Classic Rotary Phones Forum

Telephone Talk => Auction Talk => Topic started by: Pourme on November 21, 2016, 08:30:12 AM

Title: Kellogg Red Bar 1000
Post by: Pourme on November 21, 2016, 08:30:12 AM
Last night I was getting ready to go to bed and decided to check EBAY one more time. Being relatively new to this hobby, one of the phones on my list is a Kellogg Red Bar phone. Just hours earlier I didn't see this. It looks to be a metal body Kellogg 1000 marked "HB4". At a BIN of $9.99 I jumped! Are these like 302's in that metal cases were mostly pre war and the Bakelite bodies post war?

I still don't know much about these but I am pleased to have one on the way.

Anybody have a number card holder to sell? I would like to have one of those with that really cool Kellogg logo on it!

I am in the process of reading what I can find on the forum about this find...

http://tinyurl.com/hsokzpn

Benny

Edit:
  I'm finding a lot of my questions answered in earlier posts like this one

http://tinyurl.com/zw4jo7j
Title: Re: Kellogg Red Bar 1000
Post by: poplar1 on November 21, 2016, 09:22:48 AM
I believe the K1000 was introduced after the war (1947?). Per Roger Conklin, the metal housings were available to customers who insisted on them (with good reason, since the Kellite housings are so brittle).

An Automatic Electric dial escutcheon will work.
Title: Re: Kellogg Red Bar 1000
Post by: LarryInMichigan on November 21, 2016, 10:15:07 AM
$9.99 for a metal Kellogg 1000 series is a very good price.  That phone may have a frequency ringer in it.  Steve Hilsz might have a SL ringer.  You can touch up the paint around the cradle with a black paint marker.  I like the Testors brand.  Whatever you do, DON'T drop the phone on your foot!

Larry
Title: Re: Kellogg Red Bar 1000
Post by: Pourme on November 21, 2016, 10:36:47 AM
$9.99 for a metal Kellogg 1000 series is a very good price.  That phone may have a frequency ringer in it.  Steve Hilsz might have a SL ringer.  You can touch up the paint around the cradle with a black paint marker.  I like the Testors brand.  Whatever you do, DON'T drop the phone on your foot!

Larry

Ha!...Thanks for the tip(s) I will keep a firm grip on it!

in what is titled KELLOGG MASTERPHONES, 1947 It lists HB4 as a 66 cycle Harmonic ringer.

Does that mean it won't ring on my 616?

Thanks!

Benny
Title: Re: Kellogg Red Bar 1000
Post by: LarryInMichigan on November 21, 2016, 11:31:57 AM
in what is titled KELLOGG MASTERPHONES, 1947 It lists HB4 as a 66 cycle Harmonic ringer.
Does that mean it won't ring on my 616?

I don't have a 616, but I thought that it could be programmed to ring at various frequencies.  If the phone has a 66cy ringer, it will not ring when supplied with a standard 20cy ringing signal.

One thing to keep in mind is that the transmitters in these Kellogg handsets are really lousy and often provide poor sound quality and sometimes loud static as well.  I have alot of Kellogg phones around here, but I do not use them because people complain about how my voice sounds when using them.


Larry
Title: Re: Kellogg Red Bar 1000
Post by: Jim S. on November 21, 2016, 11:34:13 AM
I have always liked the red bar phones. At my first telephone show (1989) I bought a redbar w/o handset for$5.00 and a handset w/cord for $3.00.
 Some misc. comments about red bars.
The red bar phone has a wiring plug to connect shell components to the base. The same base is used for the wall phone. There are at least 2 different "Bars" for the red bar telephone, there is also a "clear" bar that shows up on some black phones and the colored models.

JMO,
Jim S.

Nice set at a great price. You should put it in Find of the month.
Title: Re: Kellogg Red Bar 1000
Post by: unbeldi on November 21, 2016, 12:45:55 PM
I don't have a 616, but I thought that it could be programmed to ring at various frequencies.  If the phone has a 66cy ringer, it will not ring when supplied with a standard 20cy ringing signal.

Larry


The Panasonic PBXs, 616 or 308, have no settings for ringing frequency.
Actually I have never read about any PBX with that capability, as they are not commonly used to provide party line service.
Some may ring at a slightly different frequency, 25 Hz, or even 30 Hz as is well known from key systems.
However, PABX systems did exist that used 50 Hz (in Europe) and 60 Hz (in N.A.) because they simply used utility line voltage for ringing.

Oddly, many VoIP adapters can be configured for any ringing frequency.  Usually though, one has to access them by their command line interface. A few have the option in the web configuration.  However, the draw back is that most VoIP adapters do not permit pulse dialing.





Title: Re: Kellogg Red Bar 1000
Post by: Pourme on November 21, 2016, 12:50:19 PM
Thanks for the response

It appears I will be on the hunt for a dial card holder and a ringer!

If we didn't have a want list, what fun would this be?
Title: Re: Kellogg Red Bar 1000
Post by: LarryInMichigan on November 21, 2016, 01:34:49 PM
Wait until you have the phone.  It is possible that the ringer was replaced int the past.  If you do need one, and nobody here has a spare, I would contact Steve Hilsz.  I think that I bought one from him several years ago.

Larry
Title: Re: Kellogg Red Bar 1000
Post by: Pourme on November 21, 2016, 01:53:11 PM
Will do, Larry!
Title: Re: Kellogg Red Bar 1000
Post by: HarrySmith on November 21, 2016, 09:09:25 PM
The dial appears to be AE so a number card holder should be easy to find. A picture of the inside would tell for sure.
Title: Re: Kellogg Red Bar 1000
Post by: LarryInMichigan on November 21, 2016, 09:36:54 PM
Even if the dial is a Kellogg copy of the AE, an AE dial center would fit.

Larry
Title: Re: Kellogg Red Bar 1000
Post by: Pourme on November 21, 2016, 10:04:52 PM
Thanks guys...I will definitely post pics next week when it arrives!

Thanks!
Title: Re: Kellogg Red Bar 1000
Post by: Pourme on November 26, 2016, 08:35:24 AM
USPS dropped it on my door step before I got up this morning!

Good news! My $9.95+ shipping, metal Red Bar rings!

Someone taped the bells up to soften the ring, I freed the gongs and widened the space and let 'em RING!

The dial doesn't want to return, I included pic so someone can tell me what type it is.

Both cords appear to be original,

My 1st Red Bar and I am thrilled!

Title: Re: Kellogg Red Bar 1000
Post by: HarrySmith on November 26, 2016, 09:00:44 AM
Not surprising the dial does not work, probably one of the dirtiest I have seen! It appears to be an AE dial. I would send it to Steve Hilsz for cleaning & calibration. He might have a dial card retainer for it also.
Title: Re: Kellogg Red Bar 1000
Post by: poplar1 on November 26, 2016, 09:09:49 AM
Dial is marked 15-G so it's a Kellogg. Ringer is frequency selective but probably 16~ (Synchromonic  --
HB-5) or 16 2/3~ (Harmonic -- HA-4).
Title: Re: Kellogg Red Bar 1000
Post by: Ktownphoneco on November 26, 2016, 09:31:18 AM
Benny  ....   Nice set !   The dial appears to have been made by Kellogg under license from Automatic Electric I believe.   Without seeing the inner workings under the porcelain number plate, I'm assuming it replicates the A.E. type 24 dial.     It has the equivalent of A.E.'s type AK25 spring stack.    They are a nice set to restore.    If you need a dial number card assembly, and a Kellogg number card reproduction, let me know.     Attached is a picture of my red bar with the company logo on the transmitter ring re-painted, along with the hook switch plunger.

Jeff Lamb
Title: Re: Kellogg Red Bar 1000
Post by: unbeldi on November 26, 2016, 09:50:00 AM

Someone taped the bells up to soften the ring, I freed the gongs and widened the space and let 'em RING!


If you take out the ringer by removing the two screws in the mounting wings. you should find its frequency designation on the yoke end, stamped in ink. It might be possible to see without removing it though, I can't remember.  In any case, here are examples of synchromonic ringer designation on the No. 124 ringer, which is what you have.

It is probably one of  16 Hz (HB-5), 16 2/3 Hz (HA-4), 20 Hz (HC-1), or 25 Hz (HA-5) type of the size of the clapper weight.  Most of these might at least ring with some intensity on a 20 Hz line.  The last one (25 Hz) might be very weak.  I don't think I have an HA-5 ringer to see whether it has a shortened clapper weight or not.

One of the ringers in the picture is the original ringer installed in your phone, HB-4.
Title: Re: Kellogg Red Bar 1000
Post by: Pourme on November 26, 2016, 10:35:06 AM
If you take out the ringer by removing the two screws in the mounting wings. you should find its frequency designation on the yoke end, stamped in ink. It might be possible to see without removing it though, I can't remember.  In any case, here are examples of synchromonic ringer designation on the No. 124 ringer, which is what you have.

It is probably one of  16 Hz (HB-5), 16 2/3 Hz (HA-4), 20 Hz (HC-1), or 25 Hz (HA-5) type of the size of the clapper weight.  Most of these might at least ring with some intensity on a 20 Hz line.  The last one (25 Hz) might be very week.  I don't think I have an HA-5 ringer to see whether it has a shortened clapper weight or not.

One of the ringers in the picture is the original ringer installed in your phone, HB-4.

Here is what I found...
Title: Re: Kellogg Red Bar 1000
Post by: Pourme on November 26, 2016, 10:37:14 AM
Benny  ....   Nice set !   The dial appears to have been made by Kellogg under license from Automatic Electric I believe.   Without seeing the inner workings under the porcelain number plate, I'm assuming it replicates the A.E. type 24 dial.     It has the equivalent of A.E.'s type AK25 spring stack.    They are a nice set to restore.    If you need a dial number card assembly, and a Kellogg number card reproduction, let me know.     Attached is a picture of my red bar with the company logo on the transmitter ring re-painted, along with the hook switch plunger.

Jeff Lamb

Thanks for the info, Jeff.....That is a beautiful 1000 you have!...
I'll get deeper into the dial soon!
Title: Re: Kellogg Red Bar 1000
Post by: poplar1 on November 26, 2016, 10:46:41 AM
Here is what I found...

It makes sense that it is an HB-5, since the original ringer was also an HB- series (HB-4). It's possible that the ringer was changed by the original telephone company that owned it, possibly during a "regrouping" of parties, and that all the other ringers they used were also Synchromonic (30~, 42~, 54~, 66~ or 16~). Although that company may have also had some straight line ringers, it's not likely that they would have had any harmonic (33 1/3~, 50~, 66 2/3~, 16 2/3~, 25~) or decimonic (20~, 60~, 30~, 40~, 50~) ringers.
Title: Re: Kellogg Red Bar 1000
Post by: Doug Rose on November 27, 2016, 11:27:12 AM
Benny.....seeing your Kellogg 1000 Red Bar reminded me I had one in my to do pile. It was a mess covered in paint (no before pics sorry, I remeber afterwards) and the cords were bad. Also the handset screws were missing. They are not the same size as WEs!!  I just finished it before the grandkids arrive. I love the great deco look of the Red bars...Doug
Title: Re: Kellogg Red Bar 1000
Post by: LarryInMichigan on November 27, 2016, 12:05:52 PM
Here is what I found...

I would guess that the local telco replaced the ringer when the phone was moved from one subscriber to another.  At any rate, a 16cy ringer will probably work well enough on a standard 20Hz ringing signal that you won't have to worry about finding a new ringer.

Larry
Title: Re: Kellogg Red Bar 1000
Post by: Pourme on November 27, 2016, 01:51:46 PM
Doug, yours is a Kelite version, absent all the chipped paint and scratches that mark mine. It also don't look to have cracks and chips that tend to haunt a lot of these as well. What a beautiful example of a Kellogg Red Bar, would be a proud addition to anyone's collection!

Larry, I was pleased to see that somewhere in it's lifetime someone did a alteration that also benefits me today! It saved me the the trouble!
Title: Re: Kellogg Red Bar 1000
Post by: Doug Rose on November 27, 2016, 07:56:48 PM
Strip the metal base and polish it, makes a real nice looking phone....Doug
Title: Re: Kellogg Red Bar 1000
Post by: Pourme on November 27, 2016, 10:11:05 PM
That is a thought......
Title: Re: Kellogg Red Bar 1000
Post by: Pourme on November 29, 2016, 06:28:22 PM
Strip the metal base and polish it, makes a real nice looking phone....Doug

I'll just say

Great idea!...It's underway, early results look great! I'll unveil the results when it is completely finished!

Thanks for reminding me what you did with that spectacular RCA phone!

Benny