Classic Rotary Phones Forum

Telephone Talk => Auction Talk => Topic started by: JorgeAmely on May 31, 2009, 11:32:12 PM

Title: A Mahogany Brown beauty in the horizon ...
Post by: JorgeAmely on May 31, 2009, 11:32:12 PM
 290321068288   ;D
Title: Re: A Mahogany Brown beauty in the horizon ...
Post by: McHeath on May 31, 2009, 11:39:37 PM
Looks like a nice phone.  What is up with the black dial bezel?  Is that original?
Title: Re: A Mahogany Brown beauty in the horizon ...
Post by: bingster on June 01, 2009, 12:08:41 AM
Odd that he gives the dates for everything but the dial
Title: Re: A Mahogany Brown beauty in the horizon ...
Post by: Jester on June 01, 2009, 12:16:02 AM
That dial sure looks like a #9 to me.  How many other mahogany 500's have you seen for sale recently, though?
Title: Chances of finding a replacement dial are ...
Post by: JorgeAmely on June 01, 2009, 12:45:03 AM
zero. Weren't the 9Cs produced in the late 60s?

You may find a 7C/D from the right time period, with the incorrect color code, but finding a Mahogany brown numbers wheel will require firing up the old time machine.


Title: Re: A Mahogany Brown beauty in the horizon ...
Post by: benhutcherson on June 01, 2009, 01:33:58 AM
Right, I agree that the chances of finding one would be slim to none.

Although it wouldn't be totally correct, I'd probably be tempted to at least turn it into a two-tone set. Add a 7 series dial with a metal fingerwheel, and a G-1 handset, and it probably wouldn't look too bad. At least I think that would look better than it looks now.
Title: Re: A Mahogany Brown beauty in the horizon ...
Post by: McHeath on June 01, 2009, 02:01:46 AM
Who knows, you might just stumble across the right bezel at some flea market/junk store/ yard sale.

It's interesting how dark the original 500 colors are. 
Title: Re: A Mahogany Brown beauty in the horizon ...
Post by: Jester on June 01, 2009, 02:38:01 AM
After reading through this thread & looking at the auction, I remembered a lot of #7 dials I bought from qaz-trader a month or so ago.  I was mainly interested in the fingerwheel adapters, and thought some of fingerwheels might actually be open centered, but they weren't. :-\  At any rate, there was one with a brown bezel that caught my eye.  I looked at it carefully when it arrived, but the dial base is stamped 7D-3. ???  The date stamp is 8-55, though, & I have decided the bezel is a darker brown than my chocolate trimline.  If anyone on this forum winds up with this phone, send me your name & address & you can have the dial for the price of shipping.  As I mentioned above, I do not have the correct fingerwheel or numbercard hardware, but those should be more readily available than the dial.  See pics. below.
Title: Re: A Mahogany Brown beauty in the horizon ...
Post by: benhutcherson on June 01, 2009, 08:36:37 AM
Jester,

All I can say is "Wow!"

Not only is it a million-to-one shot that you'd have the correct bezel, but your generosity is amazing, too.

Things like that are what make this forum great.
Title: Re: A Mahogany Brown beauty in the horizon ...
Post by: Dennis Markham on June 01, 2009, 10:51:21 AM
Jester, that is amazing that you would have a dial bezel of the proper color and time-period to complete the mahogany phone.  Is the seller that you purchased it from the fellow that sells Northern stuff?  It may be Northern but I don't think there are any such markings.  I don't even know if Northern Electric produced Mahogany during that time.

As Ben stated a two-tone could be made from this phone, although looking at a booklet I have showing colors of the first two-tone phones, they only show Yellow, Red, Oxford Gray and Med. Blue two-tones with matching handsets.  Each of those had straight gray handset cords.  However the other colors had black G1 handsets.  Those were shown with gray or black handset cords.  But the booklet indicates there were 8 colors so perhaps they only showed 4 for illustration.

I sent the seller of the brown phone this question/comment.

It appears by looking at the photos that the dial bezel is a much later replacement, which of course would mean that this phone is not an original two-tone as put into service by the Bell System.  The dial looks like a #8 or #9.  The photo showing the network block would support that observation as the dial wires are newer, not cloth covered as they would have been on an original 7 series dial on an untouched phone from 1956.  Also an original untouched two-tone phone from that period would not have the hard center finger wheel.  The line cord also appears to be a replacement.  So my question is, can you confirm my observations?  Thank you.

Although his comment, "I have done nothing to this phone" is probably accurate I think the wording may be misleading because of the wording This FIFTY FOUR year old phone is untouched!

With all of that being said, it is worth the asking price and more in the current condition.  But in order to "...... finish off your 500 set collection..."  more modifications will have to be made as discussed here.

It is still a very nice find.  I just don't know why the seller isn't up front with the fact that the dial had been changed.  It just supports the fact that one must dot their "I's" and cross their "t's" before shelling out big bucks for what appears to be an original.  It's difficult to make a claim of being "untouched" when those phones were handled by so many hands over the past fifty-plus years.

I will report on the reply to my question when/if I get one.

Title: Re: A Mahogany Brown beauty in the horizon ...
Post by: Dennis Markham on June 01, 2009, 11:49:36 AM
I received a very friendly communication from the seller of the brown phone.  Here is his reply in part.

Hey Dennis....you have more knowledge on these than I do as I do not collect 500 sets. I just took a picture of the inside. I wouldn't dare take the dial off as its a working phone and I don't want to play with it. The finger wheel is not an open face, so you could be right about the dial, I do not know. The line cord is not brown, so it could be a replacement, again I do not know. I am a fellow member of the ATCA and TCI.   I wish I had better info for you on this. I am answering you with the best of my limited knowledge.....Doug

I removed one line that was more personal in nature as we have a mutual friend and he commented on that.

So this is a good opportunity to pick up a Mahogany brown set.  With Jester's dial bezel and a 7 series dial, one will be in business.  I happen to know a guy that has a couple spare #7 dials.  If one of you buys the phone and need one, let me know.



Title: Re: A Mahogany Brown beauty in the horizon ...
Post by: Jester on June 01, 2009, 12:53:18 PM
Dennis,
The seller I bought this dial from is the same one that sells the NE & other brand color change sets, but all seven of the dials I bought in this auction have "Western Electric" cast on the back of the aluminum dial housing, so I am assuming all related parts are WE as well.  The bezel was quite likely changed at some point-- I just don't know.  I can also tell you that I have bought a few items recently from jflowres, the seller of the subject of this thread, & have been very pleased with every transaction, although his descriptions can be fuzzy or misleading at times, as we have seen.  I don't consider this intentional-- you just can't know every detail of every model of every phone ever made by even one company, especially when that covers 100 years of history!  Even with a little misinformation, I still feel this seller has always treated me right.
Title: Re: A Mahogany Brown beauty in the horizon ...
Post by: JorgeAmely on June 01, 2009, 01:05:58 PM
Mmm, so someone in this group has a time travel machine.  ;D

Title: Re: A Mahogany Brown beauty in the horizon ...
Post by: Dennis Markham on June 01, 2009, 01:24:57 PM
Thank you for that reminder Jester.  One of my phone collector friends that lives near me has been friends with Mr. Rose for quite some time (jflowres) and has had nothing but good things to say about him.  I hope my comments didn't imply anything to the contrary. 

Sometimes we have to read between the lines on some of the eBay listings.  I'm certainly no expert and as you said, no one can know everything about all the different stuff out there.  I am confident on the W.E. 500's of this vintage but am no expert.  I have learned the hard way, purchasing many that weren't what I expected but gaining some knowledge of the variations in the process.

Your dial bezel sure sounds like a Western to me.  In fact I think the same company made the plastic bezels for both W.E. and A.E.....and perhaps others.  That was a very generous offer you made to furnish the part for the cost of shipping.

It is fun discussing what's out there, especially something that isn't so common, like the Mahogany 500.
Title: Re: A Mahogany Brown beauty in the horizon ...
Post by: Dennis Markham on June 01, 2009, 02:49:48 PM
Jester, you don't have another dial bezel in Oxford Gray do you??
Title: Re: A Mahogany Brown beauty in the horizon ...
Post by: Jester on June 01, 2009, 03:27:11 PM
I wish I did, Dennis!  As for my generosity on the brown one-- it's extra to my needs & I've got my money's worth out of the other dials in the lot.  Besides, there are several here who have given me invaluable info. & insight on my personal collection.  I'm just trying to return the favor where I can.
Title: Re: A Mahogany Brown beauty in the horizon ...
Post by: Dan/Panther on June 01, 2009, 03:36:48 PM
That is what makes a good forum work...
D/P
Title: Re: A Mahogany Brown beauty in the horizon ...
Post by: Dennis Markham on June 01, 2009, 04:03:02 PM
Jester, I certainly appreciate that.

I bought an Oxford Gray 500 a while back.  I plugged it in and was enjoying using it when about the second time on the phone I turned in my chair and pulled it to the floor causing some damage to the dial ring.  It was apparently brittle.  The phone fell on the raised portion (luckily the case did not crack) and pieces fell to the floor.  I was not a happy camper as one might expect.  It actually gave me that sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach.  So I am on the continual search for a replacement.

(I posted this photo back in January on another topic)
Title: Re: A Mahogany Brown beauty in the horizon ...
Post by: Jester on June 01, 2009, 11:54:01 PM
Dennis,
I know that had to be gut wrenching.  I remember you describing the damage when I posted the picture of my two-tone, but I was picturing the break under the cover where it wouldn't be seen-- not a crystalline breakout like I see in the picture.  It is a fantastic phone in every other way-- I can see why you would want another bezel.  I have not looked this thread up, so I don't know what suggestions were made when you originally posted this.  It seems to me, though, that you still have plenty of bezel left to affect a repair.  Finding a suitable accryllic filler to build up the broken out areas is where I'd start.  If you could color match it instead of just filling w/ clear, even better.  Then, some light sanding over the affected areas to lessen the "shattered" look surrounding the breakout, and obviously contouring the repair to the shape of the outer bezel.  As a final touch, I'd cover the entire bezel surface with a slow acting clear accrylic agent, then apply a vacuformed clear plastic cover right over the entire bezel & trim off the flash, reopen holes, etc.  Anybody remember vacuformed styrene model kits, or reading how to make a suction box, frame & molds to form your own parts?  This would laminate the damaged plastic between the new clear outer shell & the white base underneath the color ring that supports the numbers & letters.  A replacement would be desired, but I think this kind of repair could work.  It would make sense, though, to experiment with worthless junk & perfect the procedure before commiting the only useful example you have to this idea.
Title: Re: A Mahogany Brown beauty in the horizon ...
Post by: Steve on June 02, 2009, 12:02:23 AM

 I can feel your pain .
every time you post that photo, you make baby hey'seuss cry.
Title: Re: A Mahogany Brown beauty in the horizon ...
Post by: Dennis Markham on June 02, 2009, 12:04:47 AM
Jester, thanks for the suggestions.  That all sounds pretty detailed.  I think I will first try and find a replacement.  I have not exhausted all of my options yet.  Although I did post a request on both the ATCA and TCI List Serves looking for a replacement bezel.  

You can see from the photo that the entire dial ring appears to be shattered, probably was like that when I got it.  The pieces look like they're just waiting to crumble from the bottom layer of plastic.  I've never seen one like this before, or since.
Title: Re: A Mahogany Brown beauty in the horizon ...
Post by: Jester on June 02, 2009, 12:09:56 AM
I can understand that.  You can add one more pair of eyes to your posse.
Title: Re: A Mahogany Brown beauty in the horizon ...
Post by: bingster on June 02, 2009, 01:43:00 AM
Dennis, your oxford gray bezel looks similar to the way my '57 red looked.  The bezel's top color layer looks to have de-laminated from the bottom color layer. 

(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e376/bingsterdc/delamination.jpg)

Title: Re: A Mahogany Brown beauty in the horizon ...
Post by: Dennis Markham on June 02, 2009, 08:39:39 AM
Bingster, it does look like that.  Perhaps there was a flaw in the plastic on the early sets.  Yours looks like the top layer just broke away from the bottom.
Title: Re: A Mahogany Brown beauty in the horizon ...
Post by: Jester on June 07, 2009, 01:48:45 PM
Back to the auction;
I sure thought this one would break $200.00-- someone got a deal!  Is the winner a forum member?
Title: Re: A Mahogany Brown beauty in the horizon ...
Post by: Phonesrfun on June 07, 2009, 03:30:06 PM
Jester, I certainly appreciate that.

I bought an Oxford Gray 500 a while back.  I plugged it in and was enjoying using it when about the second time on the phone I turned in my chair and pulled it to the floor causing some damage to the dial ring.  It was apparently brittle.  The phone fell on the raised portion (luckily the case did not crack) and pieces fell to the floor.  I was not a happy camper as one might expect.  It actually gave me that sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach.  So I am on the continual search for a replacement.

(I posted this photo back in January on another topic)

Dennis:

Did you try Vern Potter in Salt Lake City?  He may have something.  He has a lot of oddball early colored 500 parts.  If it does, it may take him a while to look. 

-Bill
Title: Re: A Mahogany Brown beauty in the horizon ...
Post by: Dan/Panther on June 07, 2009, 03:39:56 PM
Bingster;
Maybe that problem is from disimilar plastics separating over time from exspansion and retraction ?

Dennis;
Having another look at you dial bezel, it dawned on me that the color I'm looking at is almost identical to hardened JB Weld.
Check it out.
D/P

Dennis;
I noticed that as I scroll down, to where previous posts are listed below the reply box, Bingsters photo of his red bezel appears , but no others, This is the first photo I've seen in the previous posts area ?
D/P
Title: Re: A Mahogany Brown beauty in the horizon ...
Post by: Dennis Markham on June 07, 2009, 04:10:00 PM
Dan, I'm not following your comment about seeing photos from previous posts.  You're seeing Bingster's photo of the red dial bezel but cannot see the photo I posted of the cracked Oxford Gray bezel???
Title: Re: A Mahogany Brown beauty in the horizon ...
Post by: bingster on June 07, 2009, 04:32:50 PM
Bingster;
Maybe that problem is from disimilar plastics separating over time from exspansion and retraction ?

That could very well be the case.  The phone's shell is slightly warped, and I'm thinking it may have been relegated to an attic, where it would have been subjected to extreme heat and cold cycles.  It was extremely filthy, too, so it may have been in an outbuilding of some sort, where the same conditions would have occurred.

By the way, Dennis' photo is on this page, a few posts above mine.   You're not seeing it?
Title: Re: A Mahogany Brown beauty in the horizon ...
Post by: Dan/Panther on June 07, 2009, 04:38:44 PM
When I go to post a reply, and scroll down to read previous posts below the reply box, Bingsters photo shows up, but no other ones do. They all show up in the posts, just not in the previous posts under the reply box. It's not really a problem, just wondered why I've never seen photos below the reply box before ?
It doesn't effect the list view, just when you go to reply.

D/P
Title: Re: A Mahogany Brown beauty in the horizon ...
Post by: bingster on June 07, 2009, 05:52:39 PM
Oooooooh...

Yes, that's because pics uploaded via the forum software don't show on the reply page.  Mine shows because it's linked to from photobucket.
Title: Re: A Mahogany Brown beauty in the horizon ...
Post by: Dan on June 07, 2009, 06:10:20 PM
Someone got a good deal on that Mahogany. I hope they know us so they can use jester's dial and generous offer. It's still hard for me to go over $100 on a phone, but I'm cheap!