Help needed with Rotatone install - WE-302 phone

[MCCAFFRP]

Hello all,
I decided to start a new topic because I have abandoned Dialgizmo on my Western Electric 302C phone with 4H dial connected to Ooma telo. I purchased the Rotatone module in hopes that I will be able to obtain those coveted "dial-hold" features - the ones that include dialing a # or * or redialing. Anyway, I have obtained the wiring diagram available from this site and I also have the Rotatone instructions that came with the unit. In his instructions, he mentions the use of polarity protection and he included what looks like a bridge and it even has At&T's name on the back. It has 4 diodes and two wires and two terminals. Can someone help me with the polarity of this and how to connect it? The diagram here doesn't show wire colors and the bridge unit itself doesn't show polarity. Also, the diagram here doesnt have the 24V zener diode in it. Any comments on this would be appreciated. The Ooma Telo has 47.5 V on hook. The Rotatone manual says it will take up to 35V, but the voltage is probably measured somewhere else. So much info included on the instructions, but missing some basic info. Thanks to everyone and Happy Thanksgiving! Ron

[G-Man]

The line-side connects to the screw-terminals; their polarity is unimportant since that is the point of a polarity-guard. If I recall correctly, the green wire is the negative positive side and the white, positive negative. If not and the unit doesn't work, then simply reverse those two wires.

Don Woodbury's site has plenty of documentation regarding installation:

   
• http://www.oldphoneworks.com/rotatone-pulse-to-tone-converter.html

Dealing with polarity issues
When Rotatone was being developed, a decision was made not to incorporate a polarity correction circuit within Rotatone module. This decision was made for a number of reasons, the chief of which is that the polarity protection was best applied to the entire phone, and not just to the Rotatone module. In addition, by keeping the polarity guard as a separate module, the installer will have maximum installation flexibility.In its simplest installation, Rotatone requires proper telephone line polarity in order to operate. If a Rotatone equipped telephone is being installed where the polarity is known to be correct, then a polarity guard (bridge rectifier) will not be required. If however Rotatone is being installed in a telephone that is being sold or placed in an unknown location, the installer is strongly advised to incorporate polarity protection in the installation.

It is very easy to incorporate polarity protection during the installation. Simply install a small bridge rectifier (say 1A 600v like Farnell 407-7300), or a standard telephone polarity guard on the incomingtelephone line AFTER the hookswitch. The polarized lines from the polarity guard should be connected to the telephone circuit so that the positive lead connects to the Orange-Red lead from Rotatone, and the negative lead connects to the blue lead from the Rotatone. With the 5.1v Zener diode installed in the circuit, the Orange/Red and Blue leads of Rotatone will have at least 5 volts available.

[Southernphoneman]

Here is a schematic from OPW'S site of which might help you.

[G-Man]

You may want to view Don's entire Rotatone site that I provided in my first link, since it includes the 302 diagram in addition to other documents regarding polarity, etc.

   
• http://www.oldphoneworks.com/rotatone-pulse-to-tone-converter.html

[MCCAFFRP]

Hello everyone, thanks for the suggestions. I had reviewed OPW website prior to posting this, as well as read his instructions and as you can see, I have the wiring diagram from OPW - I had attached it here for reference - that diagram is somewhat helpful and so is the website, but neither guide shows the connections for what I am guessing is an At&T polarity protection device that the reseller included. His notes simply say "install after the hook switch". I can read the schematic. However, I was asking for specific details as in on a WE-302 phone as to where all (4) connections go - thanks poplar1 - that answers my question for half of the connections. The entire OPW site is very interesting, but unless you actually have installed one of these and are a "phone man", when someone says "after the hook switch", explains the theory well and takes the time to make a diagram that includes color coded wires for everything but that part, you can understand my question. Although I am an electronics and I.T. tech by trade and have been working on various items for the past 40 plus years, until recently I have not really had to work on old phones. I like it, and I appreciate everyone's help very much!

[poplar1]

Green wire from this polarity guard is + ("tip") and white wire is - ("ring").

[MCCAFFRP]

I am confused. With reference to the "Rotatone WE-302.pdf" diagram, there are (4) connections to the polarity guard. Will someone please explain which wires from my polarity guard go where ? The diagram does not jive with the instructions that came with the unit. After reading the install instructions and reviewing the diagram on his instructions and the "Rotatone WE-302.pdf" I am also now confused about the Rotatone connections too. It looks like I am supposed to disconnect the existing dial wires, or some of them and connect the Rotatone wires, but the instructions don't say that. This is why I am asking for a walkthrough - there are missing steps. Also the diagram power connections for the Rotatone dont agree with his written instructions. In the written instructions he says the power to the RT is just across the Tip and Ring, but the PDF diagram doesnt show it that way. This is a fairly simple device, but I am feeling dumb. Will someone explain in simple terms how to achieve the installation of both the RT and the polarity guard? But please reference the pdf guide. If I have to disconnect and move original wires for any reason, I would appreciate that being spelled out. Thanks again, everyone!

[MCCAFFRP]

I didnt meant to scare people away with my request for literal translation!
Happy Thanksgiving!

[MCCAFFRP]

So here are my current questions about the Rotatone installation in a more organized manner. These would take someone who has previously installed a Rotatone on a WE 302 phone a few minutes at most. Thank you very much for helping me!

These all refer to the "Rotatone – WE 302.pdf" mentioned earlier in this subject as well as the Rotatone Installation guide. I have basic questions on (3) areas – 1. Initial connections of the Rotatone 2. Addition of Zener diodes as recommended in the instructions 3. Connection of the supplied polarity guard. Here they are:

1.       A. When connecting the Rotatone, I can see the blue goes to L1 and the orange-red goes to GND. There is nothing connected to GND on my phone. Please explain. The dial control connections go to the dial terminals as marked on the schematic, but the install manual discusses the existing dial shunt not being desirable, but does not say to disconnect it. Should I disconnect and isolate it? B. Where and how would you mount the Rotatone unit?
2.       A. Regarding the addition of the 5.1 zener diode – the diagram shows BK to GND but there is nothing on GND except the Rotatone red-orange now. The instructions mention connecting it "between the wires that were previously connected to the pulsing contacts on the dial" What does he mean?.  Are there any other wires that need to be disconnected from the dial when connecting Rotatone? B. Regarding the 24V. Zener diode mentioned in the install instructions – he recommends that for protection against surges and high voltage. Where would that go?
3.         Regarding the polarity device -  A. Does the green wire go  to GND? B. Does the white wire go to L1? C. Which screw terminal goes to the brown-yellow on the switch hook?  D. For the remaining screw terminal connection – the diagram shows it going to the intersection of line input "Ring" (red) and the red wire going to the ringer. In my case those are currently connected to L1. Do  I disconnect them both from L1 and move them both to the remaining screw terminal on the polarity guard?  E. Where and how would you mount the polarity guard?

Thanks again for the help!

[MCCAFFRP]

Hello, why is it so quiet here?! Have I bored people with my questions? I attempted to make them as clear and concise as possible. Some answers might be obvious to people who have installed the Rotatone on my phone before. Thanks for bearing with me while I learn. I am attempting to obtain answers to these questions and have a full understanding of installation of Rotatone before I take my phone apart again.

[Southernphoneman]

Hello, why is it so quiet here?! Have I bored people with my questions? I attempted to make them as clear and concise as possible. Some answers might be obvious to people who have installed the Rotatone on my phone before. Thanks for bearing with me while I learn. I am attempting to obtain answers to these questions and have a full understanding of installation of Rotatone before I take my phone apart again.

PM sent, MCCAFFRP

[Phonesrfun]

Hello, why is it so quiet here?! Have I bored people with my questions? I attempted to make them as clear and concise as possible. Some answers might be obvious to people who have installed the Rotatone on my phone before. Thanks for bearing with me while I learn. I am attempting to obtain answers to these questions and have a full understanding of installation of Rotatone before I take my phone apart again.

No, I think the problem is that these Rotatones and Dial gizmos are things that relatively few people have had any kind of success with, and from what I hear are not very reliable.  However, I will attempt to answer your questions.  Bear in mind that I don't have one of these and so I have never used one.  I am going entirely based on the diagram and the modifications to the connections from the standard 302 wiring.

First of all, the GND connection in your phone which is currently not being used is used by the Rotatone as a convenient place to connect several wires in common,  So, following the diagram, the orange-red wire from the Rotatone goes to GND.  So does the black wire from the phone's condenser.  Also, the green wire (+) from the polarity guard will go to GND.  It apears that a 5.1 volt Zener Diode is connected with its positive side connected to GND, and its negative side connected to the black handset wire.  It looks like you will need to connect the Zener in series with the handset cord somehow.  That black handset wire is the one that was previously connected to the BK connection on the dial which is one side of the pulsing contacts.  When you disconnect the black handset wire from BK on the dial, you replace it with pink or white from the Rotatone.  The brown-yellow hookswitch wire is disconnected from the Y terminal on the dial and instead connected to one of the screw terminals on the poloarity guard. (doesn't matter which of the two terminals).  The slate-red wire that goes between L1 on the induction coil and R on the dial is discarded.  Replace it by connecting the blue Rotatone wire to L1 on the coil and the brown Rotatone wire to R on the dial.  Apparently, the white handset wire is moved from W on the dial and connected to BB on the dial along with the brown-blue hookswitch wire. (Apparently leaving nothing connected to the W terminal on the dial).  The green line cord wire is connected to L2 on the coil like it normally is, along with the yellow hookswitch wire and the yellow condenser wire.  No changes to L2, in other words.

The red line cord wire is connected to that other screw terminal on the polarity guard along with the red ringer wire.  The white polarity guard wire (-) will now connect to L1 on the coil.  Note that before, the red line cord and the red ringer wire used to be connected to L1 on the coil, but now go to that screw terminal on the polarity guard.  Now L1 on the coil will have the white polarity guard and the blue Rotatone wire.

Hopefully this will work.  Like I mentioned before, the results people have reported have been mixed.  The Rotatone gets its power from the phone line.  If your "line" comes from some sort of digital source, such as an IP-based phone router, the power supplied from these is sometimes not as much as an old-fashioned phone line.  The capacitors in the Rotatone may need some time to fully charge before it will function properly.

As to a 24-volt Zener, I have no idea.  Perhaps it is used to keep transient ringing current from getting into the Rotatone circuitry if the phone is answered during a ringing cycle. 

Anyway, I probably sound negative about this, and it is not my intention to scare you away, but since nobody had replied, I thought I would so you didn't think we were ignoring your plea for help.  Keep us informed on your success.

[MCCAFFRP]

Thank you very much, Bill, for the interpretation. Your info has confirmed some of what I thought would be the case and you also provided some additional information that I am sure will help me. Again, thanks for taking the time to help. I will indeed post the results here when I have installed the unit and tested it. That might be a while due to personal circumstances, but I won't forget. Merry Christmas!
Ron.

[kormsbee]

Is there a video showing how this is wired?  I have for the life of me been trying to figure out what is going on, but just can't get it to work. 

[mariepr]

I realize that this thread is old but I'm trying to trouble shoot a Rototone installation in a 302.  I followed the 302 wiring diagram off the Old Phoneworks site and finally - success! I was already planning to make an illustrated how-to guide.  Until the next morning when it didn't work.  The only thing changed was to have pulled the plug on my test POTS line overnight.

Is there something in the 302 that might be "bad"?  I've eliminated these possible problems:

1) The 302 works fine if wired as a "normal" 302.

2) I tested the same Rototone unit and polarity guard with the same 5H dial and F1 handset but connected with an AE mini-network.  (I've done these several times so I know that setup works.)  Everything worked fine so possible trouble with the added gizmos was eliminated.

3) When Rototone is installed, I get a dial tone but the dial won't break the dial tone.  Transmitter volume is very weak so perhaps the capacitor was bad?  (Transmitter connection uses capacitor black wire.)  Tried another capacitor - no improvement.  Perhaps something is wrong with the coil?

4) Having done previous installations with Rototone and AE mininetworks I know that Zener polarity is important and it must be connected to the transmitter in series.  For the 302, I mounted the Zener across a barrier strip:  Rototone red/orange, condenser black, polarity guard green on one terminal.  Handset cord black connected at the second terminal at the banded side of the Zener.   

5) I did check for often overlooked blunders when using non-kosher wiring - like shorted connections and loose spades. 

Any ideas?  SInce I got it the rototone 302 working once it suggests that some component might be working intermittently.