Classic Rotary Phones Forum

Telephone Identification, Repair & Restoration => Telephone Troubleshooting and Repair => Topic started by: Sargeguy on December 10, 2013, 11:11:35 PM

Title: 334 Subscriber set causes busy signal
Post by: Sargeguy on December 10, 2013, 11:11:35 PM
I have my nicely re-painted and refinished finished 334 with freshly nickeled bells and my rusted beaten up 334 and of course the rusted boat anchor rings louder than any of my other phones and the clean pretty one causes a busy signal.  Here's how it is wired as far as I can tell:

COIL                BLOCK
1 ----------------L1
2-----------------R
3-----------------L2
4-----------------GN

There is a jumper between Y and L2

21D 2mf Condenser
Green----------------L2
White-----------------C

RINGER
Black-----L1
White-----GN
Title: Re: 334 Subscriber set causes busy signal
Post by: poplar1 on December 10, 2013, 11:21:19 PM
GN is for the receiver, not the ringer. Ringer should be on C.
Title: Re: 334 Subscriber set causes busy signal
Post by: Sargeguy on December 10, 2013, 11:37:28 PM
That explains it.  Rings loud and clear now.  Thanks!

What it doesn't explain is why the other 334 subset that I was using as a guide has the ringer hooked up to C and still works ???
Title: Re: 334 Subscriber set causes busy signal
Post by: poplar1 on December 11, 2013, 12:32:35 AM
I don't follow; ringer is now like the other one, aren't both ringers connected to L1 and C?

Ringer path: L1 (black ringer) thru ringer (red) to C; from C to capacitor; through capacitor to L2.
Title: Re: 334 Subscriber set causes busy signal
Post by: Sargeguy on December 11, 2013, 10:29:12 AM
Sorry, I meant the white ringer wire on the working 334 that I used as a model is hooked up to GN.  Judging from the layers of crud it has been that way for some time.  The condenser and coil wires are harnessed together and have not been rearranged as far as I can tell.  I have not hooked up a phone to it yet to see what happens.

The way you describe it was how the problem 334 had been set up, and did not work.  I think the real problem with the non-working 334 was the integrity of the wiring itself, I had a couple wires break off as I was moving them around.  I rigged them up so they conduct current, returned to the original configuration and it works.  The other 334 configuration was a red herring.
Title: Re: 334 Subscriber set causes busy signal
Post by: Phonesrfun on December 11, 2013, 09:56:30 PM
White?  WE ringer wires are usually red and black and the condenser (capacitor) wires for the ringer are usually slate and yellow.  Maybe the wires have become discolored with age, and you are seeing one of the condenser wires.  Sometimes the colors get so faded, they can be next to impossible to discern.
Title: Re: 334 Subscriber set causes busy signal
Post by: Sargeguy on December 11, 2013, 10:02:50 PM
If it used to be red it's white now, and it goes directly from the ringer to GN.  Also, it rings really loud.  I set it aside for now to concentrate on preparing phones for the sale I am in .this weekend
Title: Re: 334 Subscriber set causes busy signal
Post by: poplar1 on December 12, 2013, 09:08:43 AM
If it used to be red it's white now, and it goes directly from the ringer to GN.  Also, it rings really loud.  I set it aside for now to concentrate on preparing phones for the sale I am in .this weekend

Looking at the diagram on the cover of a 534A, which should be similar: if it is correctly wired and all components are good, then the only difference in connecting a ringer to L1 and GN rather than L1 and C is that you now have added the secondary of the induction coil in series with the ringer. This is only 9 ohms so it should ring either way. Not sure what will happen when you try to connect a phone to it.

However, I don't know why yours does not work with the ringer on C.

Ring of line> L1> red ringer wire> ringer coils> black ringer wire> C> red condenser wire> condenser > yellow condenser wire > YL2> tip of line

Or (modified):
Ring of line> L1> red ringer wire> ringer coils> black ringer wire>GN>green induction coil wire> 4 on ind. coil> secondary of ind. coil>3 on ind. coil> black ind . coil wire> C> red condenser wire> condenser > yellow condenser wire >Y L2> tip of line
Title: Re: 334 Subscriber set causes busy signal
Post by: unbeldi on December 12, 2013, 05:36:48 PM
What is the induction coil in your set?   No. 46 or earlier, No. 20, 29?

In any case, for bridged ringing on individual lines, the circuit of the 334A with straight-line ringer should be identical to the later models.
A picture always tells a thousand words:
Title: Re: 334 Subscriber set causes busy signal
Post by: Sargeguy on December 12, 2013, 11:40:36 PM
I located what I believe is the cover and it is stamped 334BSN.  Here is a picture of the wiring block:
Title: Re: 334 Subscriber set causes busy signal
Post by: Sargeguy on December 13, 2013, 12:04:22 AM
Quote
What is the induction coil in your set?   No. 46 or earlier, No. 20, 29?
It does no look like a #46.  There are no markings. 16 ohms between 1 & 2 and 27 between 3 & 4 would make it a No. 20 I believe.

Quote
However, I don't know why yours does not work with the ringer on C.

That 334A works fine now with the white/red wire attached to C:

Quote
... the real problem with the non-working 334 was the integrity of the wiring itself, I had a couple wires break off as I was moving them around.  I rigged them up so they conduct current, returned to the original configuration and it works.  The other 334 configuration (white/red wire attached to GN) was a red herring.