Classic Rotary Phones Forum

Telephone Talk => Forum News => New Member Introductions => Topic started by: Ed Morris on May 13, 2017, 12:18:45 AM

Title: 1941 WE 302 Restored
Post by: Ed Morris on May 13, 2017, 12:18:45 AM
Hi! New member and first post here. I hope this is the right place for this post. I just finished up restoration of a first quarter 1941 Western Electric Model 302 I bought on eBay. This is my first restoration of a telephone. I've been doing tube radios and phonographs for a few years. Recently, I've become interested in restoring some of the phones I remember from my younger days, and decided to start with this one.

This particular phone seems to be all original, with all parts marked with a 1941 date, except the F1 transmitter, which has a 4-48 date. I disassembled the phone, cleaned it, disassembled the 5H dial and cleaned and lubricated it. I repainted the body which was quite scratched and flaking paint. I replaced the missing line cord with a cloth cord, and the handset cord was also replaced with a cloth cord.

Title: Re: 1941 WE 302 Restored
Post by: RotarDad on May 13, 2017, 01:08:18 AM
Welcome Ed!  Nice job on the 302.  I really like the period setting you created to display it.  The 302 is really a work of art, and is a must in any phone collection.  Several folks here collect & restore radios as well.  You've come to a very nice place...  Paul
Title: Re: 1941 WE 302 Restored
Post by: TelePlay on May 13, 2017, 01:12:14 AM
Ed,

Welcome to the forum! A great place to discuss phones, their restoration, ask question and show off finished projects.

I move your post here since it is your first. If you "acquire" more phones, you can start a topic of your own in the "My Telephone Collection" in the "Collector"s Corner" forum board.

     http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?board=68.0

Tell us a bit more about yourself, if you feel comfortable doing so, mainly your connection to phone, the phone industry and how many hundred phones you plan to make your own over the next year or two (a rampant highly infectious disease caught by many phone collectors commonly known as Phoneitis.

There is a section of the forum for radio guys in the "Off Topic" board, the child board "Radios & TVs."

     http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?board=44.0

We'd be interested in your radio collection as well.

Once again, welcome to the forum. The best place in the world concerning vintage rotary and other telephone stuff.
Title: Re: 1941 WE 302 Restored
Post by: Duffy on May 13, 2017, 06:14:12 AM
Welcome to CRPF, your phone looks good.
Title: Re: 1941 WE 302 Restored
Post by: dsk on May 13, 2017, 07:46:31 AM
Welcome Ed!  Nice job on the 302.  I really like the period setting you created to display it.  The 302 is really a work of art, and is a must in any phone collection.  Several folks here collect & restore radios as well.  You've come to a very nice place...  Paul

This is about what I would say to, so Welcome to the forum!
dsk
Title: Re: 1941 WE 302 Restored
Post by: Ed Morris on May 13, 2017, 10:13:47 AM
Thanks for the warm welcome!  I'm one of those people with too many hobbies.  I have been active on the Antique Radio Forum for about ten years.  Mostly I have focused on Zenith Trans-Oceanic radios, both tube and solid state.  There are a couple galleries on my website with radios I have restored.  I also make reproduction batteries for those radios as they are no longer available.  My website is http://143.95.77.243/~elmphoto/radio.htm (http://143.95.77.243/~elmphoto/radio.htm)

I don't have any background in electronics, so most of what I have learned about radios is from reading and ARF.  What I've learned so far about telephones has been from CRPF.  I'm going to have to get rid of some radios, though, to make room for telephones. ::)

I also take a lot of photos when I restore something, and I have already run into the security issue trying to upload photos, so I've got to find a workaround for that problem.



Title: Re: 1941 WE 302 Restored
Post by: Duffy on May 13, 2017, 10:41:32 AM
You will find the information you need here for posting pictures.

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?board=84.0 (http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?board=84.0)
Title: Re: 1941 WE 302 Restored
Post by: TelePlay on May 13, 2017, 10:45:27 AM
Thanks for the warm welcome!  I'm one of those people with too many hobbies.  I have been active on the Antique Radio Forum for about ten years.  Mostly I have focused on Zenith Trans-Oceanic radios, both tube and solid state.  There are a couple galleries on my website with radios I have restored.  I also make reproduction batteries for those radios as they are no longer available.  My website is http://143.95.77.243/~elmphoto/radio.htm (http://143.95.77.243/~elmphoto/radio.htm)

I don't have any background in electronics, so most of what I have learned about radios is from reading and ARF.  What I've learned so far about telephones has been from CRPF.  I'm going to have to get rid of some radios, though, to make room for telephones. ::)

I also take a lot of photos when I restore something, and I have already run into the security issue trying to upload photos, so I've got to find a workaround for that problem.

Ed,

Very nice looking ZTO!

BTW: The link to download the pdf restoration document does not work

As for uploading photos and that security error issue, a  lot has been said on the forum about that since that first came to be an issue. I've worked on it and came up with the fixes that have worked for me and posted them here:

     http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=16137.msg180586#msg180586

In summary, two things cause a security error: 1) meta data usually added by a smart phone or an Adobe product used to edit a photo (I use BatchPurifier LITE (http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=18071.0) to strip meta data from my jpg images when the meta data raises the security flag), and 2) a string of characters within the image code itself is "just right" to raise the security flag (resizing the image usually shuffles the code enough to get around that flag issue). And, there is the occasional instance when both the meta data and image code cause a flag so once the meta data is stripped and it still does not upload, resizing is needed to get rid of the second flag raising issue.

There is a whole board on uploading images to the forum here:

     http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?board=84.0

Any questions or problems, please ask.


Title: Re: 1941 WE 302 Restored
Post by: Dan/Panther on May 13, 2017, 12:29:25 PM
Welcome Ed. You are in the right place.
Are you a member of ARF ?

D/P
Title: Re: 1941 WE 302 Restored
Post by: Ed Morris on May 13, 2017, 12:40:03 PM
Welcome Ed. You are in the right place.
Are you a member of ARF ?

D/P

Yes, I'm on ARF, with the same username as here, Ed Morris
Title: Re: 1941 WE 302 Restored
Post by: Ed Morris on May 13, 2017, 12:42:40 PM
Ed,

Very nice looking ZTO!

BTW: The link to download the pdf restoration document does not work




I just checked the link--it is OK, it is just very slow as it is a 48mb file! 
Title: Re: 1941 WE 302 Restored
Post by: jsowers on May 13, 2017, 01:01:08 PM
Ed, welcome to the Classic Rotary Phones Forum! I enjoyed looking at your site and seeing all the restorations of radios, record players and your 302. You take great pictures and write very well. I especially liked your descriptions of what you used to restore each item. Lots of good details there. I was surprised at the variety of radios you have and I only have one in my collection similar to yours, the 1951 Zenith AM/FM.

Those Califone record players on your site remind me of what I used to do for a living. I started out repairing school AV equipment 35 years ago, long before those players suffered from old age like they do now. Back then it was either replace the needle or clean and lube the idler and most of them were going again. I think I've seen your posts on ARF about these record players, or someone's.

Many of the same things you use to refinish radios you will use on telephones, but you won't have complicated electronics or leaky caps most of the time. Many phones need no electronic restoration at all, just a cosmetic freshening or replacement cords. A testament to their bulletproof construction.

So are you using the 302 on that beautiful drop-leaf table or is it just for show? I like how you install an input on many of your radios so someone can use an iPod or some other portable music source. It makes the radio much more useful and interesting, especially to the younger generation.
Title: Re: 1941 WE 302 Restored
Post by: TelePlay on May 13, 2017, 02:13:31 PM
I just checked the link--it is OK, it is just very slow as it is a 48mb file!

Ed,

Maybe we are talking about to different links. I clicked on this one, in the red box, and got the result shown below that image.
Title: Re: 1941 WE 302 Restored
Post by: Ed Morris on May 13, 2017, 02:16:32 PM
Jonathan, thanks for the comments.  There's a guy on You Tube by the name of Radiotvnut who has posted numerous videos on restoration of those old school players.

I did check the caps in the 302 and was amazed they were dead on after 76 years.  I couldn't check for leakage, but they obviously work and must be extremely well sealed.  I wonder if anyone has ever pulled one apart to see what they're made of?

I do keep most of my radios and use them frequently, and will do the same with phones.   The 302 shown above is going down to the house in the country where my wife grew up.  I have a Model 500DM from 1981 by the bed and a 2500 spare.  My wife doesn't appreciate the ringers, though, so I put on/off switches in the ringer circuit or disconnect it on the older ones.
Title: Re: 1941 WE 302 Restored
Post by: Ed Morris on May 13, 2017, 02:21:08 PM
Ed,

Maybe we are talking about to different links. I clicked on this one, in the red box, and got the result shown below that image.

My bad!  Forgot about that one.  I will fix it.  The Renovated Radios site used to host that guide before I got unlimited storage.  The link on my Resource Page should be good:

http://143.95.77.243/~elmphoto/pdf/H500%20Restoration%20Guide.pdf (http://143.95.77.243/~elmphoto/pdf/H500%20Restoration%20Guide.pdf). Be patient, though, it takes a while.

Title: Re: 1941 WE 302 Restored
Post by: jsowers on May 13, 2017, 02:46:38 PM
I do keep most of my radios and use them frequently, and will do the same with phones.   The 302 shown above is going down to the house in the country where my wife grew up.  I have a Model 500DM from 1981 by the bed and a 2500 spare.  My wife doesn't appreciate the ringers, though, so I put on/off switches in the ringer circuit or disconnect it on the older ones.

I'm glad to hear it's going to be used. It's one thing to just collect them, but to really appreciate their quality and durability, they have to be used. I've got several phones that have been connected in my house for over 30 years, dating back to when I had rotary-only phone service. They still work as new and I even had a lightning strike hit my phone line. It fried a laptop modem and an electronic AT&T phone, but the 500s, 702 and 554s just said "huh?" and went on working.

As for the ringer being loud on the 500 set, yes it is. I wouldn't want that next to my bed either. You have a couple options if you leave the bell disconnected. There's the E1 external ringer used with 701 Princess phones, with only one gong, or the Bell Chime that can be located in a hallway or another room. It emits a pleasant "ding-dong" like a doorbell or you can switch it to loud or soft ring. But it's not right next to your ears when you're sleeping.

You may already use these ringers, but I thought in case you didn't that they were a nicer option than an electronic ringer. I've been able to find both kinds of ringers at yard sales over the years, especially when people renovate a 1960s home that's in Bell System territory.
Title: Re: 1941 WE 302 Restored
Post by: Ed Morris on May 13, 2017, 02:55:47 PM
My wife has three cordless phones around the house, so no problem hearing a phone ring.  They have low REN numbers, but it wouldn't take too many old phones to go over the limit.
Title: Re: 1941 WE 302 Restored
Post by: TelePlay on May 13, 2017, 03:28:51 PM
My bad!  Forgot about that one.  I will fix it.  The Renovated Radios site used to host that guide before I got unlimited storage.  The link on my Resource Page should be good:

Ed,

Thanks. I didn't connect the copy of that file that I first found and downloaded in 2015 to this one until used you link and found them to be identical, both created in 2012 and the file side is virtually the same.

That documented restoration made me put the planned restoration of my ZTO H500 on hold. That was quite an effort and while mine is in much better starting condition, I need time to think and plan before attempting to do it. I found this set at an antique mall two or so years ago and got it for $90 (no shipping so got a complete, clean H500 for $60 or so). The stag is in great condition, nothing to fix, it came with the suction cups, the manual and the complete WaveMagnet. Only get AM but other than a quick, safe, power up, that's all I did.  Here it sits on the top shelf in my den waiting for attention. Not the best picture other than showing the condition of the Stag.
Title: Re: 1941 WE 302 Restored
Post by: Ed Morris on May 13, 2017, 03:46:51 PM
Ed,

Thanks. I didn't connect the copy of that file that I first found and downloaded in 2015 to this one until used you link and found them to be identical, both created in 2012 and the file side is virtually the same.

That documented restoration made me put the planned restoration of my ZTO H500 on hold. That was quite an effort and while mine is in much better starting condition, I need time to think and plan before attempting to do it. I found this set at an antique mall two or so years ago and got it for $90 (no shipping so got a complete, clean H500 for $60 or so). The stag is in great condition, nothing to fix, it came with the suction cups, the manual and the complete WaveMagnet. Only get AM but other than a quick, safe, power up, that's all I did.  Here it sits on the top shelf in my den waiting for attention. Not the best picture other than showing the condition of the Stag.

Badrestorer, who created the guide, had a lot of issues with his 500, more so than typically encountered.  Those radios were rugged and well-built.  Often they were put away because a tube died after tubes were no longer carried at the local drug store, and a new tube will restore the radio to life.

If your radio plays on AM, then it doesn't need a lot of work.  All the SW bands go through the BC switch circuit, so a good bath of DeOxit or CRC electronic cleaner and working the band switches for about ten minutes will usually solve that problem.  The electrolytic caps should be replaced.  IIRC, the regular wax/paper caps in the 500 and 600 TO's may include Bumblebees, which tend to go off like a firecracker when they let go.

I had one pop and my dog wouldn't come out from under the desk for a week  ::), poor guy.  I may have spilled my drink, too.

If the radio plays OK, you can replace them or not, but just be aware they can cause some damage.  Recapping a TO is somewhat more difficult than a typical AC/DC radio due mainly to the crowded chassis and there are a couple caps in the coil tower, but not too hard to get to.

There's a ton of information on ARF on restoration of Trans-Oceanics, along with a number of experts who can walk you through any problems.  There's more stuff on my Resource page, too.
Title: Re: 1941 WE 302 Restored
Post by: TelePlay on May 13, 2017, 04:26:28 PM
Thanks, Ed.

IIRC (and it's been two years), the zenier diodes and the sand resistor in the power supply section need to be replaced. Is that a mandatory thing to do or if it works, can I run the radio with them? I've read stories of these old components being a fire hazard.

I have a full set of replacement tubes and several of the very expensive wide range 1L6. And, yes, a lot of stuff out there on the ZTO. One is even shown for a minute or so in one of the early episodes of M*A*S*H which fits with the age, intent and use of these radios. Hard to believe that a tube sells for more than $50, give or take $10.

Anyway, nice to know you are out there and I'm sure there are many members inclulding myself who would gladly trade forum and phone help for radio help. There's got to be at least 10 members heavily into radios so welcome to the telephone-radio caucus.
Title: Re: 1941 WE 302 Restored
Post by: Ed Morris on May 13, 2017, 05:05:35 PM
No Zener diodes in a TO.  Were you thinking of the selenium rectifier?  There's an eternal debate on ARF about SR replacement.  Personally, if the voltage output is within specs, I leave them alone.  Over time, the voltage may drop too low for the 1L6 to oscillate, but that may not happen for years.

Same with the sand resistor.  If it is crumbling or cracked, I replace it.  If it looks good and is within tolerance, I leave it alone.

Always glad to share, and I will have many questions as I get more phones.  I have $9.95 5302G coming now, so you can imagine the shape it's in.
Title: Re: 1941 WE 302 Restored
Post by: TelePlay on May 13, 2017, 05:19:24 PM
No Zener diodes in a TO.  Were you thinking of the selenium rectifier?

Yes, that's what I meant. I have several radio with selenium rectifiers and it was that ZTO restoration project that showed how to replace them, to get the right voltage for the 1L6 and other tubes.
Title: Re: 1941 WE 302 Restored
Post by: Number, please! on May 14, 2017, 03:54:41 PM
A 302 is what got me started in old phones back in the late 60's.  I had that one as a daily user until 1988 when it disappeared during a large house addition/remodel!  Be careful, it's addicting.  But I can quit anytime I want!  ;)