Classic Rotary Phones Forum

Telephone Talk => Wooden Phones => Topic started by: Kjmcmurdo on November 04, 2017, 04:52:50 PM

Title: Need help restoring my estate sale 2 boxer
Post by: Kjmcmurdo on November 04, 2017, 04:52:50 PM
Any advice on clean up of the two boxer? 

And, the MAGNETO is stuck.  I've lubed it with de-rusting Rust o leum lube.  Still stuck.
Title: Re: Need help restoring my estate sale 2 boxer
Post by: Sargeguy on November 05, 2017, 04:15:11 PM
Yikes!  Looks like it has seen some moisture.  Start by cleaning it with soap and water.  The magneto crank looks bent, it could be that the shaft is also bent.  The hook is also at a weird angle and looks more like a hook from a 293.  The phone had a dial added and it is possible the hook and switch were replaced with a later type of hook.  Once you clean it up you should post some more pics.  We can better assess the condition and how best to proceed. 
Title: Re: Need help restoring my estate sale 2 boxer
Post by: Kjmcmurdo on November 06, 2017, 02:45:06 PM
I did like you said and cleaned it with soap and water.  Looks pretty good.  What should I do with the mouth piece ARM?  I don't know what it is called, sorry.  I included the patent stamps and a few other photos.  I am very open to suggestions. 
THANK YOU IN ADVANCE!
Title: Re: Need help restoring my estate sale 2 boxer
Post by: TelePlay on November 06, 2017, 02:52:43 PM
Nice job on the wood.

Seems whatever water got to the outside also gunked up the magneto and hook switch pile up.

Did you get the transmitter apart (4 small screws around the edge) to see if it is also gunked up?
Title: Re: Need help restoring my estate sale 2 boxer
Post by: RB on November 06, 2017, 02:53:40 PM
Wow! nice lookin boxes, not so nice transmitter arm...
may be best to strip and re paint that part.
others may have better suggestions.
Title: Re: Need help restoring my estate sale 2 boxer
Post by: Sargeguy on November 06, 2017, 02:56:38 PM
The #5 arm looks like it will need to be re-painted.  There is a section on re-painting candlestick phones that should help.

The transmitter looks like a 7-digit, which are very desirable and carry a premium. Clean the nickel parts with a 1:1 baking soda:water mixture and a paper towel. 

The original hook has been replaced, probably when the dial was added. 

The wiring has been updated.  Originally the the wires would have run from the binding posts on the top box to the ones on the transmitter.



Title: Re: Need help restoring my estate sale 2 boxer
Post by: Sargeguy on November 06, 2017, 03:03:20 PM
You may want to seek out a replacement magneto.  They are fairly easy to find and usually cheap.  The No. 5 arm can be expensive, you are probably better off repainting it.  The hook is fairly difficult to find.
Title: Re: Need help restoring my estate sale 2 boxer
Post by: Kjmcmurdo on November 06, 2017, 03:22:32 PM
I agree.  The ARM is too far gone, so I will repaint.  High gloss or satin finish?  I'm thinking satin.

I just took apart a 5 Bar Magneto on a Stromberg Carlson and fixed it.  So, I am going to try fixing this one.  Fingers crossed.

I am having a hard time with the dial.  It was locked.  I was thinking of starting a post for help, but I'm not sure how to identify the dial.  Maybe you will know. 
Title: Re: Need help restoring my estate sale 2 boxer
Post by: Sargeguy on November 06, 2017, 09:08:28 PM
It is a Western Electric #6 dial dating from 1975.  How big of a hole did they cut for the dial?  You might just want to chuck the dial if you plan to restore it ot something close to original condition.
Title: Re: Need help restoring my estate sale 2 boxer
Post by: Kjmcmurdo on November 07, 2017, 10:04:44 AM
You've read my mind.  I was thinking of putting the dial inside the box since its already wired.  But, that would not be original.  What would be in the box, batteries?
Title: Re: Need help restoring my estate sale 2 boxer
Post by: RB on November 07, 2017, 11:37:46 AM
yup, 2 or 3 big 1.5 volt cells :)
original, did not include a dial anyway...unless i am mistaken??? it has happened before.
Most use 2 D cells for power, leaves plenty of room in the box for a dial too ;)
Title: Re: Need help restoring my estate sale 2 boxer
Post by: Kjmcmurdo on November 07, 2017, 12:00:50 PM
That's what I'll do.  I really appreciate you taking your time to help me on this.  I will post when I make changes.
Much appreciated
Ken
Title: Re: Need help restoring my estate sale 2 boxer
Post by: Sargeguy on November 07, 2017, 05:38:09 PM
This phone would originally have had a wet cell battery.  It pre-dates the introduction of dry cell batteries
Title: Re: Need help restoring my estate sale 2 boxer
Post by: RB on November 07, 2017, 05:52:04 PM
ok, new wrinkle in the brain :)
had not known that one.
what did a wet cell look like?
Title: Re: Need help restoring my estate sale 2 boxer
Post by: Kjmcmurdo on November 07, 2017, 06:40:20 PM
So now what would you suggest to do?
Title: Re: Need help restoring my estate sale 2 boxer
Post by: TelePlay on November 07, 2017, 06:59:48 PM
what did a wet cell look like?

Like this, round or square. You have to imagine the cap or lid with two terminals which are connected inside the jar to 2 electrodes immersed in an electrolytic solution. The old WE catalogs on TCI show the jars and electrodes (different jars and electrodes).
Title: Re: Need help restoring my estate sale 2 boxer
Post by: Sargeguy on November 07, 2017, 07:19:32 PM
Like this
Title: Re: Need help restoring my estate sale 2 boxer
Post by: TelePlay on November 07, 2017, 10:22:46 PM
I've never seen an original but of the similar but different old original battery jars on eBay, they are quite pricey.

(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/h28AAOSw0j9ZSHqJ/s-l1600.jpg)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-EDISON-Primary-Cell-Battery-SQUARE-GREEN-Glass-Jar-Samson-Railroad/232551129706
Title: Re: Need help restoring my estate sale 2 boxer
Post by: Kjmcmurdo on November 07, 2017, 10:25:02 PM
I've never seen anything like it.  They're amazing!
Title: Re: Need help restoring my estate sale 2 boxer
Post by: RB on November 08, 2017, 08:48:20 AM
I have seen examples of wet cells, but never a link to phone applications.
had no idea, thanks guys for the education.
was there a cut off date when they switched to dry cells?
and were they 1.5 volt or there about?
I would imagine, the mix of the juice would effect the total output voltage?
Title: Re: Need help restoring my estate sale 2 boxer
Post by: TelePlay on November 08, 2017, 11:35:12 AM
I have seen examples of wet cells, but never a link to phone applications.
had no idea, thanks guys for the education.
was there a cut off date when they switched to dry cells?
and were they 1.5 volt or there about?
I would imagine, the mix of the juice would effect the total output voltage?

Yes, the voltage depends on the electrodes used and the solution. 1.5 volts DC is "normal."

Wet cells began to go out when they figured out how to make the solution a paste and put it into a cylinder which became known as the dry cell, at first the big round batteries and eventually the "D" cells and onward. No cut off date, just a transition period from wet to dry. For example, the 1916 WE apparatus catalog in which I found those wet cells had dry cells on the next page.

If you have a DVM, you can put two different electrodes into a solution that has electrolytic properties and play with mini-voltage batteries you are creating.

Just ran down to the dungeon to make one up (5 minutes total time including taking multiple readings). I didn't have any pure zinc so used an iron nail as my reference anode electrode (-) and attached a copper wire, a brass wire and a stainless steel probe to the cathode (+) lead.

Half filled a small plastic cup with tap water and added table salt. Got the following readings:

(-) nail === brass wire (+)   0.22 volts
(-) nail === copper wire (+)   0.32 volts

then added a teaspoon of vinegar and got these readings:

(-) nail === brass wire (+)   0.33 volts  (the acetic acid added 0.1 volts with brass)
(-) nail === copper wire (+)   0.35 volts  (the acetic acid added only 0.03 volts with copper)

attached a Stainless Steel rod and got:

(-) nail === SS (+)   0.42 volts

Of course, the metal is used up to create the voltage, it rusts so to speak. The molasses I used to clean lanterns created a voltage between the tin/steel lantern and the copper reference electrode used to check for voltage.

Back then they used the best solution and electrodes to get about 1.5 VDC out of each battery jar. One thing nice about the battery jars is that they could be dumped and reloaded with new electrolyte solution and the electrodes changed out as needed.

Somewhere there tables showing the voltage produced between different metals in different solutions - basic physical chemistry stuff. Something to "wow" the kids with. The solution can be anything that passes electrons, soda, orange juice, salt water, etc).


Title: Re: Need help restoring my estate sale 2 boxer
Post by: Sargeguy on November 11, 2017, 08:33:08 PM
Here is a base for the #5 arm:


https://www.ebay.com/itm/282602682207