Chevy Corvair or Vega

[AE_Collector]

I can't quite determine if that rusted metal in one of the pictures is the baseplate of a phone or a front fender off of a Chevy Vega? Thought there would be a CHevrolet Badge if it were the Vega fender but the badge likely fell off too.

Terry

PS: Here's the original picture from this thread that started this discusssion.
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=3233.0

Terry

[Phonesrfun]

I don't know which Chevy was worse;  The Vega or the Corvair.  Probably getting far afield, now.

[AE_Collector]

I don't know which Chevy was worse;  The Vega or the Corvair.  Probably getting far afield, now.

Do you mean rust problems with Corvairs or just other problems in general? Did you know that there was a Buick version of the corvair? Pretty rare and I can't recall the model name now but there is a nicely restored one running around here.

Terry

[Dennis Markham]

Maybe Buick Corsa?  Wish I could say I remembered that but I just Googled it!

http://www.corvaircorsa.com/brekke01.html

I think a Corvair is worth more today than a Vega.  That probably makes the Vega worse.  I remember back in about 1972 a girl I knew at the time bought a brand new Vega.  It was bright yellow.  In six months time there was rust coming through the paint at the top of the fender, along side the hood.

Of course living in Michigan cars rust quickly, but not that quickly!  They are much better these days with the way they treat the metal but still, a vehicle will rust away before they ever stop running.  They're still putting tons of road salt down each winter.  That's why the roads are always full of pot holes too.

[AE_Collector]

To almost keep this on topic, we had Chevrolet Greenbriar I&R vans at BC Telephone. The Greenbriar van was builton the rear engine Corvair chassis.

[Dennis Markham]

Terry, great photo of those vans.  I split the topic and moved this portion to "off topic".  We did kind of divert attention away from the great restoration job Charles did on his phone.  That original topic is here, in Collector's Corner:

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=3233.0

[McHeath]

They never rust out here in the central valley of California.  Not even the Vegas rusted, I've seen more than a few of them in the wreaking yards, silently waiting.  I've not seen one driving for many years, though there are two Pintos I still see about town. 

[Dennis Markham]

I just recently saw a Vega.  Some young fella has it all jacked up, wide tires and the like.  The only thing that looks original is the body.  And it's primer gray.  It was on the side of the road for sale.  Did they use timing belts in those like the Corvair.  I think the Corvair had one of the early timing belts as opposed to a timing chain.  The engine was in the back and the belt was more like a fan belt.  They came off all the time.

Ralph Nader wrote a book about them called "Unsafe at any speed".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unsafe_at_Any_Speed

[Phonesrfun]

The one thing I remember about the Corvair was that I have never seen one that didn't leak oil like a sive (sp?)

I remember those Corvair-inspired vans too.  I think the Vegas and the Ford Pintos were from about the same vintage, when Detroit was not turning out its best products.  US car quality has definitely improved from that of the '70's.

[HarrySmith]

The Vega and the Corvair were both good cars. The Corvair was quite an advancement in technology for it's time, early 60's. There was no timing belt but it did have a fan belt that wrapped up over the engine to run the cooling fan, it had quite a severe angle in it as and did require frequent replacement as a result. There was no Buick model of the Corvair. There is a Corvair powered by a Buick V-8 but it was not factory. Nader's book was not only about the Corvair but it did suffer as a result. He is still writing and talking about unsafe cars! The Vega had an almost indestructible 4 cylinder engine that would run forever, it did have a timing belt which was not a problem if it was changed as recommended. It was rear wheel drive and died off as a result of America switching to small front drive vehicles. I owned a Vega and it was a great little car for it's time. i have not owned a Corvair but I did work on a few many years ago and my dream car is a Covair Rampside pickup, there are a few in the picture posted above.

[Dennis Markham]

Harry, thanks for setting me straight on those Corvair/Vega facts.  I just remembered a buddy of mine in high school that drove a Corvair.  He was always talking about and tinkering with a belt that was under the hood....or trunk lid.  I seem to remember the belt being horizontal instead of vertical like we normally think of belts on an engine.

[McHeath]

From what I've read the Vega was an attempt to produce a world class leading car using creative and new for the time technologies.  The problem was that their reach exceeded their grasp, and many of the ideas simply were not ready for prime time.  (the sleeveless cylinders for one, the Elpo anti rust dip process for another)  That coupled with cost cutting choices forced on the engineers by the head office resulted in a very poor car.  These teething problems in the end were borne by the buyer, who essentially ended up acting as testers for GM.  The last of the Vegas were vastly improved cars and had developed to become what the car should have been at day one, but by then it was too late.

I do like the look of the Vega, especially the early ones that resemble the early 70's Camero front. 

[HarrySmith]

Yes, it was a strange configuration for a fan belt. It was OK as long as the belt was properly adjusted and replaced when recommended. I found a picture that shows the belt layout although the engine shown is not stock.
Yes, as usual, the front office at GM prevented the Vega from being all it could have been!

[AE_Collector]

I do like the look of the Vega, especially the early ones that resemble the early 70's Camero front.  

The 1971 through 73 Vega in particular was a baby camaro. I too loved the lines of the hood and fenders. I had a 74 Vega Woody Wagon that was a nice looking car but looked the part of a "sleeper". I fixed that with a small block 350 V8 4 barrel Q-jet carb, headers, mild cam, thrush sidepipes under the doors on the rocker panels and mags. Was that car ever a lot of fun! I have a picture somewhere...

I still see a Vega or two around the greater Vancouver area but few and far between now. Wish I had mine again.

The Vega was originally supposed to get the Wankel Rotary (new this thread would come back on topic eventually) engine that GM was working on so the car consequently had a very high tunnel for driveshaft but the engine was eventually dropped without going into production.

The cars were designed to stand on their nose in the rail cars so more would fit onto each rail car, there by reducing shipping costs. To stand them on their nose they had to have batteries with the caps right to the back edge so fluid wouldn't leak out and there were special baffles in the oil pan to prevent oil running throughout the engine during shipment.

The Vega launched in fall 1970 (1971 model) as did the Pinto. A major tune up to the looks for 74/75 and again in 76 when they replaced the aluminum engine with a conventional cast iron engine. I replaced my engine with a cast iron one too but did it in 1975 and it had 8 cylinders instead of 4.

I think it was 1976 when CHevy came out with the Monza (name previously a special edition name for a corvair) which was the Vega frame but otherwise a new car and it had a 262 Cubic inch V8.

Terry

[McHeath]

Good history there Terry.  I'd also heard about the standing on end to ship the car, interesting eh how far they were willing to go to cut costs.  GM cut the fender liners on the Vega as I recall to save money, which coupled with the poor anti-rust coating and steel choice led to the infamous rusting.  The fender liners got added back in later, but again it was too late and the cars reputation was ruined. 

It always interests me how car makers will spend a zillion bucks to develop and market a new car line, no matter what car maker it may be, and then cut the line off at the knees.  Ford's bungling of the Taurus is a good example, once the biggest seller then eventually abandoned to fleet sales and finally killed, now attempting to be revived.  I'd be a crappy car marketer I'm sure.