Classic Rotary Phones Forum

Telephone Talk => Forum News => How To Post Photos on CRPF => Topic started by: Duffy on August 07, 2017, 08:28:20 PM

Title: Image Uploading Parameter Discussion
Post by: Duffy on August 07, 2017, 08:28:20 PM
Nice job on the card Doug !

Jeff

Thanks Jeff,

Now if I could only get it to print the right size.  >:(
Title: Re: Image Uploading Parameter Discussion
Post by: Alex G. Bell on August 07, 2017, 08:31:28 PM
Thanks Jeff,

Now if I could only get it to print the right size.  >:(
What format is the file in? 

What application are you using to print?
Title: Re: Image Uploading Parameter Discussion
Post by: Duffy on August 07, 2017, 08:39:36 PM
What format is the file in? 

What application are you using to print?

JPG and Paint.
Title: Re: Image Uploading Parameter Discussion
Post by: Alex G. Bell on August 07, 2017, 08:55:47 PM
JPG and Paint.
I never use Paint but in that case, what version of Windows?  I'll look at it if I have a machine running the same version.

Some programs have an option to scale a sheet to fit the stated paper size.  If you declare the page to be letter size, since most printers cannot print to the very edge, some programs will scale the declared paper size to fit the printable area, losing perhaps 1/4" all around and slightly reducing the printed image size.

One other issue I've seen with images on that site is that the embedded file header DPI parameter in some is wrong by 50%.  I forget whether they were double size or half size but I've found many of them to be wrong.

Some programs will use the DPI value to attempt to print the actual size based on this DPI and from these wrong files you will have half or double size copies.

What size is it actually printing?  What size is it supposed to be?

Upload the JPG to this topic or tell us both the HxV pixel count and stated DPI if you know how to inspect them.
Title: Re: Image Uploading Parameter Discussion
Post by: Alex G. Bell on August 07, 2017, 11:35:26 PM
Oh!  I forgot you already had uploaded the # card.  Apparently the DPI info is blank and Irfanview (and probably other things) assumes it's at the default 72dpi screen resolution, which makes it about 7" in diameter.

I set it to 300dpi, which makes it 1-5/8" diameter, what the # card on my S-C 1248 measures.  See whether this prints better.
Title: Re: Image Uploading Parameter Discussion
Post by: Duffy on August 08, 2017, 04:55:14 AM
Oh!  I forgot you already had uploaded the # card.  Apparently the DPI info is blank and Irfanview (and probably other things) assumes it's at the default 72dpi screen resolution, which makes it about 7" in diameter.

I set it to 300dpi, which makes it 1-5/8" diameter, what the # card on my S-C 1248 measures.  See whether this prints better.

Great thanks, I'll give that a try later on today.
Title: Re: Image Uploading Parameter Discussion
Post by: unbeldi on August 08, 2017, 07:36:27 AM
I am afraid that setting the DPI parameter on images is not preserved anymore, one can no longer size images properly, because the Forum is now (sadly) set to strip EXIF data from images, IIRC.  JPEG images also are reduced in quality with a higher compression ratio.
Title: Re: Image Uploading Parameter Discussion
Post by: Alex G. Bell on August 08, 2017, 09:13:56 AM
I am afraid that setting the DPI parameter on images is not preserved anymore, one can no longer size images properly, because the Forum is now (sadly) set to strip EXIF data from images, IIRC.  JPEG images also are reduced in quality with a higher compression ratio.
That explains why the DPI param. is blank but in that case we don't know that the version of the file he attempted to print from was also blank, hence why his original attempt did not produce a copy of the correct size.

Until we know what version of Win (& consequently of Paint) he used, we cannot assess whether it relies on the DPI value or not to determine physical size at print time nor whether he can correct it if it's wrong in the file anyway for some other reason.

I don't see anything in Win10 Home Paint which allows the DPI param to be viewed let alone set.

I've attached a PDF set so Acrobat thinks it's 1.63x1.63".  Maybe that will work.  Presumably the forum S/W cannot muck with the file header in a PDF.  Acrobat must be set to print with SHRINK and ENLARGE disabled.

I tried uploading the TIF and it was rejected.
Title: Re: Image Uploading Parameter Discussion
Post by: unbeldi on August 08, 2017, 09:45:26 AM
Number cards are probably the only documents I printed in the most recent years, and when set to the proper physical dimensions by adjusting the DPI value, they print perfectly in the exact size as intended, when I had the correct printer software installed for the printer I was using.  The same applies to designation strips for 565 telsets, created by exact specification of cell dimensions in Excel or OpenOffice.  I can't imaging that any modern computer would not do that precisely.

HERE (http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=8210.msg96978#msg96978) is a 7"x10" sheet of number cards, for example, which I created a few years ago. It has exact dimensions and should print automatically in the correct size if the printer settings are correct for 100% sizing.
Title: Re: Image Uploading Parameter Discussion
Post by: Alex G. Bell on August 08, 2017, 10:21:46 AM
Number cards ... when set to the proper physical dimensions by adjusting the DPI value, ... print perfectly in the exact size as intended, when I had the correct printer software installed for the printer I was using.  The same applies to designation strips for 565 telsets, created by exact specification of cell dimensions in Excel or OpenOffice.  I can't imaging that any modern computer would not do that precisely.
I agree.  I have been doing this for decades going back to PC Paint Brush with PCX files with no problem and other software since but if someone only has PAINT they may be unable to print a generic image file.  That's where a properly set PDF may work better using the free Acrobat reader.
Title: Re: Image Uploading Parameter Discussion
Post by: TelePlay on August 08, 2017, 10:46:09 AM
I am afraid that setting the DPI parameter on images is not preserved anymore, one can no longer size images properly, because the Forum is now (sadly) set to strip EXIF data from images, IIRC.  JPEG images also are reduced in quality with a higher compression ratio.

It's a choice, experience recoding and never get the "security error" screen OR save the EXIF by not recoding and let members deal passing "security error" message by removing EXIF data and/or resizing on their own image.

And then stop complaining forever and a day about "I CAN'T UPLOAD MY IMAGES BECAUSE I GET A "SECURITY ERROR" - WHY CAN'T SOMETHING BE DONE IN THE SOFTWARE TO AVOID THE "SECURITY ERROR"?

One way or the other, which is preferred? Do we need to do a poll? What do our regular members want, automatic recoding or security errors?

We finally fix one MAJOR uploading issue and end up getting slammed with another. This will be filed in the "can't win for trying" topic.
Title: Re: Image Uploading Parameter Discussion
Post by: Alex G. Bell on August 08, 2017, 10:56:07 AM
It's a choice, experience recoding and never get the "security error" screen OR save the EXIF by not recoding and let members deal passing "security error" message by removing EXIF data and/or resizing on their own image.

And then stop complaining forever and a day about "I CAN'T UPLOAD MY IMAGES BECAUSE I GET A "SECURITY ERROR" - WHY CAN'T SOMETHING BE DONE IN THE SOFTWARE TO AVOID THE "SECURITY ERROR"?

One way or the other, which is preferred? Do we need to do a poll? What do our regular members want, automatic recoding or security errors?

We finally fix one MAJOR uploading issue and end up getting slammed with another. This will be filed in the "can't win for trying" topic.
JPGs are not a particularly good choice for graphic images anyway.  JPG compression is best for continuous tone photos. 

What will the server do to a TIF file which has no EXIF data but stores both the pixel count and DPI value in the header?  The fact that TIFs are not displayed on the web page seems unimportant.  The JPG can be uploaded for viewing and the TIF for printing as an alternative to a PDF.  Either should work.
Title: Re: Image Uploading Parameter Discussion
Post by: unbeldi on August 08, 2017, 11:36:07 AM
It's a choice, experience recoding and never get the "security error" screen OR save the EXIF by not recoding and let members deal passing "security error" message by removing EXIF data and/or resizing on their own image.

Security check errors still occur, and I have received them as late as today.  There is nothing short of fixing the problem of the poor algorithm in the software to stop them.  Just stripping EXIF or XMP data does not solve it alone.  The algorithm is still triggered by random bit-patterns that match the search strings.
Title: Re: Image Uploading Parameter Discussion
Post by: Alex G. Bell on August 08, 2017, 11:50:10 AM
Security check errors still occur, and I have received them as late as today.  There is nothing short of fixing the problem of the poor algorithm in the software to stop them.  Just stripping EXIF or XMP data does not solve it alone.  The algorithm is still triggered by random bit-patterns that match the search strings.
I tried to upload a TIF version of the number card thinking it did not contain EXIF data, that the DPI value is embedded some other way.  It rejected both versions of the TIF file, which was 357KB @ 24bit color, 131KB @ 8 bit color, not especially large. 

What security threat can a TIF file possibly pose?  It's not executable.
Title: Re: Image Uploading Parameter Discussion
Post by: mentalstampede on August 08, 2017, 12:00:22 PM
If you use photo editing software such as Adobe Photoshop or GIMP you can specify any size you like in the print dialogue. GIMP is free, and it's what I have been using to print number cards and payphone instruction cards with good results. In addition, it is a full-featured editing suite.

GIMP can be downloaded here: https://www.gimp.org/downloads/
Title: Re: Image Uploading Parameter Discussion
Post by: TelePlay on August 08, 2017, 02:57:27 PM
Security check errors still occur, and I have received them as late as today.  There is nothing short of fixing the problem of the poor algorithm in the software to stop them.  Just stripping EXIF or XMP data does not solve it alone.  The algorithm is still triggered by random bit-patterns that match the search strings.

First I've heard of the security error popping up anywhere since the recoding was initiated by "checking a box" in the SMF software.

As a matter of fact, I had more than a handful of PMs from members saying they are no longer having or running into the security error problem.

But then, most of those members have really not participated in the forum as they once did probably due to the contention, arrogant, deeply technical "I'm right and you're wrong" conversations, and I use that term loosely, on many forum topics over the past few months.

Used to be a new to phones person would join the forum with a problem and get it fixed in 10 replies or less by members who are no longer offering help (real help to the new person who would then know exactly what to do or where to go or what to buy to resolve the problem) becasue they are fully aware that their simple, helpful reply would be swamped by many few rapid fire esoteric replies that do more to chase members away than to answer their simple question.

Multiple replies that are filled with more off topic tangents than one could keep up with, if they cared or felt like being talked down to over and over. Replies filled with further, unnecessary questions that would do nothing to help, yes, help the requesting member fix an issue rather than be exposed to and expected to learn everything and every detail that the top engineers at Bell Labs would have known so they could then buy the manuals and figure out how to fix it themselves.

This used to be an extremely friendly forum for collectors, restorers and even, yes, dare I say it, the unlearned first time but highly interested telephone owner.

The first paragraph of the Registration Agreement state "You agree, through your use of this forum, that you will not post any material which is false, defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, adult material, or otherwise in violation of any International or United States Federal law."

The attitude I've been reading in most of the replies to topics are encyclopedic in size but based on nothing more than self serving arrogance is at times specifically defamatory but in general, 80% of the replies posted in good topics are abusive and with repetition, harassing to the point that both new and long time very good members no long participate (they don't read and they don't post). This is desire by some to show off there knowledge at the expense of civility and family friendly atmosphere once the hallmark of this forum is being rapidly torn apart, one reply at a time.

I really don't care what's wrong with a TIFF. I don't care what image editing software you use. I don't care how or what you use (pdf, jpg, zip or whatever) to upload documents and information to the forum. I especially don't care if it's in replies at the end of a topic where a good member is proudly showing off his newly acquired phone, before and after, but then degenerates into an unrelated discussion.

We have a member who was accused of being a troll whose only intent was to keep a topic going by getting members to fight among themselves in trying to decide who knew or knows best about something so far unrelated to the topic's creation one has to read the whole topic to see where it went bad. I venture to say we have more than one troll on the forum doing exactly that for their own personal reasons.

Why is it so hard to keeping it? If you know more than someone else than required to answer a question asked, why the need to show that? Why is it so hard to keep a topic on topic and if needed, create a new topic for something that may have come up in the topic but unrelated to the topic? Why all the time and energy spent on answering "what if's" when we all know nothing suggested will ever be done? Why berate someone for not knowing something you do chasing them away from the forum? Why not help them as members used to do so by offering simple steps of what to do based on images and verbiage provided by the newer member? Why create an atmosphere on the forum where members are afraid to ask a question?

Why can't we take this forum back to being a friendly, helpful place where ignorance (the basis for a question) is erased in simple, positive way without attitude and arrogance? Just why?

This has to change for the better or this forum will end up being identical to another forum that is dying for all the same reasons mentioned above.

No one needs to be a member of this forum and unless all of make everyone else feel welcome, safe and helped, there is no reason to stick around and get nothing but mental abuse.




Title: Re: Image Uploading Parameter Discussion
Post by: HarrySmith on August 08, 2017, 03:14:52 PM
Well said John, I could not agree more. I used to say this was the best forum on the net. I can no longer say that. Simply civilty and simple answers to simple questions are what we had and what we need to get back to.
If a new member asks what time it is he does not want or need to know what goes into creating the clock and all about all the time zones in the world that could apply to it.
Keep it simple and friendly!
Title: Re: Image Uploading Parameter Discussion
Post by: Alex G. Bell on August 08, 2017, 04:08:29 PM
I don't agree.  Most of the replies seem to be related to a real problem someone had and getting at that problem.  Fixing problems requires getting into the specifics.  Hand waving and pretending it's not there because the solution is "too complex to discuss" do not fix the problem and leaves the person who asked for help with just a lot of wasted time that does not lead to a solution.  I could say much more but discretion requires otherwise.
Title: Re: Image Uploading Parameter Discussion
Post by: Doug Rose on August 08, 2017, 08:31:58 PM
If you just crop an offending pic, just a little, it always goes though. Always.

The Forum  is free, let's stop being critics. It is a great place for the old timer or the newbie alike.

The are a select few who do not like how the Forum is run. Why are you still here?

When you have 800 Posts in less than eight months, you have way too much time on your hands.

John works way too hard trying to keep this going.

What if Dennis just says Fuc....Screw it and the Forum goes away? I would not be a happy camper!

An old man once said, it's a hobby, it's supposed to be fun.

Please...can we lightened up a bit?

I miss Scola. We are all on the right side of the dirt. It could be worse.

Chill.
Title: Re: Image Uploading Parameter Discussion
Post by: K1WI on August 09, 2017, 06:42:13 PM
    Been a member for a long time and just wanted to add my take on all this . First this is probably the best forum out there ,most members are helpful , knowledgeable and just plain nice folk. The amount of information I've garnered over the years is amazing. Are there annoying members ....sure ! Just like in the rest of life. I don't believe there is anywhere else on the net that even comes close to CRPF.
     So ...in my opinion ..if a member disparages or belittles you tell them and then move on.... ( and if they do tell YOU  listen to what they are saying !!!)
.. .there's so much more to learn .
      Thanks for letting me vent ...and for just being there.
   Andy F  K1WI         
                             Tropea , Calabria , Italia