Classic Rotary Phones Forum

Telephone Talk => Auction Talk => Topic started by: TelePlay on July 11, 2015, 11:51:42 AM

Title: Green 1955 Soft Plastic 500
Post by: TelePlay on July 11, 2015, 11:51:42 AM
This looks strange to me, a black metal finger wheel on a soft plastic colored phone. Was that finger wheel one of the options? If not, how did they do this? Swap out the bezel?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-WESTERN-ELECTRIC-C-D-500-ROTARY-DESK-PHONE-TELEPHONE-Avocado-Green-/391197613903

Title: Re: Green 1955 Soft Plastic 500
Post by: WEBellSystemChristian on July 11, 2015, 12:45:17 PM
That fingerwheel wouldn't have been original to a 1955 Green. My guess is that the original open-center was smashed, and the installer that was sent out to repair it replaced the fingerwheel with a black alluminum one; the only kind he might have had on his truck at the time.

It looks like a really nice phone! The cord needs some work, but the plastics look like they're in great shape!
Title: Re: Green 1955 Soft Plastic 500
Post by: jsowers on July 11, 2015, 01:15:43 PM
This looks strange to me, a black metal finger wheel on a soft plastic colored phone. Was that finger wheel one of the options? If not, how did they do this? Swap out the bezel?

No bezel swap necessary. Just remove the metal fingerwheel and add a spider and a clear fingerwheel in its place, reusing the nut and washer. Moss green never had a black dial bezel, unless it was a two-tone, and that also had black cords and handset, which this one doesn't have. And yes, this one looks strange, but add a spider, a clear fingerwheel and decent dark gray cords and it should be whole again.
Title: Re: Green 1955 Soft Plastic 500
Post by: andre_janew on July 11, 2015, 03:34:36 PM
Another thing you could do is paint the fingerwheel to match the phone.
Title: Re: Green 1955 Soft Plastic 500
Post by: Doug Rose on July 11, 2015, 08:50:45 PM
Andre....have you seen many metal finger wheels painted to match the  color of the phone on a 500 set......... that were not black??
Title: Re: Green 1955 Soft Plastic 500
Post by: andre_janew on July 12, 2015, 01:14:11 PM
No, I haven't.  I just think it would be nice to see a color phone with a metal fingerwheel painted to match the color of the phone.  It would also represent something that Western Electric could've done, but didn't do.
Title: Re: Green 1955 Soft Plastic 500
Post by: poplar1 on July 12, 2015, 01:48:27 PM
Actually, Western Electric did paint finger wheels (on 4H dials, and possibly on 2H) to match all color phones until 1937. At that point (4J dial and 5J dial), they changed to stainless steel (unpainted), except for the metallic colors (oxidized silver, statuary bronze, medium or dark gold), which retained the matching finger wheels. Then, in 1941, some colors got clear Lucite finger wheels, except for the metallic colors.

So 302s -- except for metallic colors and black -- and 500s -- except for black -- never had matching finger wheels.
Title: Re: Green 1955 Soft Plastic 500
Post by: Doug Rose on July 12, 2015, 01:59:42 PM
David....agreed. But WE never did on a 500 set.....Doug
Title: Re: Green 1955 Soft Plastic 500
Post by: unbeldi on July 12, 2015, 02:42:06 PM
Well, never say never.  There is good evidence (cf. pics) that indicates that even in the 1950s some 5J finger wheels were painted in the shops.

These pics show a 5J—50 dial, clearly marked as such with an ivory-painted FW.  Note, that this is the color of the 500-series ivory–50, not the traditional ivory–4 of the 200s and 300s.

The FW is from 1951, but WECo could hardly have painted anything in ivory–50 until ca. 1954.  So, this perhaps came from either a Continental 202, one of those rare 302s made from CAB plastic, or simply a refurbishment of

It appears, the dial was originally painted white on the case, so was indeed a true 5J. It received an ivory coat on top of that, when it was marked —50.
Title: Re: Green 1955 Soft Plastic 500
Post by: poplar1 on July 12, 2015, 03:42:36 PM
Well, never say never.  There is good evidence (cf. pics) that indicates that even in the 1950s some 5J finger wheels were painted in the shops.

These pics show a 5J—50 dial, clearly marked as such with an ivory-painted FW.  Note, that this is the color of the 500-series ivory–50, not the traditional ivory–4 of the 200s and 300s.

The FW is from 1951, but WECo could hardly have painted anything in ivory–50 until ca. 1954.  So, this perhaps came from either a Continental 202, one of those rare 302s made from CAB plastic, or simply a refurbishment of

It appears, the dial was originally painted white on the case, so was indeed a true 5J. It received an ivory coat on top of that, when it was marked —50.

This "5JB-50" dial appears to be the exception rather than the rule, and, as you pointed out, modified by the WE distributing house/repair shop rather than the factory.  4J, 5J and 6D dials, as originally manufactured, did not have a color code suffix, since all had white cases, and either stainless steel (unpainted) finger wheels, or, later, clear plastic ones. The dials for metallic color phones continued to have H assembly codes, such as 5HB-8 (oxidized silver case and finger wheel). Most Continentals had 5J, 6D or 4J dials with clear finger wheels, though many green ones had unpainted metal finger wheels (brushed aluminum).
Title: Re: Green 1955 Soft Plastic 500
Post by: unbeldi on July 12, 2015, 03:48:15 PM
Well, never say never.  There is good evidence (cf. pics) that indicates that even in the 1950s some 5J finger wheels were painted in the shops.

These pics show a 5J—50 dial, clearly marked as such with an ivory-painted FW.  Note, that this is the color of the 500-series ivory–50, not the traditional ivory–4 of the 200s and 300s.

The FW is from 1951, but WECo could hardly have painted anything in ivory–50 until ca. 1954.  So, this perhaps came from either a Continental 202, one of those rare 302s made from CAB plastic, or simply a refurbishment of

It appears, the dial was originally painted white on the case, so was indeed a true 5J. It received an ivory coat on top of that, when it was marked —50.

This "5JB-50" dial appears to be the exception rather than the rule, and, as you pointed out, modified by the WE distributing house/repair shop rather than the factory.  4J, 5J and 6D dials, as originally manufactured, did not have a color code suffix, since all had white cases, and either stainless steel (unpainted) finger wheels, or, later, clear plastic ones. The dials for metallic color phones continued to have H assembly codes, such as 5HB-8 (oxidized silver case and finger wheel). Most Continentals had 5J, 6D or 4J dials with clear finger wheels, though many green ones had unpainted metal finger wheels (brushed aluminum).

The card catalog does indeed indicate that, both, 4H and 5H dials, did have dash codes for all the colors offered in the late 30s.  However, what the exact purpose of this was is not preserved, apparently, and it appears to have been abandoned.  These types were replaced by the J-type dials, 4J and 5J.

4H[A,B,D,E]—[4,5,6,7,8,11,12,16,17,18,19,20,21]  ==> some replaced by 5H—xx, or 4J
5H[A,B,D,E]—[4,6,7,8,11,12,16,17,18,19,20,21]  ==> 5J

Title: Re: Green 1955 Soft Plastic 500
Post by: poplar1 on July 12, 2015, 04:13:28 PM
That is correct. The 4H and 5H dials had a color code to indicate the color of the dial case and finger wheel, which matched the phone. But J dials always had white cases, as originally manufactured, and unpainted or clear plastic finger wheels; so no need for a color code suffix.

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=10775.msg114907#msg114907
Title: Re: Green 1955 Soft Plastic 500
Post by: andre_janew on July 12, 2015, 04:45:03 PM
On second thought, maybe it would be best to strip all the black paint off and just go for the brushed aluminum look!  I just get these weird off-the-wall ideas sometimes that aren't received well.  I'm sorry if I offended anyone with my crazy notions.
Title: Re: Green 1955 Soft Plastic 500
Post by: TelePlay on July 18, 2015, 07:39:09 PM
Sold for only $59.88 plus $13 shipping by way of only two bids.

A last second snipe of $58.88 wasn't enough to top the first high and winning bid placed by 1***7 ( 618 ) who took the phone home.
Title: Re: Green 1955 Soft Plastic 500
Post by: andre_janew on July 19, 2015, 05:06:20 PM
He may be at Benjamin Moore getting some green paint for that fingerwheel.  It is a possibility.
Title: Re: Green 1955 Soft Plastic 500
Post by: Doug Rose on July 19, 2015, 07:38:31 PM
Another possibility....getting an open face clear finger wheel at Benjamin Moore......hopefully they can match.
Title: Re: Green 1955 Soft Plastic 500
Post by: andre_janew on July 21, 2015, 06:06:16 PM
I think it just begs to be customized either with a metal fingerwheel painted to match or say a brushed aluminum one.   Of course, that is just my opinion which I highly respect!
Title: Re: Green 1955 Soft Plastic 500
Post by: WesternElectricBen on July 21, 2015, 06:15:06 PM
I think it just begs to be customized either with a metal fingerwheel painted to match or say a brushed aluminum one.   Of course, that is just my opinion which I highly respect!

It begs to me that it wants an original open center finger wheel.

Ben
Title: Re: Green 1955 Soft Plastic 500
Post by: Doug Rose on July 22, 2015, 05:40:56 AM
I think it just begs to be customized either with a metal fingerwheel painted to match or say a brushed aluminum one.   Of course, that is just my opinion which I highly respect!
Andre...I have seen the light, I highly respect your opinion as well. I agree...you should paint the phone black to match the finger wheel. I can't wait for your next post....Doug
Title: Re: Green 1955 Soft Plastic 500
Post by: Ktownphoneco on July 22, 2015, 09:51:23 AM
FYI -  Krylon Industrial U.S.A., produces an off the shelf paint called "Krylon ColorMaster", which is produced in many colors, one of which is a close match to the Western / Northern color code "green-51".    While it's not what I'd call "bang on", it is a close match.    The Krylon color is called "Hosta Leaf - Product code 453541".     
Krylon is sold by a number of retailers, both is Canada and the U.S.A. ...  i.e., Ace Hardware, Sears, Walmart, Sherwin-Williams, Canadian Tire to name a few.
Krylon web page link :  http://bit.ly/1E8LcT8
I painted a 211 several years ago with Krylon "Hosta Leaf" green, and a picture of it is attached.     The set has a Western Electric (Bell System) "G" series handset in "green-51" on it.     The actual color appears to be a closer match when viewed with the human eye, than it does in the digital photo.     It's not a big investment to try a can either, at around $4.49 USD at Ace Hardware, or $5.79 Canadian at Canadian Tire.
Enjoy the day.

Jeff Lamb

 
 
Title: Re: Green 1955 Soft Plastic 500
Post by: TelePlay on July 22, 2015, 08:10:07 PM
I think it just begs to be customized either with a metal fingerwheel painted to match or say a brushed aluminum one.   Of course, that is just my opinion which I highly respect!
Andre...I have seen the light, I highly respect your opinion as well. I agree...you should paint the phone black to match the finger wheel. I can't wait for your next post....Doug

Doug,

That would work but doesn't it then just become another dime a dozen black 500?
Title: Re: Green 1955 Soft Plastic 500
Post by: unbeldi on July 22, 2015, 08:51:35 PM
Well, I think I can trade you the shell of this black painted green 500 set.
I used the almost pristine 1955 base for another project that needed it, and I still have the shell left over somewhere.

If you want color... with a match to black, this will do.

On the other hand... you can turn yours into a parts phone as well by waiting long enough.

Title: Re: Green 1955 Soft Plastic 500
Post by: Doug Rose on July 23, 2015, 05:31:26 AM
I think it just begs to be customized either with a metal fingerwheel painted to match or say a brushed aluminum one.   Of course, that is just my opinion which I highly respect!
Andre...I have seen the light, I highly respect your opinion as well. I agree...you should paint the phone black to match the finger wheel. I can't wait for your next post....Doug

Doug,

That would work but doesn't it then just become another dime a dozen black 500?

Yes it does...tongue was planted firmly in cheek. This was a most bizarre string.
Title: Re: Green 1955 Soft Plastic 500
Post by: andre_janew on July 23, 2015, 07:39:43 PM
I never said the phone should be painted black.  What I meant was that the fingerwheel should be painted to match the phone instead of making it another run of the mill color phone with a clear fingerwheel.  A green phone with a metal fingerwheel painted green would be different from  all the other green phones with the clear plastic fingerwheel.  That was what I had in mind!
Title: Re: Green 1955 Soft Plastic 500
Post by: Doug Rose on July 24, 2015, 06:49:22 PM
When I first joined the Forum in 2009, I was an established collector. I did not collect 500 sets. I still don't.  I do
dabble in eBay, I know that surprises all of you.

I thought all 500 sets were all created equal.  I was WRONG!

500 sets were not created equal......this was proven to me by many members on the Forum. I was educated.  I asked questions
and listened to the answers I was given.

The the early color soft plastic sets from the mid 50's were very desirable. I was told that grey cords on a early color set
was very desirable. I thought they were a mistake an after market add whenever I saw them. That was my opinion!  I passed
them by. My opinion was incorrect!  It cost me $$ for my lack of knowledge.

All early sets had a clear,  plastic,  opened face finger wheel.

I listened to other peoples opinions. Opinions that turned out to be fact.

Since then I have seen early 500 sets go for more than there 302 counter parts on eBay.

Moral of my story is:

You have to listen to learn......or you can just repeat your mistakes.

I will now step down from my soapbox.....Doug
Title: Re: Green 1955 Soft Plastic 500
Post by: TelePlay on July 24, 2015, 07:05:48 PM
Moral of my story is:

You have to listen to learn......or you can just repeat your mistakes.

I will now step down from my soapbox.....Doug

Well said, Doug, and worthy of the CRPF Traveling Soap Box Trophy . . . . 
Title: Re: Green 1955 Soft Plastic 500
Post by: Doug Rose on July 24, 2015, 09:27:34 PM
thanks John....I am humbled by this award!!...Doug