Western Electric 653BC wiring problems

[Jf510]

I am having problems with a Western Electric 653BC telephone. I wired a 653A before and it was easy but this one is throwing me. I removed that string that holds the wires together temporally so I can trace the wires better since the colors looks almost the same. I will put back later but I do get a dial tone and the phone dials out fine but the ringer won't ring. I have two different wiring diagrams for the 653BC but they are confusing to me. I am terrible in reading schematics.  I am not sure where to put the ringer wires as well as the 4 leads of the capacitor or condenser. I also have a tan/red dot wire that goes from the switch to RR on the terminal board and nothing is tied to it. I am not sure if that's correct. I was wondering if someone could help explain in simpler terms on where to put those wires. Thanks so much.

[NorthernElectric]

Page 2 of this document in the TCI library has a wiring diagram for the 653BA.

[G-Man]

Connect one of the ringer wires to "L1" and the other to "K." It really doesn't matter which color of ringer leads are used. The slate lead from the capacitor/condenser should also be connected to "K" and its yellow lead to "L2Y."

Since Western Electric did not use "tan" colored wires for this vintage of set, I assume you are referring to a slate wire with red stripes (Slate-Red) which is shown connected to "R" on the dial. However, the only wires connected to the switch are the following colors:

   
• Yellow
• Brown-Yellow
• Red 
• Brown-Double Blue

Also, I may have missed it, but I do not see terminal "RR" in the wiring diagram.
Most problems can be solved by following the wiring diagram and not by removing lacing-twine (not string) and wires, which often will only compound them. 

[Jf510]

Hi..thanks..I will check out your wiring diagram. I was using another one that showed the RR because I had about 6 leads off the switch and the one I tried and follow had the same amount. I will enclose what I had.

[G-Man]

Hi..thanks..I will check out your wiring diagram. I was using another one that showed the RR because I had about 6 leads off the switch and the one I tried and follow had the same amount. I will enclose what I had.

You inquired about problems you were having with a 653BA, so is the set you are working on a 653BA or a 653BC set???

The wiring diagram you posted is for the 653BC, which I now suspect it is since it has an "RR" terminal, so I suppose now that it would be moot to post a further enhanced wiring diagram for the set you originally requested help with.

[Jf510]

Oh darn..sorry about that mistake. I am working on a 653BC not BA. I will change that now in my main heading and first request and responses. I still would love help on the ringer and condenser wiring. Thanks

[unbeldi]

Well, it seems like you did state that it is a 653-BC in the very first post and the picture makes it obvious that this is the case.

The set has been well documented here:
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=12347.0

[PS: I see this is where you got your diagram]

A search will also yield more wiring help we provided for others.

[Jf510]

Hi..yes I did see that earlier forum and copied those wiring diagrams and tried to follow them. I also changed the ringer wires that was indicated in there but the phone still won't ring. The schematic for me looked a little confusing especially on where to put the 4 leads to the condenser. Again I am not the best in reading them.

[unbeldi]

I am having problems with a Western Electric 653BC telephone. I wired a 653A before and it was easy but this one is throwing me. I removed that string that holds the wires together temporally so I can trace the wires better since the colors looks almost the same. I will put back later but I do get a dial tone and the phone dials out fine but the ringer won't ring. I have two different wiring diagrams for the 653BC but they are confusing to me. I am terrible in reading schematics.  I am not sure where to put the ringer wires as well as the 4 leads of the capacitor or condenser. I also have a tan/red dot wire that goes from the switch to RR on the terminal board and nothing is tied to it. I am not sure if that's correct. I was wondering if someone could help explain in simpler terms on where to put those wires. Thanks so much.

The tan/red wire was originally brown with double red tracers.  It connects the switch to the RR terminal. Whoever modified your set previously, didn't use this, which could be ok if done correctly.

In my description, I stated what needs to be done for modern line ringing:

*Move black ringer wire to L1 (on ground originally),
*Move red ringer wire to from YY to RR.   The same can be accomplished by moving the capacitor wire that should have been on RR to YY.

It is much easier to use my circuit diagram, rather than the old wiring schematics.  The two that you have are actually not different at all, they are just drawn slight different, but in any event, it is hard to understand the functioning of the telephone from them. No one can grasp the logic of a 7-contact switch as drawn, without extensive tracing, so please don't feel apologetic or in the minority about circuit understanding.  My circuit diagram makes it easy, however, as each function of the telephone is physically (in layout) separated.   On the left hand side is the ringing bridge, from GND to L2 as wired originally in the Bell System.

[unbeldi]

In those original diagrams, the ringing bridge is actually only 'indicated', as the ringer itself is shown disconnected. So it can be somewhat confusing, if you don't know the wiring conventions of the Bell System telephone plant in the 1930s.

If you spent some time with my diagram, perhaps print it out and trace lines with color markers against your telephone, it will eventually all make sense and work out.

To understand the complexity of this set, with all its switches, it helps to read up on the type of service this telephone was intended for, namely  message rate service for the subscriber station on the TIP side of the two-subscriber party line.  Message rate service required the telephone system to recognize automatically which of the two subscribers on the line originated a call. This was accomplished through the ringing bridge, by switching the 1000 ohm resistance of the ringer to ground. This happened only on the tip-side of the line, and not at the ring-side station, which used a different instrument, or a 653A or BA.

[Jf510]

I still can't get a ring. On the silver condenser under that thin wood strip. I have one lead to GN, one to C but the other two are loose. I can't seem to find that in the schematic on what to do with those two unless they are not used.

[unbeldi]

I still can't get a ring. On the silver condenser under that thin wood strip. I have one lead to GN, one to C but the other two are loose. I can't seem to find that in the schematic on what to do with those two unless they are not used.

The condenser can contains two separate capacitors.
2 µF:  black to BK, red to C
1 µF:  yellow to L2, double-red to RR

Ringer:
red ringer wire also to RR
black ringer wire to L1

The GN terminal only connects to the receiver with a green wire.

It may well be hard to figure out the colors of those old wires.  There is only one solution, patience, and a multimeter.  (that's two).
I think I may have a picture of the condenser terminals.

[unbeldi]

I think the condenser canister in those sets is a 194A as shown here, please compare.

In my picture one wire is slate, which in your case might be double-red, but perhaps not.  Best not to rely on colors, but follow logic.

As you can see, in this picture the colors don't match terrible well either.

[Jf510]

The condenser is indeed a 194A. It looks like there is a red and black and the two others both look like yellow so I followed your sequence in the picture. The BLK to BK, Slate to RR, Red to C and yellow to L2. The ringer as follows BLK to L1 and red to RR. I am now getting the phone to short and go busy. Maybe I have a switch wire crossed but I thought I traced those carefully.

[G-Man]

Just to clarify for others that come across this thread in the future, even though you have changed from your original reference regarding a 653BA, this topic has nothing to do with that instrument; instead we are referencing a 653BC wallset.
That said, perhaps this will make it easier to interpret the wiring diagram.