Classic Rotary Phones Forum

Telephone Switching => VOIP, Asterisk, C*NET, XLink, etc => Topic started by: bellsystem on July 31, 2017, 07:54:29 AM

Title: Connecting a PAP2T ATA to C*Net
Post by: bellsystem on July 31, 2017, 07:54:29 AM
I finally managed to get ahold of an UNLOCKED Linksys PAP2T (ATA). There are so many videos of people with PAP2Ts online that I decided to go with the PAP2T unit, as it seems quite popular compared to the Grandstream units, which were actually selling for a little bit less. It should be arriving within a week. I decided NOT to host myself and go the simple route for now.

a) Is it possible to use C*Net without getting your own number? I'd like to be able to dial into C*Net, but I don't think it's necessary for me to be reachable if that's more configuration
b) Does someone need to "host me" only if I want my own number, or even to get access to C*Net at all?
c) At https://www.ckts.info/ (C*Net website), there's configuration information for people who are hosting themselves. Where can I find the configuration info for ATAs?


Here is my planned setup:
The router is the room next to me, but I DON'T want to run an Ethernet cable under the door and down the hall. There are Ethernet cables running from the router to jacks in the wall. Those jacks run throughout the house. One of them runs to my workstation down there (there's an Ethernet cable plugged from the jack down there into the computer). What I was planning to do is put a switch there, run one cable from that switch to the computer and another to a Powerline RJ45 adapter and plug it in there. Then, plug the other powerline adapter in my bedroom, where all my telephone stuff is, and run an Ethernet cable from that to another switch (a Linksys WRT54G router converted to switch) and then run a cable from that "switch" to the PAP2T. Then connect the PAP2T to a Panasonic PBX, and then connect that PBX to the other PBX that has most of my telephones it. I'll probably have to do some rewiring as I won't be able to keep the PBXs daisychained together (all 3 CO lines) anymore.
So, a lot more complicated than just running an RJ45 cable from the router to the PAP2T, but this should still work just fine.

Thanks all! Can't wait to be dialing in soon!
Title: Re: Connecting a PAP2T ATA to C*Net
Post by: unbeldi on July 31, 2017, 09:02:56 AM
Communication between C-Net hosts is almost exclusively using the IAX protocol v.2. Last I checked, there were only a handful nodes advertising SIP URIs for some reason.

So, with a SIP ATA, you must have another node hosting your access.
With the RPI and Asterisk, you could run IAX yourself.  In that case you don't actually have to have your system registered and a number block allocated if you don't want to be reached.  Anyone on the Internet can call C*Net nodes if they use the C*Net ENUM resolver, which translates C-Net telephone numbers to IAX dial strings.
Title: Re: Connecting a PAP2T ATA to C*Net
Post by: bellsystem on July 31, 2017, 09:24:57 AM
Well, I don't mind being reachable, but if it's more configuration then I'd opt not to do that.

Also, I've decided to do other things with my Raspberry Pi. I'm not going to run Asterisk myself, at least for the time being.

Okay, so to have access at all, I need to be hosted? Is there some sort of database of people willing to host, or do I just contact people and ask if they will host me?
Title: Re: Connecting a PAP2T ATA to C*Net
Post by: Victor Laszlo on July 31, 2017, 07:51:44 PM
A "Powerline RJ45 adapter" is a very bad idea.  Any product that claims to send anything but power over a power line is crap.  Just put a switch at the end of the single ethernet wire.

What fun would C*NET be if you only had the facility to make, rather than to make & receive, calls?  Find someone to host you at first, and they will have blocks of NNX from which to choose. Pick a favorite winning lottery number, or your dog's birthday, or the mileage on your Vespa.  Then get acquainted with programming * and build your own machine.  You can use it to make your own exchange to demonstrate your phone collection.

Some day, you will learn all about the emotional trigger that makes us old guys break out in a rash whenever we see "RJ45" in print.  The combination of terms "Powerline RJ45" makes us break out in a rash, and gives us cold sweats, too.
Title: Re: Connecting a PAP2T ATA to C*Net
Post by: bellsystem on July 31, 2017, 08:43:15 PM
Well, the reviews on it are good. I already ordered it. I'll see how the performance is anyways; C*Net isn't supposed to be as high quality and reliable and standardized as the PSTN anyways. It's just a fun project.

RJ45 is commonly used as shorthand for Ethernet. I know there's a whole book on why they're not the same thing. It's like saying RJ11 cable instead of telephone cable, although RJ21 is also a telephone cable type.

Again, I have no interest at this time in hosting myself. I will do it in a few years. Just not right now. I'm looking for something simple.

And I did say I was getting a switch - two actually. The Powerline is so I don't have to run a 200 foot cable around the house.
Title: Re: Connecting a PAP2T ATA to C*Net
Post by: compubit on August 02, 2017, 12:32:58 AM
I use a power line adapter to get from the modem on the second floor to my office in the basement. It works well enough, but you need to ensure that the two plugs can "talk". My older town home has 2 "sides" to the electrical system, and items on one side won't talk to the other side: Insteon controllers, power line networking, power line-based phone jacks. Also, if there are any whole house filters or surge protectors, they will interfere with the power line networking.

As an alternative, you could connect a wireless router in Bridge mode, and it basically becomes a node on the  wireless network with Ethernet output(s). Our interns did that on a project a few summers ago to connect a wired camera on a boat in the bay back to a base station on shore - granted they were using a directional antenna, but it worked for their needs.

Jim
Title: Re: Connecting a PAP2T ATA to C*Net
Post by: andy1702 on August 02, 2017, 04:18:47 AM
I'd forget the powerline and switches for now and get the thing working with simple ethernet cables. The more stuff you add to the system the more difficult it will be to get working and troubleshoot.

You will need someone to host you. They will also be able to help from their end to diagnose faults. Just make sure you choose someone who has their server switched on all the time. Lots of people switch them off, which totally defeats the point of a network like c*net. It doesn't matter where in the world your host is. That makes absolutely no difference.

Is your external IP address static or dynamic? If it's dynamic (which it most likely is) then you will need to point your ATA to a STUN server. This is a remote server (I use one operated by Google) that your ATA contacts periodically and asks "hey, where am I?" The stun server then reads the IP address the message was sent from and tells your ATA what it is. Your ATA then knows it's external IP address and can send that to your C*net host for use when your host gets a call for you that it needs to send to your ATA.
Title: Re: Connecting a PAP2T ATA to C*Net
Post by: markosjal on August 02, 2017, 05:16:07 AM
A "Powerline RJ45 adapter" is a very bad idea.  Any product that claims to send anything but power over a power line is crap.  Just put a switch at the end of the single ethernet wire...
Not true I use powerline ethernet for streaming HD TV all the time. I even have one VoIP phone connected through one. It works better than Wireless, even the 200 Mbps models. The single biggest problem with them is after a power outage or blip they often need to be unplugged and re-plugged.

The newer 500Mbps models are even better, faster and more robust
Title: Re: Connecting a PAP2T ATA to C*Net
Post by: bellsystem on August 02, 2017, 06:04:07 AM
I got a 200 Mbps adapter only because our Internet speed isn't even that so I didn't see the point in going higher. Also, it was a little cheaper.

I think the whole house may have a surge protector. There is a unit next to the electrical panel. But I think that is for the incoming hot wires, so I don't think it would affect internal to internal communication. By two sides, our electrical panel does have two sides...

I think our IP address is static but I'm not sure. We're IPv4 with NAT obviously. Our public IP address might change periodically but I haven't been keeping track. Whenever I look it up, it always starts with 65 so I just assume it's the same address.

Yeah, I plan to start simple, get it working, and then add the complexity and test it along the way.

Where can I find people to host me? Is there a special list, or do I just ask around?

Also, HOW do I connect the PAP2T to C*Net? It won't magically boot up connected to it. There is nothing at all about configuration in the 30 page owners manual!
Title: Re: Connecting a PAP2T ATA to C*Net
Post by: TelePlay on August 02, 2017, 09:57:35 AM
Where can I find people to host me? Is there a special list, or do I just ask around?

Try this and ask there.

     http://lists.ckts.info/mailman/listinfo/voip
Title: Re: Connecting a PAP2T ATA to C*Net
Post by: bellsystem on August 02, 2017, 11:54:46 AM
Hi John,
I'm already a member of that list. I tried posting something a while back and it never went through to the group. It says that users are "moderated" the first 3-4 times they post, but it looks like nobody ever got around to the "moderating" part. So I've posted, and it doesn't go through to that group. I am receiving emails though from the group.
Title: Re: Connecting a PAP2T ATA to C*Net
Post by: TelePlay on August 02, 2017, 12:25:32 PM
Hi John,
I'm already a member of that list. I tried posting something a while back and it never went through to the group. It says that users are "moderated" the first 3-4 times they post, but it looks like nobody ever got around to the "moderating" part. So I've posted, and it doesn't go through to that group.

Maybe your post was moderated, deleted, in that it did not fit the forum in some way. That's why some boards moderate posts, especially from brand new members, to make sure they are on topic or are make reasonable sense (are uncomplicated and with one specific problem/question) to the forum's mission.

You once said you had a similar experience on another site:

     http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=18376.msg189221#msg189221

Title: Re: Connecting a PAP2T ATA to C*Net
Post by: Alex G. Bell on August 02, 2017, 09:27:04 PM
Maybe your post was moderated, deleted, in that it did not fit the forum in some way. That's why some boards moderate posts, especially from brand new members, to make sure they are on topic or are make reasonable sense (are uncomplicated and with one specific problem/question) to the forum's mission.

You once said you had a similar experience on another site:

     http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=18376.msg189221#msg189221
Probably not.  Very long moderation delays for new members, where messages do not appear until days later, has been a chronic problem with the CNET list for years and has not improved despite repeated complaints.  The response is always: "there's no paid staff, we're just volunteers".  Effectively it drives new wannabees away.
Title: Re: Connecting a PAP2T ATA to C*Net
Post by: bellsystem on August 03, 2017, 09:57:11 AM
Yes, I posted another thread, asking if anyone would be willing to host, and it never got sent out. In any case, it seems there are enough people on this site that I'll reach a large enough audience hopefully.
Title: Re: Connecting a PAP2T ATA to C*Net
Post by: andy1702 on August 04, 2017, 04:39:37 PM
I can host you if you like.

As for setting up the PAP2T, you need to plug it into your router then check in your router settings what internal IP address has been assigned to it. Then on your computer type the IP address into the address bar of your browser. This should bring up the log in page of the router. Log into it and then you'll be faced with a few pages that you need settings for. Drop me a PM at that point with your e-mail and I'll send you the settings you'll need.

Another thing I just thought of... Do you have a smart phone? If you do, there is an app called Zoiper which acts as a softphone. That is the easiest way to connect to c*net because there are less settings to put in. C*net calls would then be carried over the phone's data service.

Andy.
Title: Re: Connecting a PAP2T ATA to C*Net
Post by: bellsystem on August 04, 2017, 04:43:12 PM
No smartphone, no router access (I don't have login access to the router). Are you talking about port forwarding? I can't do that. But people have said you don't need to port forward for ATAs
Title: Re: Connecting a PAP2T ATA to C*Net
Post by: compubit on August 04, 2017, 11:24:28 PM
As long as Andy provides a routable IP address for you to connect to and allows the appropriate ports through his firewall, you should be able to connect a PAP2T without opening anything on your router - provided there is no outbound filtering in place.

J
Title: Re: Connecting a PAP2T ATA to C*Net
Post by: bellsystem on August 05, 2017, 06:49:09 AM
Also, I should add that I need a US number (1-XXX-XXXX)
Title: Re: Connecting a PAP2T ATA to C*Net
Post by: markosjal on August 09, 2017, 12:41:39 PM
I will take on hosting you free for cnet access only I can give you a +1 777 xxxx number . Do not expect all the frills however.

This would be on a trial basis.

This hosting will come from a data center server in Arizona . I am sure you will have great service from the Midwest.
Title: Re: Connecting a PAP2T ATA to C*Net
Post by: bellsystem on August 09, 2017, 01:08:39 PM
Wow, thanks Mark!

All I need is the basic C*Net hosting - what I would get if anyone else were to host. I believe all that is service + 1 number.

A 1 777 number sounds great. I'll take any old number you have to spare.

I mentioned the Midwest just in case there were differences in service. The other person who offered (but hasn't gotten back to me) was on the East Coast, so that wouldn't have been close anyways. I just brought it up in case distance from the host makes any difference in performance. But I'm using this to play around anyways, so it really doesn't matter.

Thanks again. I have my PAP2T. I can login via IP address to configure, but I don't know what details to fill in. Is that all information you can provide?
Title: Re: Connecting a PAP2T ATA to C*Net
Post by: shadow67 on October 10, 2017, 10:21:36 PM
What would the settings be for accessing c*net on zoiper? I would like to give it a try
Title: Re: Connecting a PAP2T ATA to C*Net
Post by: markosjal on October 11, 2017, 12:55:11 PM
Shadow67,

Your settings depend much on the account you have . Do you have an account?
Title: Re: Connecting a PAP2T ATA to C*Net
Post by: shadow67 on October 11, 2017, 09:53:24 PM
I do not have a c*net account. However I do have my own asterisk system on freepbx that I was trying to configure so that I could dial out and reach c*net numbers. Apparently one needs to set up an enum trunk and change an enum file to include std.ckts.info in the enum search. As I am not aware how to edit that just yet from the freepbx Gui I saw the mention above about using zoiper, which I have on my iPhone and use as an extension on the freepbx. I thought there may be an easy way to set up an account on the app that would work. Thanks
Title: Re: Connecting a PAP2T ATA to C*Net
Post by: shadow67 on October 11, 2017, 10:01:06 PM
Just as added info I have a few ATAs on my system with old rotary phones on them. I even was able to add a manual 333 W.E. phone and configure the ATA so when it goes off hook it automatically dials my cellphone, which is pretty cool.
Title: Re: Connecting a PAP2T ATA to C*Net
Post by: markosjal on October 12, 2017, 03:05:20 AM
Shadow67,

I have a several asterisk boxes, one is a C*net node . Just be aware of a few things....

If you start sending calls to C*Net with caller ID that does no reverse map to your IP address your IP will get blocked, PERMANENTLY , on some nodes. They did this to me full well knowing I was waiting for my number assignments (which I think took several weeks).

There are a lot on their list who see themselves as "experts" and get offended when a new user does not seek their advice or help.

Their dialplan they will send you needs serious editing. If you have a block of 1000 numbers you can reduce 1000 lines to a single line right off the bat.

The "old timers" are free to post whatever they want, but newcomers it seems are not treated equally, even though as I pointed out to them , it was I, that years ago, suggested they look at asterisk as a solution to get their old switches up and talking. I have been on and off that list several times. I think I am off permanently, not only because they banned me for saying what I see, but because i want nothing to do with that group.

I think you will need a lot of good luck to have any success getting a node up at all. I do wish you a better ride than I had. I had wanted to put up a node for years it just turned into sour grapes for me. They took all the fun out of it.

Mark
Title: Re: Connecting a PAP2T ATA to C*Net
Post by: andy1702 on October 13, 2017, 07:02:45 AM
Mark,

Instead of whinging about C*net why don't you just shut down your server and leave it? You obviously have the skills to set up ypour own voip network, so why not do that?

Please remember C*net is simply a way for users of vintage equipment to connect it together. It is NOT the place to make clever use of VOIP systems or to make a quick buck.

If your C*net server has not been set up correctly, working to guidelines agreed by other C*net users then yes, your calls will be blocked. However it is not rocket science to configure an ATA or even a server correctly.
Title: Re: Connecting a PAP2T ATA to C*Net
Post by: andy1702 on October 13, 2017, 07:08:48 AM
What would the settings be for accessing c*net on zoiper? I would like to give it a try

If your phones are connected to an ATA then to access those phones from the Zoiper app you would need a number set up on a hosting C*net server for each incoming line (each port on your ATA) that you have. Your host will then be able to give you a seperate phone number for your Zoiper app, which is effectively another phone. Setting up the app involves nothing more than entering a username and password, which will be given to you by whoever is hosting your c*net service. If they can't do that then you should switch host to someone who can.
Title: Re: Connecting a PAP2T ATA to C*Net
Post by: markosjal on October 13, 2017, 04:50:32 PM
Mark,

Instead of whinging about C*net why don't you just shut down your server and leave it? You obviously have the skills to set up ypour own voip network, so why not do that?

Please remember C*net is simply a way for users of vintage equipment to connect it together. It is NOT the place to make clever use of VOIP systems or to make a quick buck.

If your C*net server has not been set up correctly, working to guidelines agreed by other C*net users then yes, your calls will be blocked. However it is not rocket science to configure an ATA or even a server correctly.

There is no "whine" as you seem to make in your claim. I merely warned a prospective new user of my recent experience.  Part of the problem with C*Net , as of a month ago said rules were frequently eluded to but did not exist in complete published form anywhere . That is a serious problem in my opinion.

I do offer FREE ATA hosting on C*Net however if someone want to combine that with Google Voice , and even e911 service, meaning "all in one" . I do that too and yes I charge a fee for it. 

My server is not nor never was mis-configured.