Need help with getting voice out on a WE D1

[USS656]

Have a 202 D1 with a E1 handset that I just bought from an auction house.  After wiring it like this thread says I was able to get everything working except voice out.  Any suggestions? Have already replaced the 2 wire cable shown with a cloth 4 wire cable. I did move the black wire in the handset from the back terminal to the terminal labeled Bk.  Hope these pictures work.  Thank you for your help!!!

Will ask more questions later about an WE ringer box and how to test it and then connect it to the phone.  Right now going through and cleaning it up (really rough shape) and resoldering all of the wires inside.  Not sure of the model but from what is left of the diagram on the door it says P-244070 if that helps.  Will post a picture of it later.

[dsk]

Looks like the Red wire on the dial touch the next wire.

dsk

[unbeldi]

.

[USS656]

Thank you for responding Unbeldi

I have posted a new picture with the cloth 4 conductor wiring and I still have the same issue.  I believe I have it matching what is in the diagram you posted.  If you see something specific I missed please let me know.  The one difference between the diagram and my phone is that the white wire is located on the other side of the center assembly.

Best Regards

Darryl

[USS656]

Looks like the Red wire on the dial touch the next wire.

dsk

Fixed that,  you can see the updated post.    Still doesn't work though. 

[poplar1]

Is the other end of the new 4-conductor cord connected to the subset, or are you trying to connect the phone directly to the telephone line?

[USS656]

Is the other end of the new 4-conductor cord connected to the subset, or are you trying to connect the phone directly to the telephone line?

Direct to wall jack

[TelePlay]

Direct to wall jack

You will be getting a few replies saying this is not the best thing to do with any phone and especially one with an E1.

It is possible to use a "cheater" circuit (I once received a phone with one in) which is better than not having a cheater circuit but a sujbset is best. This is one topic that discusses the cheater circuit among other things. This one was done in the line cord, mine was received with the circuit in the base.

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=2849.msg39770#msg39770

[poplar1]

Direct to wall jack

That explains why your transmitter is not working: in the wall jack, only the red and green are connected. If you follow where they go, the green goes through the hookswitch (GN and W), then through the dial (BB and W) to the W terminal on the dial. So, when the phone is off-hook, your receiver (white and red handset wires -- or yellow and red in your picture) is connected to the line, but the transmitter (black wire) is not connected, and neither is the dial pulsing circuit (Y and BK on the dial).

Please provide the photo of your subset (bell box).

[unbeldi]

Direct to wall jack

Without a subset you have only one half of a telephone.  Your half, the desk set, has two wires for the transmitter, and two wires for the receiver.  While you can use one wire as a common wire for both, reducing this to three wires, there is no way to connect three wires to the telephone line, which has only two wires, without losing the function of either the transmitter or the receiver.  The translation from a four-wire interface to a two-wire line is accomplished by what is called a hybrid, otherwise also known as an induction coil.  This device is a component of the subset.  In addition, the subset contains a ringer.

PS:  That said, one arrangement of a transmitter and a receiver is to wire them in series. This was the arrangement for the first 20 years of telephony, and in some cases for primitive service, for example intercom systems, another 20 years.   Some people will tell you to do this with your more sophisticated telephone of the 1920s and thirties, but those are not designed for that, and it cannot be done while maintaining the proper wiring of the set, unless one uses some kind of conversion device, such as the example Teleplay provided.

[USS656]

That explains why your transmitter is not working: in the wall jack, only the red and green are connected. If you follow where they go, the green goes through the hookswitch (GN and W), then through the dial (BB and W) to the W terminal on the dial. So, when the phone is off-hook, your receiver (white and red handset wires -- or yellow and red in your picture) is connected to the line, but the transmitter (black wire) is not connected, and neither is the dial pulsing circuit (Y and BK on the dial).

Please provide the photo of your subset (bell box).

Attempted to rewire and will do it right with new wire on Monday when I return to work.  By the time I cut back the damaged wire the length was too short for the condenser.  No idea if it works/worked or not when I bought it? Figured for 15 it was worth the risk. Never done anything with wiring a phone so what you describe I am sure make sense to you but I am new to it so I believe you!   

[USS656]

Without a subset you have only one half of a telephone.  Your half, the desk set, has two wires for the transmitter, and two wires for the receiver.  While you can use one wire as a common wire for both, reducing this to three wires, there is no way to connect three wires to the telephone line, which has only two wires, without losing the function of either the transmitter or the receiver.  The translation from a four-wire interface to a two-wire line is accomplished by what is called a hybrid, otherwise also known as an induction coil.  This device is a component of the subset.  In addition, the subset contains a ringer.

PS:  That said, one arrangement of a transmitter and a receiver is to wire them in series. This was the arrangement for the first 20 years of telephony, and in some cases for primitive service, for example intercom systems, another 20 years.   Some people will tell you to do this with your more sophisticated telephone of the 1920s and thirties, but those are not designed for that, and it cannot be done while maintaining the proper wiring of the set, unless one uses some kind of conversion device, such as the example Teleplay provided.

I guess my plan of getting one thing working at a time is not such a good plan after all.  LOL - thank you for the thorough explanation!

Hopefully my sub box will work with the type of phone I have. 

[USS656]

This phone in our family room was part of the deal when we bought the house and works great!  Looking at what I can see I figured how hard can it be to buy another old phone to add to my office. Have to wonder now what's behind that dialer?  I work in technology so thought I could figure it out - it's like driving and directions right?    Only ask for them when you are really lost.  I appreciate the help!!!

[unbeldi]

Your subset contains the proper parts in that it has an induction coil, the black coil with wooden blocks at each end, and the ringer, and most likely a capacitor (condenser) underneath the wooden connection board. However, this is an older type that was used with the class of telephones before your 202-type desk set.
It can be made to work though with your set, but you will lose some sound quality. You will hear your own voice quite loudly.

I believe this is a variety of the 295A subscriber sets. Is there something like that punched into the wood?
The induction coil in this set is a No. 20 for common battery service, I believe.

This type of subscriber set only uses three wires to the desk set, essentially in the manner that I described earlier.  The fourth wire is not used, but you don't have to rewire the desk set. Simply do not connect the black wire.

Looks like someone has crimped new spade connectors to the wires inside.  It is hard to see where they go, despite adjusting the lighting of your picture.

[USS656]

Your subset contains the proper parts in that it has an induction coil, the black coil with wooden blocks at each end, and the ringer, and most likely a capacitor (condenser) underneath the wooden connection board. However, this is an older type that was used with the class of telephones before your 202-type desk set.
It can be made to work though with your set, but you will lose some sound quality. You will hear your own voice quite loudly.

I believe this is a variety of the 295A subscriber sets. Is there something like that punched into the wood?
The induction coil in this set is a No. 20 for common battery service, I believe.

Coil says IND NO 46

There is something stamped in the wood but I can not make it out and what I can looks more like letters.