Classic Rotary Phones Forum

Telephone Identification, Repair & Restoration => Telephone Restoration Projects and Techniques => Discolored Plastic and Bakelite - Improving it Chemically => Topic started by: Dan on June 07, 2009, 05:46:08 PM

Title: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: Dan on June 07, 2009, 05:46:08 PM
PART I

As per Dan/Panther's request, I am going to provide a DETAILED step by step procedure for the "bleaching " hydrogen peroxide process. It has worked so far for me with a soft plastic tenite white phone and  hard plastic white, aqua, and pink phones.
I will do this for a Ivory 1956 soft plastic handset voice cap and leave the earpiece alone . If it works well, I will do the entire phone. I know this works on the others.

Ingredients
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt253/dvortv/Pinkpostperoxide012.jpg)

1. Sodium Carbonate
The cheapest form of this is not the "oxy" detergents at the stores, but rather
Arm & Hammer Super Washing Soda. Krogers, 3lb 7 oz box-around $4

2. Hydrogen Peroxide 40% -called Salon Care 40 volume clear developer (40% peroxide) This can be diluted down to 20% or whatever you want by simply adding water.Buy @
Sallys Beauty supply house- I quart  $5.00(get the clear liquid NOT the cream)

3. The hard one -Arrow Root Starch/Flour . Very expensive. 20 oz bag (smallest I could find--$7 at a local natural food store. I bet corn starch @ the Kroger for .99 cents may work, but I followed the formula precisely.

PART 2

The procedure

I started with the 20% formula (1/3 cup 40% peroxide, 1/3 cup water).
Mix the 20% solution  with two  tablespoons  of arrowroot(or cornstarch) in microwave  for 15 secs. Make sure  you are stirring every 15 secs. After about 45 secs total, it will get very thick, like shaving gel consistancy.This is the thickness you want.

Gel all mixed up -applesauce thickness

(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt253/dvortv/mossgreen5001957006.jpg)                   

Add heaping 1/2 teaspoon  Arm and hammer "oxy"to the hot H2O2 gel and it will froth and bubble up nicely. Apply with a toothbrush or a small paint brush

Here's the caps. The earpiece is flipped to show the true ivory color, the mouthpiece will be peroxided. It is yellowed. Here's the frothy mix too after the soda washing soda is added:

(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt253/dvortv/Pinkpostperoxide014.jpg)

(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt253/dvortv/Pinkpostperoxide015.jpg)

(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt253/dvortv/Pinkpostperoxide018.jpg) light is an old 100 watt incandescant bulb under on old milwaukee beer light

(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt253/dvortv/Pinkpostperoxide016.jpg)  peroxide added to cap

(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt253/dvortv/Pinkpostperoxide019.jpg)   cap under light

Wait SIX hours minimum -I do it overnight. If you sleep longer , no big deal.

Part Three ... to be continued

Tomorrow we will compare the cap to the pre-peroxided one







Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: Dan on June 07, 2009, 11:02:27 PM
Well , its been almost six hours for the cap. I washed it off in hot water, dried it with a paper towel. Great results!

Compare the mouthpiece to the underside of the earpiece-matches now!

(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt253/dvortv/ivoryperoxide021.jpg)

Compare the mouthpiece to the otherside of the unwhitened (peroxided) ear piece--you can see the yellow difference.

(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt253/dvortv/ivoryperoxide0212.jpg)

Here is the phone. I will do the rest tomorrow and post pictures.

WE500 1956 Soft Plastic Yellowed Ivory prior to peroxide (bleaching)

(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt253/dvortv/ivorypre-peroxide021.jpg) :D

Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: Phonesrfun on June 07, 2009, 11:14:47 PM
Excellent....Excellent.

Tonight I am going to mix up a batch and try it again, this time with the light, and I got some of the Arm and Hammer Super wash too.  Thanks for posting the detailed instructions.

-Bill
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: Dan on June 07, 2009, 11:21:07 PM
You are so welcome. What color are you brightening? The results look better than the pics. Remember my white one?

Before

(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt253/dvortv/badilyyellowedphone-1.jpg)


After

(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt253/dvortv/whitephone001-2.jpg)

I even whitened the cords on this one!
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: Phonesrfun on June 08, 2009, 12:57:31 AM
I am doing a white one, and also some odds and ends to see the results.  Complete white 500.  Light gray handset with caps, pink handset with caps, and turquoise caps only, and a tan faceplate from an ITT key set.

This time I have the 100 watt light.  I made up my batch, and used the blender after the microwave to get it really mixed up.  I am still using Xantham gum, and I think it is more potent than the arrow root.  Two heaping tablespoons made the thing kind of like tar, or flubber or something.  I could not spread it; it was so thick.  So I dumped that out and used two level teaspoons.  This time, after I added the Arm and Hammer, it came up a nice, pure white light fluffy gel, like you said.  It really looks like I remember my mom's merengue she made for lemon merengue pies.  The one thing that may not be right is that the blender seems to insert lots of air to make it white and fluffy.  I hope the light can get through.

It spreads very well, and so I have high hopes.  It went on at 9:30pm Pacific, so time will tell.  Since I am dealing with experimental stuff, I have the luxury of this being an experiment.

If all turns out well, I intend to bring a lot of reference material to the Seattle phone show for show and tell.

Stay tuned....

Oh, by the way, does the heat from the light dry it out to require re-coating? 


-Bill
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: Dan on June 08, 2009, 01:19:18 AM
It will dry out and almost have a chrunchy consistancy. Think of mom's mac $ cheese -the part that is on the edge of the baking pan . You don't want it too thick, just thick enough to cover the phone with an even consistancy. Really the blender is not needed, I mixed it in with a spoon like Nestle's quik.

Don't worry about it drying out , the light /gel combo is the magic and that's all that is needed.
Also, the light can be three feet above the phone or six inches -the BRIGHTNESS is the key, not the heat.
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: Phonesrfun on June 08, 2009, 01:39:47 AM
Here is what the process looks like right now.

-Bill
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: contraste on June 08, 2009, 03:07:59 AM
Very informative gentlemen.

Thanks for posting.

Lee
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: foots on June 08, 2009, 04:22:07 AM
Thanks for posting this. I know what I'll be doing this weekend. I have a white 500, and a light blue 554. 40% for white, 20% for handsets and colored plastics right? What % did you use for the cord?
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: Dan on June 08, 2009, 10:11:51 AM
I used 20 for the cord because back then , that's the only concentration I knew they sold. Try 20 cause I knew it worked and I don't know what 40 would do on vinyl.
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: Dan on June 08, 2009, 10:14:38 AM
Hey Bill, are you using 20 on all or 40 on the white and 20 on the colours?
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: Phonesrfun on June 08, 2009, 10:50:19 AM
I am using 20 cut down to 15 on all items.

Still disappointed, I think the blender is out.  It makes it too foamy, so I think less of the product comes in contact with the plastic.  I have some 40 that I haven't used yet.

You asked another question in the other thread about checking the receiver with the ohm meter.  You need to unhook the receiver from the rest of the phone to measure the resistance.  More information to follow...

I am on my way out the door to work, and my mornings at work are always pretty crazy, so I will catch up later on and we can give each other further info on our respective projects.  What time zone are you in?  Pacific here.

Cheers,

-Bill
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: Dan on June 08, 2009, 06:26:01 PM
Eastern. Look at my cap vs your gel. Yours it like whipped cream, while mine is like tapioca (I love food analogies). It needs to be a little wetter to cover evenly. I am doing my Ivory tonight and will post pics. Leave the blender out of the mix.later on
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: Dan on June 08, 2009, 10:52:12 PM
I have taken apart the phone for whitening. I take off the finger wheel and brass nut and spider washer, but leave the dial intact (I tape it off with masking tape) I don't want to screw up a good working dial. Put cardboard or something under the dial to level it (or take it off the phone--too much work for me ) . Take off the little  tray that  holds the plastic plungers in place. Invert the plungers in the holes, they will block any gel from getting in the hole opening (or tape off the opening). I tape around the dial plate to act as a gel  holder so it doesn't flow. Do the handset caps separately. I'm going to do the cord too on this one. I don't even take the cord out of the receiver (less work). Tape it off-much easier.

(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt253/dvortv/Pinkpostperoxide021.jpg)

Mix the gel and apply it-quickly-you want it in place  ASAP it will continue to foam and bubble, as it does, it's harder to work with. This is why I use the tape, you can get it on fast and sloppy and not worry.

(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt253/dvortv/Pinkpostperoxide022.jpg)

(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt253/dvortv/Pinkpostperoxide023.jpg)

Off to bed. I will clean them up in the morning.(six hours or so later)



Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: Phonesrfun on June 08, 2009, 11:51:17 PM
Dan:

I have been pretty busy tonight with the Seattle show, so I don't think I am going to do any bleaching tonight, but I did stop at Sally's on the way home from work and bought some more H2O2.

What color is the one you are currently baking?  (you said you liked to talk in food analogies)  ;D

-Bill
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: Dan on June 09, 2009, 12:03:04 AM
Ivory. It is yellowed. Look @ the pick of the underside of the earcap. I am shooting for this for the whole phone. It currently looks more light beige than ivory.
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: Steve on June 09, 2009, 12:17:53 AM

 I am sorry to post in this thread, as it is informative (Mods please delete if necessary) but the results are amazing! the outside of the cap appears to be the same as the inside. is this the result in person as well?
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: Dan on June 09, 2009, 12:28:04 AM
Yes it is Steve, it is exciting. We'll see how the rest of it goes tomorrow. It actually looks better in person than on the pics
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: Phonesrfun on June 09, 2009, 01:08:17 AM
I wasn't going to do it tonight, but when I remembered this Princess shell, I could not resist the temptation.  The shell itself is crap because it is so cracked and broken.  But I think I will do some bleaching tonight and see what happens in the morning.  After all I can't go wrong here!

-Bill
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: HobieSport on June 09, 2009, 01:35:28 AM
Bill I'll be really interested to see how it goes with your Princess phone because I have two aqua 500s that I'd like to try the peroxide on.  Is your Princess an aqua phone?

-Matt
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: Phonesrfun on June 09, 2009, 01:45:55 AM
I am pretty sure it is aqua.

With all that discoloration, it almost looks sea-green.

I went kind of heavy on the mix, so I need to watch it carefully.  I don't want blotches.

-Bill
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: foots on June 09, 2009, 03:53:08 AM
My 554 looks to be that same light blue color and is yellowed, though no quite that badly. What are your plans for that handset?
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: Dan on June 09, 2009, 09:38:34 AM
I did a white princess about that yellowed. It took three applications of 6 hours each @ 20%. That's a good one to experiment on. Keep us posted, thanks. My aqua was barely yellow, so yours is a better test.
Title: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions (Change did happen)
Post by: Phonesrfun on June 09, 2009, 11:19:14 AM
Well, it did change.  This is the result of about 8 hours and a 40% solution.

The interesting thing is that it seems to be loosing its color entirely, but only on the parts that were originally UV damaged.  Notice that the parts that were always bright aqua are still bright aqua.  The parts that were very yellowed now appear to be a very light blue.  The photo makes it seem almost light gray, but in reality it is a very light blue.

There is also that white-ish film on the surface that people have talked about.  I will try to polish that out and see what becomes of that.  I may need to treat it some more too.  Somewhere under all that UV damage is color, dang it!

As usual, I am running late for work this morning, so I will take this up again tonight.

-Bill
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: Dan on June 09, 2009, 08:24:31 PM
Bill , I used 40% on a moss green and it didn't work so well. I feel 20% is the most you should go on colored ones. It is lighter though. 40 kicks butt on white ones.


"Burnt" Moss green from 40%


(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt253/dvortv/oldbakelite2.jpg)
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: Dan on June 09, 2009, 08:54:49 PM
Here are the results of 20% one  six hour application on a 1956 WE500 soft tenite Ivory.

1 )  Inside of shell for comparison sake

(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt253/dvortv/Pinkpostperoxide025.jpg)

2 )  Outside of shell post - peroxide

(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt253/dvortv/Pinkpostperoxide026.jpg)

3 )  original overall BEFORE peroxide

(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt253/dvortv/ivoryafter001.jpg)

4 )  Overall result so far after one application

(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt253/dvortv/Pinkpostperoxide027.jpg)

Better, but I am going another round and I think it will be where it needs to be. More pictures to follow tomorrow.
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: JorgeAmely on June 09, 2009, 08:57:54 PM
Slightly off topic:

I am curious to know how do you place text in between picture attachments?
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: bingster on June 09, 2009, 09:29:27 PM
That's done by linking to photos uploaded somewhere else, like photobucket.  It can't be done with the forum's picture uploader function.
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: Dan on June 09, 2009, 09:35:59 PM
Slightly off topic:

I am curious to know how do you place text in between picture attachments?

Send me a private message, my high school son helped me figure it all out. It's not hard
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: Phonesrfun on June 09, 2009, 09:47:03 PM
Bill , I used 40% on a moss green and it didn't work so well. I feel 20% is the most you should go on colored ones. It is lighter though. 40 kicks butt on white ones.


I am wondering about the use of bleaching on a darker phone at all.  After all, by definition, the bleaching process is to lighten.  We are trying to get rid of the discoloration that we don't want, but I think the bleadhing process is going to attack all colors, even the ones we would like to keep.

I am also thinking about something I read that the UV discoloration that the hard ABS plastic goes through is due to the chemical interraction that something in the plastic has gone through over time, aided by the UV light.   So, I am thinking that something in the color has actually chemically changed. 

So, will bleaching bring back those darker colors of the aqua blue or moss green phones?  I am starting to think not.  It may be that the old fashioned sanding and polishing method will have to do for those colors.

White, ivory, and light beige are another story.  Especially white.  In that case, we want the absence of all color.

Dan, I am starting to see that the results I got on my piece of junk princess were similar to your moss green 500.  You must not have done the handset, because it still looks good.

So,  I am going to go back to the drawing board and do two more batches tonight.  One, I am going to do a second application on the junker aqua princess body at 20 percent.  Two, I think I have another white princess shell that is really light damaged.  It is not cracked and would look great if I could do what the toothpaste ads used to say and "get the yellow out".  I will probably do a 40% application on that.

What about D/P.... If you are following this, have you done a darker phone? If so, what were the results.  You may have already said, but I have seen so many posts on this subject here and in other places that I can't keep up.

Cheers to all,

-Bill

Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: JorgeAmely on June 09, 2009, 09:52:18 PM
Bad joke alert!

If you put the peroxide solution on a black phone, will that turn it into a blond (yellow) phone? Good material for discussion over a case of beer and pizza!

Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: Dan on June 09, 2009, 09:53:11 PM
Bill your color theory is spot on correct. Dan/Panther did a pink one that really looked good. It was more yellow than faded. When it is all said and done, the sanding method is the choice for dark colors, while peroxide will work for light ones.
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: Phonesrfun on June 10, 2009, 01:15:14 AM
Ok, my next victim.

This one is in real good physical shape.  No real scratches, and it is a 701B Princess dated 3/62.  Being a 701, this phone has the original style Princess network and no ringer in the base.  But what the heck is its color??

I don't know!

At first I thought it was a discolored white phone.  However, even the insides of the handset and the inside of the shell are yellow-ish.  It looks ivory, but the outsides of the receiver and transmitter caps are whiter than even the inside of the shell.  Also, in 1962 I don't think they made a Princess in ivory.  Probably beige.   Truly a mystery.

But, it is going to get the treatment nonetheless.  There is some fading and discoloration, as can be seen by the parts of the outside of the shell where the receiver sits when on hook.  Also the receiver handle is darker outside than inside.  In the photo it almost looks like a pale yellow, but I don't think Western ever made such a pale pale yellow, even when they made yellow.  My 1961 Bell System local phone book advertises the Princess in five colors:

Your Choice of Color    The Princess phone comes in five attractive decorator colors: White, Beige, Blue, Pink and Turquoise.  Call your Business Office today - for colorful telephoning.

Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: Dan/Panther on June 10, 2009, 02:59:09 PM
Bill, Dan;
I have the same colored Princess as Bill tried the method on. The receiver cap which is not original to the phone and slightly more yellow, has had 3 treatments with very little change. The body of the phone is better, but like Bill points out, seems to be fading along with the yellow. I do not see how this method is going to show an aqua phone, bright aqua again, like original.
I also have found a very thin crust, of a very hard like material, that can be scraped off with a finger nail, and appears to be like a coating has formed in crevasses. Just procede with caution on expensive phones. Treat at your own risk so to speak. Do we really know what we are doing here. We may find later on that the plastic truns brittle, or begins to flake, we just don't know.
D/P
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: Dan on June 10, 2009, 06:04:13 PM
Well I'm back with the second round of bleaching on the Ivory '56. We have a WINNER  now :o :o :o

1)  For completeness sake, here is the underside to relate to, once again

(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt253/dvortv/Pinkpostperoxide025.jpg)

2)  Now the front, after TWO rounds of 20%

(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt253/dvortv/ivoryending001.jpg)

3)  Inside of caps --baseline guide to try to match

(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt253/dvortv/capsdone001.jpg)

4)  Outside of caps--two rounds of 20%

(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt253/dvortv/capsdone002.jpg)

5)  Overall Before whitening

(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt253/dvortv/ivorypre-peroxide021.jpg)

6)  Overall after two rounds

(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt253/dvortv/overallfinished56.jpg)

Nice!!! ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: Dan on June 10, 2009, 06:10:29 PM
We have learned

1. White works the best, whether you do it with three rounds of 20% or two rounds of 40% I have done Soft and hard plastic with outstanding results

2. Ivory works very well too. Soft plastic

3. Pink worked well for Dan/P and me too. Make sure the phone is yellowed, not faded. Yellowed pink phones look like a "salmon" colour.

4. Aqua blue is not a good candidate, although I had a SLIGHTLY yellowed one that became bluer .

5. No to Greens


Use 40% on whites, I would use 20% on all others using the underside of the phones and caps as a guide and goal to get to.

I hope this has been informative to you all. It is interesting and fun for me!
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: Dennis Markham on June 10, 2009, 06:16:37 PM
Thanks you guys...great information and inspiration.  I have a couple of white phones that I'd like to try this on....eventually!
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: Dan on June 10, 2009, 06:16:45 PM
Bill that princess is light beige. It will match and work well. My guess is three rounds of 20%
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: Stephen Furley on June 15, 2009, 06:02:40 PM
What type of UV light should be used?  The best source is likely to be low-pressure mercury, but there are at least four different types:

Blacklight.  The ones used in 'insect killers'.  They're just a fluorescent tube with a phosphor which emits in the UV-A range; they also emit a certain amount of visible light, mainly at the blue-violet end.

Blacklight blue, as above, but with the tube made of dark blue 'woods glass' to absorb almost all of the visible light.  Used mainly to make things fluoresce in applications such as identification of minerals, fake document detection, etc.

Sunbed tubes, with a phosphor designed to emit shorter wavelength UV-B.  Doesn't do skin any good, despite it's main use.

Germicidal tubes which have no phosphor but have clear glass, and use the UV-C emission of the low-pressure mercury discharge directly, and have a special glass which transmits this.  Causes very sore, painful eyes after just a short exposure.  Used in things like water sterilisers and some types of air-conditioning plant, and for erasing EPROM chips.

I've got examples of all of these except the sunbed tube, but which to use?
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: Dennis Markham on June 15, 2009, 06:37:40 PM
I don't know much about this other than what I've read, but I think the best source would be the sun itself.  If you can put the part that you're bleaching outside in the sun all day, it seems like that would be best.  I thought I read on the original web site to use sunlight.  But I may be mistaken.  I thought also it said to put it in a plastic bag with substance on it to keep it from drying.
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: JorgeAmely on June 15, 2009, 06:39:03 PM
There is an article about hydrogen peroxide in Wikipedia.

An interesting section says: "Hydrogen peroxide always decomposes (disproportionates) exothermically into water and oxygen gas spontaneously:

    2 H2O2 → 2 H2O + O2

This process is very favorable thermodynamically. It has a ΔHo of −98.2 kJ·mol−1 and a ΔGo of −119.2 kJ·mol−1 and a ΔS of 70.5 J·mol−1·K−1. The rate of decomposition is dependent on the temperature and concentration of the peroxide, as well as the pH and the presence of impurities and stabilizers."

It doesn't mention anything about light of any kind to make the reaction take place, however, the decomposition is a function of temperature. I think that means that the warmer the substance over the plastic is, the better it should work. A heat lamp or just plain old sun, should work OK.

Any chemists in the group?


Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: Dan on June 15, 2009, 09:18:36 PM
I am not a chemist, but I know a little bit about oxygenation , bleaching, and the like from dentistry. The sun is a great source like Dennis mentioned, but I like a 100 watt incandescent bulb  . It generates a little heat, unlike the flourescent bulbs, which helped especially well with the badly yellowed white telephones.I found keeping it wet was not a huge factor overall. I'd say blacklight bulbs are too dim and won't work as well.
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: Bill on June 16, 2009, 10:27:59 AM
I'm under the impression that plain old incandescent bulbs produce a lot of heat (infrared, which is at the long-wave end of the visible specturm), but almost no UV (which is at the other end of the spectrum entirely). That's why incandescent bulbs are useless for growing indoor plants, since UV is required for photosynthesis. But the heat might stimulate the decomposition of peroxide as mentioned by George Amely above.

Bill
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: bwanna on June 16, 2009, 12:35:06 PM
"sun bleaching" works wonders on yellowed antique linens. why not fones, too? i have a white 702bm that i am going to set outside today.

as for heating the peroxide solution, if you have ever lightened your hair, you know that  heat will accelerate the process. so i was thinking about putting a set covered with the peroxide solution under an old bonnet hair dryer. but maybe this would be too hot on the plastic.

 i also have a princess in that mystery ivory color(12-60). definitely not beige, but no trace of white, even inside the caps.
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: JorgeAmely on June 16, 2009, 01:53:52 PM
I think sun exposure is not a good way to bleach plastics because the UV light in sun light as well as fluorescent lights is what causes the plastics to fade into a yellowish color. I prefer tungsten lamps where I keep plastic phones for this reason. If addition, using a coating to diminish UV light exposure is probably a good idea.

A good experiment would be to use household bleach. The oxidizing agent is chlorine, not hydrogen peroxide. Chlorine is not as strong as hydrogen peroxide, therefore, the exposure time would be longer, I suspect. It is also easier to prepare: you can buy a gallon at your local store and would be enough to submerge an entire phone in it (plastics only, of course).

There is a good paragraph in plastics degradation here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultraviolet#Degradation_of_polymers.2C_pigments_and_dyes

My 2 cents.

 
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: benhutcherson on June 16, 2009, 05:19:38 PM

It doesn't mention anything about light of any kind to make the reaction take place, however, the decomposition is a function of temperature. I think that means that the warmer the substance over the plastic is, the better it should work. A heat lamp or just plain old sun, should work OK.

Any chemists in the group?

Hydrogen peroxide is unstable enough that light will indeed cause it to break down.

Visible light should have some effect, but UV is even better.
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: Dan/Panther on June 23, 2009, 02:20:32 PM
Hydrogen Peroxide, will also breakdown into water, if not properly sealed in it's container.
D/P
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: McHeath on June 24, 2010, 12:30:21 AM
So I finally got around to trying this formula.  I got a white 554 for Father's Day that was deeply yellowed, it looked beige or ivory.  Even the inside was not pure white anymore, only the inside of the handset was still holding the original color.  It yellowed nice and evenly, you could have hung it on the wall and people would have thought it was a nice beige phone.

Here is what I did.

I went to Sally's Beauty supply and got the 40% hydrogen peroxide in the clear mix.  Cost was $3.39.  Bought corn starch instead of arrowroot as it's dirt cheap at Wally Mart, a buck for a good sized box.  For the sodium carbonate I just used some of the Cascade dishwasher detergent, while it has some other ingredients as well, including bleach, it was cheaper to just dash out the teaspoon from the box under the sink.

So total cost is about $4.49 plus whatever a teaspoon of the Cascade works out to.  This gave me three treatments.

Used 2/3rds of a cup of the hydrogen peroxide, added two slightly heaping tablespoons of the corn starch, and heated in the microwave for about 45 seconds until it turned thick.

Added the teaspoon of Cascade, mixed it in a bowl with a spoon, let it sit for a few minutes.  It got hot, bubbled a bit, and was ready.

Used a 1.5 inch paint brush, applied a thick thick coat of the goo all over the plastics.  Did this out in the garage at the workbench as it smells bad.  Put one lamp with a 60 watt regular bulb on it and left it for 12 hours, overnight.

Soaked the parts in the sink with hot water for about 30 minutes and it came right off.

It worked, but not evenly.  It was obvious that the light made a difference, the parts more exposed to the light were whiter.

Second application, same as first but with two lamps this time, both 60 watts, and covering all the parts with light.  Left it for 9 hours.  Soaked for 30 minutes in sink and again it came out clean.

Much better results!  Almost white again, darn close.  Huge improvement. 

So it's out in the garage for a final treatment, we will have the results in the morning.

This process actually works, and works well.  The light seems to be critical, but we can substitute corn starch for the expensive arrowroot and even use ordinary Cascade for the sodium carbonate.  When it's done tomorrow I'll post some pics. 

Don't get this stuff on you, it burns a bit.  I used gloves and wore and apron and googles.  Looked like Bill Nye the Science guy, but I don't really want to lose an eye for phones.   :)

 
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: JorgeAmely on June 24, 2010, 01:13:05 AM
McH:

Remember that finlover uses a mylar lined fish tank plus a UV light on top to evenly distribute the light. That may save you from doing double exposure.
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: Dan on June 24, 2010, 09:50:15 AM
McHeath, glad to see you are having great results. The cheaper ingrediants you substituted make it even more practical to use this treatment.

I do believe the light makes a big difference.
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: jsowers on June 24, 2010, 11:37:07 AM
The even fading on that 554 sounds like smoke fade to me. Smoke gets to all the crevices inside and out, where sunlight just gets to the exposed areas.

Have you tried the good old summer sun? I've always had good results with bleaching in sunlight and it's only one or two days' exposure, compared to the lifetime it took to fade it. Or is that too intense for this formula? The mylar lining sounds like a very good idea too.

Thanks for the detailed instructions. It sounds fairly easy and not too expensive. I wonder if liquid dishwasher detergent would work as well? Or did you use liquid?
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: McHeath on June 24, 2010, 02:46:14 PM
Well it's still not white enough.  The handset is close to perfect, and one cap is as well.  But the shell needs at least another dose, as does the other cap and the fingerwheel.  Too bad really as I thought I was ready to polish and put it on the wall.

Thinking of trying compact fluro's in the lamps instead of old time incand bulbs. 

But I will say that even though this takes some time and hassle its way better than sanding and polishing.  In my opinion that is.

Here is a pic of the whole deal in progress, and the curious crusting that develops as it dries on the phone. 
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: Kenny C on June 24, 2010, 03:08:11 PM
if i call our local beauty store what am i to ask for
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: HarrySmith on June 24, 2010, 03:48:31 PM
When I did the treatment I used sunlight, the UV reacts with the formula to make it work is what I was told. I was also told to wrap it to keep it moist as it stops working when dry. I got great esults in one try with a white phone.
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: Dewdrop on June 24, 2010, 08:05:04 PM
Harry,

What did you use to wrap the phone moist and how long in the sunlight?

Thanks
Debbie
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: Dan on June 24, 2010, 08:35:57 PM
I agree compared to  sanding, this blows it away. It is much easier.
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: Jim Stettler on June 24, 2010, 08:58:51 PM
Ray K. uses a full liquid solution. He told me that his thought on streaking is due to an unbalanced solution.
His thought is full liquid creates a uniform "finish"
Something to think about,
Jim
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: HarrySmith on June 25, 2010, 07:18:58 AM
I used shrink wrap to cover my phone after applying the paste, I would imagine Saran Wrap or something similar would work. I left it out in the South Florida sun for 6 hours, turning every hour. One person I was discussing the process with told me I was lucky to have the South Florida sun that in other parts of the country it would not be as strong. I recall reading about the full liquid process someone used but never quite figured it out or tried it. I also recall discussion that the colors after the full liquid treatment were not correct. I had great results with a white phone and a beige one that were both badly discolored. The results with a yellow handset were disastrous, it was ruined, bleached white in places.
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: Dan on June 25, 2010, 08:19:38 AM
The green one(moss green) that I had burnt (almost swirled) result  with the whitening process I finally got aroung to sanding, and it came back to normal. You could probably sand your yellow and it would come back.
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: HarrySmith on June 25, 2010, 08:24:44 AM
Yeah, swirled is a good description! I might try sanding it but I was thinking about creating a tie dyed phone with it! :)
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: Jim Stettler on June 25, 2010, 01:00:04 PM
Poor man swirlees, you could sell them for big bucks on ebay.
Jim
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: McHeath on June 26, 2010, 01:11:40 AM
Final report on the 554.  It took 4 peroxide treatments but it finally removed most of the yellow.  I'd say that 97% of the yellow is gone, but it sure was stubborn.  The yellowing was probably mostly smoke damage as it was inside the shell and the caps on the handset.

The microphone cap was the worst and simply would not respond.  So I put it in a glass of straight 40% peroxide and sat it in the sun for 4 hours.  That did the trick and it removed most of the yellow and brought it to the same whiteness level as the rest of the plastics.

Also, the last full peroxide treatment I used the compact fluro lamps and got better results.  Plus, the microphone cap in full sun really whitened up.  From my experience it seems that UV light works better than not.

All the plastics on this phone are ABS, by the way, replaced in 82'.

Now for the long term test, how will the plastics hold their new clean color and will they become brittle?  I polished them with my usual car finish polish, TR-3, they shined up well.  The handset cord is new old stock, it was still sealed in the bag. 

And naturally the phone works well, I'm very pleased with the results.  For a yellowed white phone this is the way to go rather than sanding.  I've sanded several phones now and while it gives good results you lose some of the sharpness and contours of the plastics if you do the whole phone.  I think thats unfortunate, and it nice to have this phone with all its original lines intact. 
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: Kenny C on June 26, 2010, 01:30:13 AM
It looks Fabulous Do you care if I save the last picture and put it on my facebook
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: Dan on June 26, 2010, 07:16:11 AM
They do not get more brittle. My thin shelled princess is as strong as ever. Nice job and good result!
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: Dennis Markham on June 26, 2010, 09:11:34 AM
Heath, it looks very good. The photos have kind of a yellow tint to them, maybe from the lighting.  It would be nice to see the phone taken outdoors in even daylight to see the actual color.  But your improvements looks really nice.
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: HarrySmith on June 26, 2010, 10:05:32 AM
Looks good! I am glad you got positive results with the peroxide. It is a much easier method of getting color back and as you stated you do not lose details. The first phone I refinished, my Pink 500, which I sanded, came out nice looking color but I lost the WE markings on the body & handset also the reinforcement ribbing around the cord holes so I do not want to do that again. White and light beige seem to be the best candidates for peroxide.
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: McHeath on June 26, 2010, 10:18:34 AM
Sure Kenny go ahead.

I agree Dennis that the pics have a yellowish tint, that seems to the the problem with taking pictures in my kitchen which is all paneled with maple and then only has fluorescent lights.  (plus I'm not a great photographer)  The phone is actually very white, I'll try to take a shot outdoors today with it.

When I sanded the heck out of a phone last year to try to remove the yellow it actually lost the sharpness of the edges on the cradle ears, among other things.  I've since sanded phones and done better than that, but they still, to my eye, have lost a bit of their original crispness.  But from all Ive read this process is not really going to work on dark colored phones, nor is it going to remove scratches, so some sanding will be needed it seems in some cases.



Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: Dennis Markham on June 26, 2010, 10:27:06 AM
Heath, I've yet to try this process but your method combined with the experience of others once again makes me want to try it here.  I have a couple white phones that I'd like to brighten.  One is soft plastic and I'll have to try it on some soft plastic that won't matter if I damage it.  Thanks for showing your experiment process here.  I'd say it was a huge success.  Any time one can improve the looks without using the dreaded sandpaper it's a good thing.
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: McHeath on June 26, 2010, 01:07:41 PM
Thanks Dennis.  I was lucky in that there were no major scratches or nicks on the phone.  It had a lot of use, the receiver cap is worn down flat were it goes into the hook, but that was about it.  That actually served to give me a benchmark of how white it ought to be as the wear spots scraped through the yellow. 

I would also note that soaking the microphone cap in straight 40% peroxide in direct sun whitened the underside of the cap as well as the top.   I had tinfoil under the glass, that may have helped, and the cap kept wanting to float in the liquid which would have allowed the light underneath. 
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: Kenny C on September 26, 2010, 09:04:50 PM
A word of advise:
DO NOT USE SILVER TO STIR IT WITH!!!!!! I messed up my moms silver serving spoon with it. It was laying on the counter top and I just used it. I didnt know it was silver. ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: Brinybay on March 28, 2011, 04:02:41 AM
I'm getting ready to try this process on a couple of white phones I have.  So from reading this thread, all I needed was a regular 100w light bulb?  I have a 250 w "Sun Lamp" I found in a Goodwill, but it says "infra-red" on it, should I not use that? 

Ingredients I have are 40% peroxide, Oxiclean, and regular store-bought corn starch.  I don't have time to hunt down specific brands.  I'm also glad somebody warned of the smell, I'm doing this in my small apt.  I planned to put them in a plastic tup in the standard tub/shower I have, drape the lamp over an extra shower curtain rod and let it hang down over the parts. The lamp is a "brooder lamp" I got in a hardware store.
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: GG on March 28, 2011, 11:58:15 AM


One thing to NEVER EVER EVER mix with peroxide: Anything with acetone in it. 

Reason why:  that mixture is a powerful and highly unstable explosive.  It will blow up if you so much as sneeze on it, and it can KILL you. 

This, by the way, is the real reason the TSA does not allow bringing liquids on airplanes.  It's not classified information but it's not particularly public, and I figure it's safe to post here since it's highly unlikely that any would-be terrorists or suchlike are reading this stuff. 

(For anyone here who may have legitimate need for an explosive to fracture boulders on your property, there is a much safer alternative now: something known as "expanding grout," sometimes by the slang name "Chinese dynamite" (might have been developed in China?).  You drill a hole in the boulder using a percussion drill, then you mix up the expanding grout with water to make a thin slurry like pancake batter, then pour it in and mark the area "Stay Out!" and go away for a couple of days.  When you come back, your boulder will be neatly fractured into easily removable chunks.  Apparently this works by hydrostatic pressure.  When the boulder fractures it may send little pieces flying so you don't want to get too close for a few days until it's done its job.  I don't know if it works for tree stumps; probably yes but larger amounts might be needed since wood is compressible.) 
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: GG on March 28, 2011, 12:13:59 PM


Brinybay, what you've got there is a heat lamp that puts out a lot of infrared and very little UV.  I think that might be the wrong type of lamp entirely, and the heat may also MELT or WARP plastics, particularly Tenite.  So I'd suggest not using that light.  A plain white floodlight might be better. 

The original Retro-Bright site says that UV is helpful because it imparts energy to the process in a manner that specifically works with the chemical reactions that are occurring.  We seem to have discovered (someone who posted at the beginning) that incandescent lights are almost as good for this, so it may be the mild heat from the light, rather than sunlight as such, or it may be something else in the light spectrum. 

I've got a Swiss dial phone that was advertised as "two-tone white" by TelephoneLines, the phone shop in the UK that had red BT payphones years ago (got one of those from them too).  This was obviously an instance where the handset was original color "warm white" and the housing was yellowed all to h---, so I got it (relatively cheaply too) with the intent of putting it through the Retro-Bright treatment. 

Now that I know where to find strong peroxide (as in, I'm going to get some today), I can have a go at this.  I've also got an AE 87 in beige that's faded to yellowish-beige that's a candidate, and some other stuff that could use the treatment. 

If you have a phone where some of the parts yellowed and others didn't, it's highly likely that the parts that didn't yellow are actually painted (Bell used a special paint for this purpose, very difficult to tell it was used).  I have a 554 where the dial & handset are ferociously yellowed (like, almost to beige) but the main housing is white (and scuffy-looking) so we'll see if that comes out anywhere near decent. 

I'm going to stick my neck out and say that green phones might be treatable IF you dilute the peroxide to somewhere around 10% and watch the process carefully.  It might be best to actually soak the parts so they're fully submerged, to avoid getting a case of the swirlies.   

I read somewhere that chlorine bleach is not useful for these projects because it makes plastics more brittle.  So word to the wise, leave the bleach for the laundry and use peroxide on phones. 
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: Doug Rose on March 28, 2011, 12:32:28 PM
I think Briny has a sun lamp and not a heat lamp. A Sun lamp mimics the sun and was used by people with skin conditions that needed sun everyday of the year. You can definitely get a tan under these guys. I had a heat lamp in another home in the the bath to warm it up. I think he has the proper lamp....Doug
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: Dan/Panther on March 28, 2011, 01:22:01 PM
I would give the sun lamp a try. It may work better than anything.

D/P
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: Brinybay on March 28, 2011, 03:31:42 PM
Here's what it says on the bulb itself.  Also a picture of the phone I'm going to try it on, a white (yellowed) AE 80.  I also have a couple of white WE 500s.  One is not so bad, it cleaned up fairly well, the other I have labeled as "cream" color so it will be next.
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: Dan on March 28, 2011, 08:05:55 PM
Tape off the white cradle area and use it as a guide. You will get spectacular results , especially with 40% :)
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: Ed D on March 28, 2011, 10:16:47 PM
Briny,

I may be wrong, but that lamp looks to be an infrared heat lamp.  The box says Sun Lamp, but the bulb is red, and also says Infrared.  Be careful you don't cook the phone!

Ed
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: Dan on March 28, 2011, 10:28:01 PM
40% would work well under a simple 100 watt incandescent lamp. It would work in ambient light even.
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: Brinybay on April 05, 2011, 02:13:47 AM
I decided to use a regular 100w light bulb, since there was some doubt about the lamp.  Plus it was easier to judge the distance to use.  I'm not sure I made the mix right though.  I followed Dan's instructions to a T, except that it took 5 zaps at 15 seconds each to get it to thicken.  But when I added the Oxiclean, it didn't froth or bubble like Dan's example and wasn't as liquidy, but the mixture seamed to be more "foamy" and still the consistency of shave cream.  Also conspicuous by it's absence is any odor, it's entirely odorless.

Anyway, it's cookin'.  I'll find out in the morning if it worked.
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: Brinybay on April 05, 2011, 04:23:13 PM
20% didn't really do that much to it. 
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment
Post by: Brinybay on April 05, 2011, 05:08:07 PM
Round 2.  I used straight 40% this time, and since the volume in Dan's recipe makes enough to cover two phones, I started treatment on the AE80 I was wanting to treat anyway.  I also lowered the light about 6-8".  Stay tuned.
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: Dan on April 05, 2011, 09:56:14 PM
It will crust up and you'll have to rinse and wipe it off in the morning. I am sure you will be happy!
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment
Post by: Brinybay on April 05, 2011, 11:49:47 PM
It will crust up and you'll have to rinse and wipe it off in the morning. I am sure you will be happy!

Yeah, I noticed that.  You have to reconstitute it to clean it off if it drys up.  Also found out the switch hook plungers can be removed by bending the tabs back just far enough for the plungers to clear.  I found that out when I was cleaning it off and noticed one was missing.  Fortunately I was cleaning it over the kitchen sink, and my hand is small enough to reach down into the garbage disposal and retrieve it.

7 hours was long enough, it worked some.  I'm noticing some of the "blotching" others mentioned though.  It'll take one or two more treatments.  I don't know which is more of a hassle, several treatments this way or just sanding the darn thing.  I was able to pick up a detail sander today that somebody else here mentioned they use.
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment
Post by: Brinybay on April 06, 2011, 12:07:00 AM
The AE 80 after 1 treatment at 40%.  Digital cameras being what the way they are, it's not as white as it appears.  Some blotching also.
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: AE_Collector on April 06, 2011, 12:10:59 AM
Gee Briny, I was going to say....You bleached your white 80 into a white 80E! Nice going!!

Terry
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment
Post by: Brinybay on April 06, 2011, 12:58:42 AM
Round 3 for the 80e and round 2 for the 80 is in the oven (so to speak).  Only thing different this time is I whipped the mixture a little more to get the Oxiclean mixed to dissolve better, (I'm only using a fork) and in the process it seemed to produce more mixture (more foamy, more like shave cream).  I also put the parts in two separate 2 gallon ziploc bags to try to keep them from drying out.  We'll see in the morning how they turn out.
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: GG on April 06, 2011, 05:26:50 AM


I'm going to guess the blotching is due to imperfect mixing by hand, compared to high-shear mixing in the blender.  Mixtures of any type that are mixed by hand may look visually OK but not be chemically uniform.  The non-uniformity could lead to variations in the chemical reaction.  Also non-uniformity in applying the compound to the surfaces may lead to variations as well, so doing it during the day when one can re-apply the compound a number of times may help. 

Possible improvement in the process (something I'm going to test when I get started on this):  there is bakery packaging in the supermarket bakeries, typically for cakes, consisting of a rectangular dark plastic base with a clear rectangular cover that snaps on.  I finished eating some goodies and noticed that the packaging is just about the right size for a phone housing, not including handset etc.  This may enable covering a housing in a manner that reduces evaporative drying of the retrobright mixture.  (Then do the handset etc. the next day.) 

Also the heat lamp may be drying out the compound prematurely, compared to a fluorescent lamp.  If we all keep track of what does & doesn't work, eventually we'll get this down to a convergent process.
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: Dan on April 06, 2011, 06:17:49 AM
This is ALWAYS better than sanding
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: Brinybay on April 06, 2011, 06:39:14 AM


I'm going to guess the blotching is due to imperfect mixing by hand, compared to high-shear mixing in the blender.  Mixtures of any type that are mixed by hand may look visually OK but not be chemically uniform.  The non-uniformity could lead to variations in the chemical reaction.  Also non-uniformity in applying the compound to the surfaces may lead to variations as well, so doing it during the day when one can re-apply the compound a number of times may help. 

Possible improvement in the process (something I'm going to test when I get started on this):  there is bakery packaging in the supermarket bakeries, typically for cakes, consisting of a rectangular dark plastic base with a clear rectangular cover that snaps on.  I finished eating some goodies and noticed that the packaging is just about the right size for a phone housing, not including handset etc.  This may enable covering a housing in a manner that reduces evaporative drying of the retrobright mixture.  (Then do the handset etc. the next day.) 

Also the heat lamp may be drying out the compound prematurely, compared to a fluorescent lamp.  If we all keep track of what does & doesn't work, eventually we'll get this down to a convergent process.

I'm not using the sun lamp, it's just a regular 100w bulb.  Can't use the blender because I use that to mix food stuffs in on a daily basis, can't be mixing toxics in it.
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: Brinybay on April 06, 2011, 06:39:50 AM
This is ALWAYS better than sanding

I'm trying hard to prove you're right!
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: Dan on April 06, 2011, 05:36:46 PM
Reasons white and Ivory work better with peroxide over sanding

1. Thickness of the shell remains the same.

2. Post whitening only requires a little application of Novus 2 and f 21 turtle wax spray.

3. Mix,  apply and leave it alone--your hands have no fatigue

4. The lettering  (''western electric, bell systems'') details on the handset and housing can also be whitened and stay sharp and clear, something that can't be accomplished with sanding.
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: Brinybay on April 12, 2011, 03:16:01 AM
Well here's the AE 80e after 4 treatments.  I tested it, if fully functions except that it has a frequency ringer.  I never used that "sun lamp".  When I looked a little closer, that's not the bulb that the package says.  The package says "Westinghouse", but that bulb is a Penetray infra red lamp.

Anyway, I think this is as far as I'll go with it as far as bleaching the outside.  I haven't done anything with the handset cord, not sure if retro-bright will work with vinyl.  There is also a repair needed to the cover.  There's a crudely drilled hole in the side.  Not sure what for, maybe it was a lamp at one time?  It would make good practice for the resin and hardener I have.  Just need to get some white pigment.

OR - I could offer this phone up for sale or trade as is.
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: bingster on April 12, 2011, 01:54:12 PM
You could go the easy way and fill the hole with one of these doo-dads.  You could even paint it white if you wanted:
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: LarryInMichigan on April 12, 2011, 03:44:43 PM
Briny,

Your results look great!  I have a badly discolored white AE80E which wouldn't mind looking like that.  The only success that I have had with bleaching was with a gray vinyl Ericsson Dialog cord which I soaked in Oxiclean all day in the sunshine (on one of the only sunny days here in Michigan).  The results were encouraging.  I suspect that your cord will bleach well.

For the hole, you might want to try something like Bondo.


Larry
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: Brinybay on April 12, 2011, 04:54:13 PM
You could go the easy way and fill the hole with one of these doo-dads.  You could even paint it white if you wanted:

If they fit, that may be the route I'll go.  Using the resin and hardener would mean some sanding involved.  Not that I mind a little, especially on a flat surface, just that it would probably expose an even whiter surface area around the hole. 
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: Brinybay on April 12, 2011, 04:56:31 PM
Briny,

Your results look great!  I have a badly discolored white AE80E which wouldn't mind looking like that.  The only success that I have had with bleaching was with a gray vinyl Ericsson Dialog cord which I soaked in Oxiclean all day in the sunshine (on one of the only sunny days here in Michigan).  The results were encouraging.  I suspect that your cord will bleach well.

For the hole, you might want to try something like Bondo.


Larry

I clean everything in a bath of Oxiclean before I touch them, but I don't leave them in the sun.  I'm thinking of using the retrobright mix, except leave out the corn starch, which just acts as a thickener, but follow the usual steps (under a light for 6 hrs).
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: LarryInMichigan on April 12, 2011, 05:17:42 PM
I just left the gray vinyl cord in a clear plastic container full of Oxiclean and water covered with plastic wrap on my driveway in the sun for the day.  I tried doing the same with a discolored light yellow GPO 746 shell, but with no success.


Larry
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: GG on April 13, 2011, 06:18:44 AM


Those "doodads" also come in black plastic and in white plastic.  The original surface is a rough texture but it can be sanded and then buffed to be perfectly smooth, at which point it blends into the appearance of the housing better than a metal "doodad" would. 
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: Dan on April 13, 2011, 05:25:51 PM
Great results Briny. The vinyl worked a little bit for me at 40% , but I switched the cord eventually.
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: Brinybay on April 27, 2011, 04:10:10 AM
Here's the before/after of the AE 80.  It's still a shade darker than the original white, but after 4 treatments, this is as far as I want to go.
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: Brinybay on April 27, 2011, 04:16:35 AM


Those "doodads" also come in black plastic and in white plastic.  The original surface is a rough texture but it can be sanded and then buffed to be perfectly smooth, at which point it blends into the appearance of the housing better than a metal "doodad" would.  

They're not as easy to find as one would think, either.  Holmes Depot didn't have them, but I found something that worked at Ace Hardware.  The hole was 1/2", but the smallest white plug they had was 5/8", so I just made the hole a little bigger.  Digging through my stash of boxed up phones, I realized I have 3 white AE 80s, so I'll probably take this one to the show and see if I can sell it.
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: GG on April 27, 2011, 08:53:08 AM

Finding anything at Home Despot is difficult-to-impossible; I get those at OSH (Orchard Supply Hardware), where they are easy to find. 

That looks like a good repair there.  Not as good as if it never had a hole, but certainly acceptable for everyday use.

Your almost-yellow 80 came out great! 

Has anyone done the experiment to find out if these retrobright treatments depend on light or on heat to catalyze the reaction?   (NOTE: IF it turns out to be heat that does the trick, use a heat lamp at a reasonable distance, do not put in the oven unless someone with chem expertise provides detailed assurances that this will not be a fire/explosion hazard!)
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: Dan on April 27, 2011, 10:44:20 PM
I have done them both with a light (60 watt) or heat source and without and the light improves the process considerably.
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: GLadstone on November 06, 2017, 02:58:20 AM
Hi Everyone,

As I was researching the various "cleaning" methods shared on this forum, I came across this topic and see that Dan's original photos (on page one (http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=1146.msg14349#msg14349)) are hosted at Photobucket and are not currently view-able.

I took this as an opportunity to test the newer web browser extensions (for Firefox (https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/photobucket-fixer/) & Chrome (https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/photobucket-fixer/ogipgokcopooepeipngiikdkpmcpkaon)) that are designed to show the original Photobucket images (instead of the 3rd party hosting image).

---

Edit:
Direct links to Browser Extensions:

Firefox:
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/photobucket-fixer/ (https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/photobucket-fixer/)

Chrome:
https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/photobucket-fixer/ogipgokcopooepeipngiikdkpmcpkaon (https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/photobucket-fixer/ogipgokcopooepeipngiikdkpmcpkaon)

End Edit.

---

Wow! What a difference!
Since this is a pinned topic and I'm not sure how long this extension will continue to work, I took a screen shot of the first page and cropped it into four images (adjusting max size to 2000 pixels on the longest side as needed).

Test attachments below:

Image 1
1st message: http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=1146.msg14349#msg14349 (http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=1146.msg14349#msg14349)

Image 2
Reply #1: http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=1146.msg14362#msg14362 (http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=1146.msg14362#msg14362)

Image 3
Reply #3: http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=1146.msg14365#msg14365 (http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=1146.msg14365#msg14365)

Image 4
Reply #13: http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=1146.msg14439#msg14439 (http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=1146.msg14439#msg14439)


Hopefully this will allow everyone to continue to benefit from the information shared in this topic.

Take care,
GLadstone
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: GLadstone on November 06, 2017, 03:26:21 AM
Hi Everyone,

This seems to be working, so a few more:

From page 2:
Attachment 1
Reply #24: http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=1146.msg14516#msg14516 (http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=1146.msg14516#msg14516)

Attachment 2
Reply #25: http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=1146.msg14517#msg14517 (http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=1146.msg14517#msg14517)

From page 3:
Attachment 3
Reply #34: http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=1146.msg14550#msg14550 (http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=1146.msg14550#msg14550)

Take care,
GLadstone
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: TelePlay on November 06, 2017, 03:55:59 AM
Yes, the Firefox extension I added works fine. The photobucket ranson image displays for a second or two and then displays as the image posted to photobucket.

These are the extensions provided by GLadstone:

==================================
For your ease of reference:

Firefox:
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/photobucket-fixer/ (https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/photobucket-fixer/)

Chrome:
https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/photobucket-fixer/ogipgokcopooepeipngiikdkpmcpkaon (https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/photobucket-fixer/ogipgokcopooepeipngiikdkpmcpkaon)

==================================


I uploaded the individual image for the first page of Dan's topic so the images show either as the photobucket ransom image within the text or if you have the extension, the real photo, and then the photos show as permanent attachments to the topic reply. That first of 7 pages total is here:

     http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=1146.msg14439#msg14439

It's going to take a long time and a lot of work to undo the damage done by posting all of those images externally linked to Photobucket.

If you are not using Firefox or Chrome, you will just see the photobucket ransom image. If you are using Firefox or Chrome, the extensions linked above are a fix for the external image ailment.
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: AE_Collector on November 06, 2017, 11:07:37 AM
If this is a work around is it not likely that photo bucket will change something to put an end to the work around? I don’t really understand how all this works, I only understand their purpose in doing it.

In any event, this is an opportunity to fix some messed up topics but we need to identify the most in need topics to update.

Thanks GLadstone

Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: GLadstone on November 06, 2017, 10:37:00 PM
Hi AE_Collector,

If this is a work around is it not likely that photo bucket will change something to put an end to the work around? I don’t really understand how all this works, I only understand their purpose in doing it.

For more information about these Firefox and Chrome "Photobucket Fixer" extensions, the developer, Jesse Evers, shared the code on GitHub here:
https://github.com/TheAtomicGoose/pbfix (https://github.com/TheAtomicGoose/pbfix)

And, posted about it on another forum here:
http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/photobucket-fixer-see-all-photobucket-images-again.1256340/ (http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/photobucket-fixer-see-all-photobucket-images-again.1256340/)

A quick internet search for "photobucket fixer" shows that a number of other forums are using these extensions to retrieve the "ransomed" images at Photobucket while they can / this extension works.

An example:
http://www.onesixthwarriors.com/forum/sixth-scale-action-figure-news-reviews-and-discussion-/857278-photobucket-fixer-firefox-google-chrome.html (http://www.onesixthwarriors.com/forum/sixth-scale-action-figure-news-reviews-and-discussion-/857278-photobucket-fixer-firefox-google-chrome.html)

In any event, this is an opportunity to fix some messed up topics but we need to identify the most in need topics to update.

Thanks GLadstone

Indeed!
Please let us know how you would prefer we share this information with you as we come across effected topics (i.e., post the links to a specific topic and/or send a PM).

Take care,
GLadstone
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: AE_Collector on November 07, 2017, 10:02:05 AM
Okay, I have created this topic in “Forum News”.

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=19200.0

Provide links to topics in need of repair due to the Photobucket Ransom. We will see if we can get some of this stuff fixed while we can.

Terry
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: TelePlay on November 07, 2017, 10:10:04 AM
Okay, I have created this topic in “Forum News”.

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=19200.0

Provide links to topics in need of repair due to the Photobucket Ransom. We will see if we can get some of this stuff fixed while we can.

Terry

Good idea. Here is one of those which I "fixed" last night. If you do not have the extension, you will see the ransomeware image for each externally linked images and then the image attached with a file name numbered to match its position in the text.

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=136.0

If you have the extension, you will see the image twice, once in the text body and once attached.
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: markosjal on June 05, 2018, 12:39:44 PM
I have a soft plastic seafoam green (turquoise)

Is this process recommended for that?

Mark
Title: Re: Peroxide Treatment Detailed Instructions
Post by: HarrySmith on June 05, 2018, 01:18:38 PM
I do not recall if anyone has tried a soft plastic phone. There are other topics on here about using peroxide hair product without the Retrobright mixing. I have done a few white & beige phones that way with great results. I have not tried a color phone. I got the hair product at Sally's Beauty Supply, I used a 40 Volume solution. I am sure someone must have tried a soft plastic phone, search the other topics on the hair product it should be in there.

>>EDIT<<
I just saw in another thread where a member did a green phone. He did not say if it was soft plastic or not but he did warn the 40 Volume was too strong, recommended 20 Volume. Salon Care is the name of the product.


Also from:  http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=17038.msg175932#msg175932

Quote
The Clairol Pure White Developer 30 Volume has a shelf life of 3 years. Volume refers to the percentage of peroxide in the creme solution. You find 20, 30 and 40 volume developers and they are increasing concentrations of peroxide. 20vol is 6% peroxide, 30 vol is 9% peroxide and 40 vol is 12%. This comes from a hair salon site. They explain it with respect to lightening hair, or in other words, the Volume number to them describes how many 'levels' of lightening that will be achieved with the developer:  20vol is around 2 levels of lightness; 30vol is around 3-4 levels of lightness; and 40vol is around 6 levels of lightness.