I picked up this space saver some time ago. I turned a model 500 into a subset, but I can't seem to dial out (I do have pulse service here).
If I rotate the dial, it breaks tone. As soon as it returns to rest, dial tone comes back.
Wiring is as follows...
Subset:
L2- Red line in, Red Ringer, Yellow Phone lead
L1- green line in, black ringer, Jumper (to RR)
RR- jumper to L1
K- white ringer
A- red-white ringer
R- red phone lead
B- black phone lead
Gn- green phone lead
Telephone:
Terminal block-
Gn- green subset lead
W- yellow dial lead (to bb)
Y- yellow subset lead
Bk right- black subset lead
Bk left- black dial (to y)
B- yellow handset (handset has 2 white leads. Lets call thisnone yellow)
(Lets call this terminal R. The stamp wore off) R- red subset lead and red handset.
Dial-
W- white handset
Any thoughts? Much obliged!
Do you have a wire from the space saver connected to C on the network (in the 500)?
L2----Y hookswitch------X------ BK hookswitch-----Y dial---/---BK dial-------C network
X = normally open contact
/ = normally closed contact
Is this a G1, G3, or F1 handset? If G-type, then the red wire and one of the two white wires from the handset connect together on R terminal in the space saver, and a wire connects R in phone to R in the 500.
Black handset wire goes to B on network in the 500.
I'll give that a try. It is an F1 handset.
Perhaps I'm doing something wrong here, but I can't seem to get it to dial out. I've tried a jumper from BK to C, but I can't seem to make complete sense of the other wiring instructions...
Pictures would probably be helpful.
Pictures...
There should be only one wire on the BK brass hookswitch terminal, that is, a spade-tipped jumper wire from there to Y on the dial. (There are 2 other black wires shown on this BK brass terminal in your photo.)
Andy ... Attached is a schematic to connect a Western or Northern 211 to a 685-A subscriber set. Your "dethroned" 500 set is basically now a 685-A subset without the terminal board that a proper 685 subset has. Both a "jpeg and pdf" version are attached. Click on jpeg to enlarge.
The schematic shows and / or explains the set equipped with an F-1 and a "G" series handset. The schematic doesn't actually show a ringer connected to it, but if your 500 set's ringer is a standard C4, then the ringer connections are as follows : Red connects to "L2" on the network
Black connects to "L1" on the network
Slate connects to "K" on the network
Slate - Red connects to "A" on the network.
Good luck.
Jeff Lamb
Just a heads up. Your red ringer wire is on the wrong terminal. It's on G and should be on L2, as Jeff indicated. Also you say that L1 is jumpered to RR and it's not. It's jumpered to F, which agrees with Jeff's diagram, so I'd leave that one there. But then Y on the phone needs to hook there as well.
Well, I'll attach pictures of the present wiring. Any extra jumpers from the phone will be replaced once my order of 6 conductor line cord arrives (ran out).
Still can not dial out...i believe I have this matching the wiring diagram...
I do know the red ringer wire belongs on L2. I moved it to G to disable the ringer for now. While setting it up to test, the phone rang. I don't absolutely need the ringer on This to work...i only.put on the subset in hopes of.making the telephone functional, and to muffle the volume of the handset.
Andy .... On the older anti side tone subscriber sets, such as the 584 and 684 types, there was in fact a conductor which connected the "R" terminal on the dial, to the "R" terminal on the terminal board inside the 211 telephone. The mounting cord which ran from the 211 to the subset, connected the "R" terminal on the terminal board inside the 211, to the "R" terminal on the "101-A" induction coil inside the previously mentioned subscriber sets. However, when the 211 telephone is connected to a 685-A subset that uses a 425 network, which is basically what you now have by using the network in a 500 set, there is no connection between the "R" terminal on the dial and the "R" terminal on the terminal board inside the base of the 211, which in turn would eliminate the connection between the terminal board inside the 211 telephone and the "R" terminal on the network inside the 685-A subset.
It's hard to trace your circuits from several different pictures, but it does appear that there is a wired connection between the "R" terminal on the dial and the "R" terminal on the 211 terminal board.
Bottom line here, is try disconnecting the conductor which connects the "R" terminal on the back of the dial, and the "R" terminal on the terminal board inside the 211 telephone.
Jeff
Well, the R dial wire was removed. No change...here is the current wiring list...
Subset
L2- red line in, Jumper to Subset C
G- Red Ringer (temporarily disabled ringer)
L1- black ringer, green line in, Jumper to F
K- slate ringer
A- slate-red ringer
F- l1 jumper, yellow phone lead (to Y)
RR- blue phone lead (connected to B)
C- jumper to Subset l2
G- green phone lead (to GN)
B- black phone lead (to BK)
R- Red Phone lead (to R)
Phone Dial
M/w- white handset lead
Y- black lead (to bk)
Bk- brown lead to B
Bb- white lead to W
Phone terminals
B- blue to Subset RR, brown to Dial Bk
R- red handset lead, Red subset lead to R
Gn- green subset to Gn
Y- yellow subset lead to F
BK- black lead to Subset B, black handset, black lead to dial Y)
Thoughts?
Quote from: Vacuumlad1650 on February 23, 2018, 06:54:12 PM
Phone terminals
B- blue to Subset RR, brown to Dial Bk
R- red handset lead, Red subset lead to R
Gn- green subset to Gn
Y- yellow subset lead to F
BK- black lead to Subset B, black handset, black lead to dial Y)
Thoughts?
BK on hookswitch should have only one wire: a spade tipped jumper wire going to Y on the dial.
Black handset wire does NOT go here! Nor does the black wire to the subset.
B on the network in the subset goes directly to the black handset wire ONLY (see below).
R on network goes directly to red handset wire only (using R on terminal block).
BK on dial goes to RR in the subset.
Since you don't have enough blind terminals (R and B on the black phenol terminal block on left), you might want to connect RR in subset directly to BK on dial. This will free up the B terminal (now empty if you go directly from RR subset to BK dial). (There is a BL (blue) blind terminal shown on Jeff's diagram. That BL terminal was added on later G6 and G7 mountings, but the BL terminal isn't on your G1 MTG.)
Now that the B terminal is empty, use it to connect the black handset wire to the wire going to B in the subset.
Quote from: Ktownphoneco on February 23, 2018, 10:44:21 AM
..... However, when the 211 telephone is connected to a 685-A subset that uses a 425 network, which is basically what you now have by using the network in a 500 set, there is no connection between the "R" terminal on the dial and the "R" terminal on the terminal board inside the base of the 211, which in turn would eliminate the connection between the terminal board inside the 211 telephone and the "R" terminal on the network inside the 685-A subset.
Yes, remove the jumper from R on dial to R on the terminal block. However, the red handset wire still goes to R on terminal block in the 211, and so does the (red) conductor going to R on the network in the 500/subset. (This conforms to your diagram.)
Now it works perfectly! Thank you all for the help!
If you have an extra 500 (or 425 network) lying around, you could use it to better understand the 500-type circuit.
Input (telephone line) to network = RR and C
(The line can be connected directly to RR and C, or you can use L1 and L2 (blind terminals) then strap L1 to RR and L2 to C.)
Output =
GN = Receiver. (White)
B = Transmitter. (Black)
R= Common transmitter and receiver (Red for F1 handset OR Red and White for G1)
Now, if connected this way, the line would be "off-hook" all the time.
So if you have used the straps to connect L1 to RR and L2 to C, then removing either ONE of these straps will disconnect the line.
The dial also opens the line, for example 7 times if you dial a 7.
So, if you have a manual (non-dial) phone, you would replace one of the straps with two wires going to the hookswitch. Thus you would now have 7 wires from the 425 network = 2 (input) for the line + 3 (output) for the handset + 2 for the hookswitch.
If we add the dial pulsing circuit (Y and BK on a 5H dial), we can simply insert it in series with the hookswitch, so that hanging up or dialing will open the circuit.
In Jeff's diagram, notice that we leave the strap from L2 to C, but we remove the strap from L1 to RR and replace it with a strap from L1 to F. Then there are 2 wires from F and RR to the phone. When the phone is off-hook and the dial is at rest, then there is continuity -- through Y and BK of the hookswitch, through the jumper wire from BK on hookswitch to Y on dial, through the normally closed dial pulsing contacts to BK on dial, then from BK on dial to RR on network.
Thus when off-hook and with the dial idle, there is a path from L1 to RR and L2 to C.
The black and red handset wires still go to B and R on the network.
Although the phone would still work with the white receiver wire going to GN on the network, there would be a loud pop in the receiver when hanging up, and clicks in the receiver whenever the dial was outpulsing. So, the receiver can be wired in series with the other hookswitch contacts (GN and W), and the dial BB and W contacts. When the phone is off-hook and the dial at rest, there will be continuity from GN on the network, to GN on the hookswitch, through the GN and W hookswitch contacts, through the jumper from W on hookswitch to BB on dial, through the normally closed BB and W dial contacts, then through the white handset cord to W in handset to receiver. Thus, there is continuity from GN on network to W in handset.
Note that when the 211 or 202 is used with a 500-type network/set/network type (685A)subset, the transmitter (black) is completely isolated from the switches (dial pulse and hookswitch).
When a 211 or 202 is used with an anti-sidetone subset (684, 634, or base of a 302), 4 wires are used between the phone and the subset, and black handset wire is on BK of the dial.
If you obtain a 202 or a 211 with F1 or E1 handset, it will usually have the black handset wire on BK of the dial. All you have to do is remove that black wire and connect it (using a new 5th conductor) to B on the network. Also remove the red jumper to R on the dial (211), or move the 2 red wires (in a 202) from R on the dial to the unused R terminal on the right.