Re: Endicott Ivory 500
Post by: JorgeAmely on August 01, 2020, 12:18:47 PM
Since polarity doesn't matter in the ringer capacitor, I doubt they use a polarized electrolytic cap. Most likely what you see is just oxidation from a cofee spill on the phone. Plus the network on these old phones is encapsulated in a waxy substance that would not allow that stuff to leak out.
Title: Re: Endicott Ivory 500
Post by: Stormcrash on August 01, 2020, 10:00:00 PM
Got the new capacitor installed today. I initially tried it in parallel across the A and K terminals but found that the old capacitor still affected the ringer. So I put the two wires together on the A terminal and put the capacitor between L1 and G. The set was wired for a 3 conductor mounting cord with G and L1 tied together at the terminal block, so I just undid the third wire to G and put the capacitor to L1 in its place.

Ringer rings quite nicely now. Only odd thing is that on the softest setting the clapper only strikes the movable gong and is rather soft. It rings both gongs on the other settings and is perfectly loud otherwise to I'm just gonna call it a quirk of this particular ringer