I'm looking for wiring BSP on a 24B8 busy lamp adjunct.
I've looked at Paul's site for it but I couldn't find it.
I just got this on eBay and would like to put a new end on the cable, but I don't have the BSP on it
I have even looked online with Google, nothing comes up.
If anyone has a copy I can view it's be grateful.
Ok, I've looked at TCI, nothing found, I've looked at Paul Vs site, nothing found.
But there must be information on BSPs for this some where!
open it up and see if it has regular switchboard lamps, or the newer LEDs. this was out from the 1970's and 1980's. went to the "Merlin" series phones if I recall, but not sure... basically, this was used to indicate a busy message waiting station. it would have had some designation strips behind the plastic indicating the persons extension. the newer sets were electronic, as they were tied to a 1A2 phone system with all the fancy electronics of the day... I have 2 #6B1's which are the same idea, except they have switches to turn on and off the lamps...
See if this one for the 24A is close enough to help.
https://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/search?q=24a+Line+Status+Indicator (https://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/search?q=24a+Line+Status+Indicator)
Paul, it sounds like the right thing, but it's just a page.
There's not enough information to answer questions.
Quote from: Key2871 on March 18, 2021, 05:49:29 PM
Paul, it sounds like the right thing, but it's just a page.
There's not enough information to answer questions.
Scroll down. The pdf is ten pages long and includes connections.
I have a paper copy of issue 3, which covers the 24A- and 24B-types. If the version in the TCI Library won't help, I'll add it to my "scan soon" list.
Ok, I hit down load file and whala.
Thanks Paul.
I didn't know they made much larger ones, some are huge!
Even though the practices show for a A type, I imagine the B is just a newer version.
And these are for dimension systems not 1A2 as I had hoped. But not to worry I'll just work my magic and get it to work some how.
I had made a BLF indicator of my own years ago using 24 volt lamps and a key strip from a 830 type set.
And it worked very nice. I just had to add a diode in the tel set and wired it to the field.
I had seen the dial on the bottom of the unit and wondered if it was volume for a ringer sound.
So great, now I know what's it's for and how it's connected their way.
So when I get it I start re- engineering it to fit my purpose.
Thanks much Paul.
John, it's all LEDs, I had one years ago, but it wasn't complete and I didn't understand the the electronics.
But now that Paul pointed me in the right direction, I found out this is a line busy Indicator for a Demension system.
It bridges each line tip and ring to illuminate each line in use, or flutters with a ringing line.
I had thought as I was told thirty years ago it was a busy lamp or station field for a 1A2 system.
But that's totally wrong.
What I plan on doing since I don't have a dimension system is to perhaps rework it to be a BLF for stations.
But what I may do is just remove the board and replace it with one I make and just use for LEDs and have for busy station field. And see if the board could be useful for other things, such as the same, but just with out the housing.
I have some multi conductor station cords to reuse, it's just an idea.
As for Merlin, ha no way, Merlin used RJ45 wires and connectors, I know because I had a few a 206, then a 408. And this would not even come close to Merlin.
Because basic sets were all boxy and black. Plus the system and phones could be configured to indicate stations busy. Much eaiser that 1A2 could.
But since dimention systems are old and I don't have one, I would just re work this to be my own use type of thing.
I had always wondered why the connector was the same as a station set. Now I know, because it connects to a cable used to bring lines into it and show lines in use.
That's why I'm leaning perhaps to add my own board and put less on it to illuminate the stations in use.
And keep the board as is to connect to incoming lines.
Though I have none, it could be handy for those who do, and for parts as well.
I don't mind changing it to suit my use. But I don't want to throw out good circuits that someone else may be able to use. As this has a ringer built it as well, that will ring an incoming call.
I will add pictures when I get it. It will be here Monday.
So I can open it up and post the pictures.
the dimension sets were the other series out during the late 80's and 90's... they were the same as the merlins weren't they? all 1A2 systems....
Dimension and Merlin are not 1A2.
Dimension is a PBX (EPABX). Merlin is a key system, though the sets were called "voice terminals" by W.E.
Merlin was the kind of replacement to a 1A2, that was my understanding from an ATT guy I talked with years ago. Because it could use far less wires than the 1A series and was electronic so could be customised by the user with the feature pack installed.
Dimension used the 25 pair as did the 1A series. But was more electronic and that's about the extent of my knowledge.
I had a dimension console years ago I got from eBay. Actually 2 sold one to Dennis Owens, if anyone remembers him.
Dimension used single line sets (2500) and MET sets if you had the EKTS equipment. MET sets were also used with the Horizon hybrid key system. MET sets have 4-pair mounting cords, not 25-pair.
oh, thats right. EPBX...... electronic PBX... yeah... those "Computerized" telephones....
Yes I've come across met sets before. But since I didn't know much about them, I just left them be.
I have seen sets like comkey and horizon that 25 pair cables. Or was I just smoking something I shouldnt have.
Around my area, 1A2 Comkey 416 were fairly common then came Merlin. Then other digital stuff of various makes.
Ok, some pictures of the unit, outside in.
The resistors that are probably for power the board looks cooked a tad, by the resistors look fine.
No end on the cable, and the panels on front and back are held by magnets. The front hold the line designation strips.
Kinda cool unit.
I was thinking the KSSM Volume 3 could help, But I don't have a copy and don't know if it covered these old parts... once you get into the 1A2 systems, you loose me... I flunked Electronics as a kid, so when it comes to these parts, I'm no help... anyway, you might look through the KSSM and the Specialty services manuals... I'm pretty sure these were made AFTER the bell breakup.... so ATT had the practices... check the TCI Library.... thats the only place I can think there would be help...
Hi Ken
You have a fairly simple circuit there.
It would not be too difficult to get some life out of it.
First, though, the two resistors in pic 14a, need to be replaced.
and prob that transistor too. they have burned.
Next, find the numbers on the chip tops, and use a ttl page to discover how they work.
Your circuit is a simple ttl circuit, so it will be a set of pull up/down resistors hanging on the input of a ttl gate, prob with a qualifier.
The gate opens/closes with either a voltage in, or a ground applied to the inputs.
And prob a blinker timer. pretty simple...for the most part.
once you find which package you have, the rest is following the inputs back to the cut cable.
You will find one wire going from the cable to a resistor, to the gate input.
This will repeat the same way for each input.
once you get power to the board, you can prob use a 5-12 volt power supply to drive each input to simulate the phone going on/off hook.
Thanks RB I knew it looked pretty simple, but the reason I got it was to use as a 1A2 station busy field.
So all I really need is the LED display with the resistors and then I'll back track to what pin I need to apply I'm thinking a 5 volt source to illuminate the LED. Then I'll have to figure out how to best get the correct voltage from the 24 the KSU will send to operate the correct LED for that station.
John, KSSM in the 1A2 series vol 3 doesn't cover dimension sets at all. It does cover the comkey stuff.
In fact dimension has their own manuals for everything to connect the stations etc.
I believe there is a separate manual for programming.
In the conversation I had with the guy from ATT he worked for ATT and with a few other guys was working on a smaller system to replace the 1A2 stuff and use smaller cables and be user installable as well.
So these guys came up with the Merlin system, and he told me about the dimension system that was in use in some larger business where he was from.
And ATT wanted to phase out that as well for a smaller system again to get away from using the 25 pair cable because it was so expensive to make.
Plus they wanted it to be easily programmed from each station that was used.
Once they came up with the smaller 206, 408 and the I think the 810? Then they set out to design the larger Merlin plus system, and that also used the 4 pair cable.
And then it started as cat 5 cable and grew from that.
Now I worked for him a few years and learned he was quite a BS artist. But he and his wife were AT&T executive, she was a operator supervisor and she looked it. We called her stone face because she was all business all the time. Hardly smiled and was a hard Ass.
So I have no idea if what he told me was true or just made up with what he heard. But he too was sort of a collector.
Quote from: Key2871 on March 21, 2021, 10:08:25 AM
KSSM in the 1A2 series vol 3 doesn't cover dimension sets at all. It does cover the comkey stuff.
In fact dimension has their own manuals for everything to connect the stations etc.
Dimension was covered in BSP division 554-. A partial listing is in this index document:
https://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/search?q=325-093+I6+Dec78
(https://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/search?q=325-093+I6+Dec78)
Most of the info currently in the TCI Library is more general:
https://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/search?q=dimension
(https://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/search?q=dimension)There's a copy of 554-010-110 here:
http://etler.com/docs/bsp-archive/554/554-010-110_I5.pdf (http://etler.com/docs/bsp-archive/554/554-010-110_I5.pdf)
Thanks Paul. Your a wealth of information.
But John was saying he thought vol 3 of the BSP manuals for 1A2 systems covered dimension systems.
It only talks about Comkey systems and sets.
No dimension stuff in vol 3 1A2 manuals at all.
It might mention but I have looked through that manual over a month ago and there is no dimension stuff.
Darn it! This darned computer just lost my reply.... UHG! anyway, I downloaded the BSP for later reading... interesting stuff!
I knew a guy who worked for ma Bell, he had all sorts of manuals, you wouldn't believe what he had.
But he offered me a few dimension manuals, I declined as I wasn't into those, I was into the 1A2, he had the set of three and I got those for a steal.
I went to his house, and in his barn was a room off to the side, he had file cabinets full of nomenclature of all bell stuff, he had a 1E set manual hanging on the wall, along with a plethora of other sets. The 1E was practically NOS it was used in the co for checking the lines the co used those on.
I'm the barn were boxes and boxes of Comkey sets, and all sorts of stuff removed from service ocmver the years. But I guess he was too attracted to that stuff, because other things I got for diet cheap, that stuff was out of my price range. But I really enjoyed his stories and history he had filling each corner.
He even had a bit from a bit brace drill, with a electrical entrance cable it was fused to, he was drilling for a wire run in a house and hit the entrance cable, caught the house on fire... Oh boy that must have been a story for his supervisor. But he learned to check both sides of the sill before he drilled another hole.
RIP Dick. Glad to know you.
well, lets see if this reply works... anyway, I was trying to say that it seems we had VOIP even back in the 70's. Except it wasn't called that then... and computers....and Electronic telephones... todays VOIP phones are pretty much like what the dimension system was ages ago... a data set... anyway, its funny to look back on history and see stuff that we had versus what we have now. how things have changed.... I was reading in the manual, that because of the technology limitations, you could only have so many sets on the system due to the memory limitations at the time, not to mention the limited data that could be sent.... how things have changed.... I remeber back in 1980 when I was taking a business machines class, they actually had a computer in the classroom.... what would life had been like had we had computers available to the masses back in to 1970's.... these systems were fancy! but, reserved for the large businesses... and what replaced these systems? or are they still in use today? interesting stuff, these "Electronic Telephones" or, EKT's as they were called. this is an area I don't comprehend... at least unless someone explains it to me.... were these system driven by a computer? what OS was used? or was it all built into the circuit boards... I know IC's existed back then, but, how were they used in this setting?