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Western Electric 653BC wiring problems

Started by Jf510, December 22, 2015, 11:40:13 AM

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Jf510

Thanks. I will re-trace all my wires again.

Jf510

I retraced my switch wires carefully and they are all in the correct location. I connected the condenser wires according to the above directions and my dial tone shorts out. The wire colors almost look the same so I followed the location on the picture. When I remove the wires on the condenser completely then the dial tone is fine and it dials out so it must be in the condenser. I moved a few wires around but it did nothing. I really don't know how to use a multimeter to check outside of using a meter to check ohms and current. I am back to stumped.

unbeldi

#17
Quote from: Jf510 on December 23, 2015, 11:08:12 AM
I retraced my switch wires carefully and they are all in the correct location. I connected the condenser wires according to the above directions and my dial tone shorts out. The wire colors almost look the same so I followed the location on the picture. When I remove the wires on the condenser completely then the dial tone is fine and it dials out so it must be in the condenser.
See comments below.
Quote
I moved a few wires around but it did nothing.
Well, the latter sounds highly indeterminate, such action should always be avoided, unless guided by the logistics of a circuit diagram.

Quote
I really don't know how to use a multimeter to check outside of using a meter to check ohms and current. I am back to stumped.

When you say "dial tone shorts out", what does that mean?  You can hear dial tone when taking the set off-hook for a half second or so, and then it stops?    Or you never hear anything?

If you know how to check resistance (ohms), you can put that to good use by measuring the resistance between the red and the black condenser leads, as well as between the second pair.

You should get a reading of near infinite value.   If it is zero or very low, the condenser is bad.  When using an analog meter, one should first observe a needle deflection toward zero because current flows when the capacitor charges, but after a very short time it should stabilize.  This is an advantage (the only) of using old-style analog meters, rather than the digital kind. It indicates that the capacitor is actually working.  With a digital meter one doesn't see that usually, and it is harder to detect when the capacitor is actually open (broken terminal).

unbeldi

#18
Addendum:
However, if the 2 µF capacitor which is the one in the audio circuit with the red and black leads is either open or shorted, it should not effect your audio much, the phone still functions perceptively as usual.

The purpose of that capacitor is to prevent direct current (DC) from entering the receiver.   This was mandatory for the newer H-type receiver capsules starting in 1937, as installed in the F1 handset on 302 telephones, but also for some earlier receivers.

The relatively high value of 2 µF was chosen as a compromise to present as little attenuation as possible to audio frequencies, yet keep the size of the unit reasonable.  The ideal capacitor in this position would have infinite capacity, meaning no resistance to audio frequencies.  But that would also mean infinite size. Of course today, we have caps of thousands of microfarads smaller than a match book, due to advances in material science.

On the other hand if the condenser is completely interrupted, with an internally broken terminal, its resistance is infinite and no current flows.  In this case, the anti-sidetone balance of this circuit is destroyed, and the receiver is only powered by the tertiary winding of the induction coil which is actually sufficient for usable reception under many electrical conditions, especially today on modern short lines.

If however the 1 µF condenser is shorted, then you have a 1000 Ω ringer directly across the line, which would likely result in what is called ring trip.  The central office detects DC current flowing which is beyond the supervision levels, and it may assume that a digit has already been dialed, thus removing dial tone.


So what does this all tell you?  Well, assuming your set is wired correctly, you have a shorted ringing condenser perhaps.  Please test by removing ONLY this one condenser out of the ringing bridge, simply by removing one of the spades from its screw, RR for example.  The set won't ring now, but dialing, talking, receiving should all work.   If you experience something different, then the set is still miswired.

Jf510

#19
The dial tone cuts off meaning it goes busy with the phone company recording. Then when I call my home number with my cell I have a busy signal. I just got home but I quickly connected all the condenser wires back but left the ringer wires off this time and the dial tone was fine and it dialed fine. I had connected what was mentioned above and that was to connect the red to RR and the BLK to L1. I will now start checking what you said in your response.
I just connected condenser wires as well as the ringer leads but took off the condenser lead to RR as suggested. The dial tone was fine and it dialed fine. When I stare at the condenser it looks a little different than the picture meaning that looking at the contacts the red is on the top left and below is black and on the right side the top looks tan and below looks yellow although both those colors look almost the same with the discoloration. The condenser does say 194A and then 2MF but it's in ink and not embossed like the one in the picture. I am not sure if that means anything. I will try and test the condenser with my meter.

G-Man

Here is the wiring diagram for the ringing circuit.

G-Man

#21
The terminal layout for the 194A condenser.

Jf510

#22
This was strange. I finally noticed the MF2 on the condenser on top and MF1 on bottom (sorry it took long) so I followed the schematic accordingly to where the top wires went to the MF2 connections and the bottom to the MF1 connections and also made sure the ringer was connect according to the schematic and the line shorted or went to intercept. Then I flipped the dark colors and it worked but the ringer rang when dialing, then I flipped the ringer leads and now the phone seems to work fine including the ringer. This must be the most confusing phone I have worked on. Thanks for all your help.

Phonesrfun

Quote from: Jf510 on December 23, 2015, 06:57:48 PM
This must be the most confusing phone I have worked on. Thanks

You have to remember that "back in the day", phones were not plug and play.  Installers did nothing all day but install and configure phones, and they had training to do so.  Now days, configuring all things electronic is a matter of going to a settings tab and selecting various options, and things are good!.  Back then, configuration changes were made with different wiring options, and different models of subsets matched with different deskset models.
-Bill G