Classic Rotary Phones Forum

Telephone Identification, Repair & Restoration => Telephone Troubleshooting and Repair => Topic started by: Badge234 on December 27, 2017, 11:47:22 AM

Title: Need help with an ITT Phone that has a Stromberg Carlson ringer that does not work
Post by: Badge234 on December 27, 2017, 11:47:22 AM
Hi,

I realize this thread is quite old in terms of internet threads but its still quite relevent. I have bought a phone that looks very much like the one Neoheurist bought and I have the same problem ie. The phone doesnt ring. The solution here seems to be to change the ringer for a CA4 rigner module but I can't  find one at a decent price. I have read various threads on the internet about similar phones with similar problems and some people have suggested that rewiring the ringer might do the trick. Now I have tried a few of those suggestions to no avail. Now I'm not entirely sure my phone is wired like it originally was and of course, it still doesn't ring.

So I guess my question is, can the phone be rewired or otherwise modified (stuff of changing the whole ringer module) so that it will ring?

I've included picture of the markings I have found on my rigner module. Obviously not a CA4 since I could not find that inscription anywhere.

Thanks.

PS. Please excuse any syntax errors. English is not my first language. I try to make an effort to convey my thoughts correctly but some of those thoughts might translate poorly. Should you need me to clarify something I wrote, I will gladly do so.
Title: Re: Need help with an ITT Phone that has a Stromberg Carlson ringer that does not work
Post by: LarryInMichigan on December 27, 2017, 12:11:25 PM
Badge234 ,

It looks like you have a frequency ringer which may or may not be able to be coaxed to ring.  There should be a marking on it somewhere showing the ringing frequency.  The pictures only show the manufacture date and REN number, which indicates the amount of current drawn by the ringer.  At any rate, C4A ringers are plentiful in the USA and Canada.  Where are you located?

Larry
Title: Re: Need help with an ITT Phone that has a Stromberg Carlson ringer that does not work
Post by: HarrySmith on December 27, 2017, 12:16:40 PM
A picture of the complete ringer, including the label with the frequency info Larry asked for which may be on the wiring diagram would be helpful. Sometimes adding a capacitor can help.
Title: Re: Need help with an ITT Phone that has a Stromberg Carlson ringer that does not work
Post by: Dan/Panther on December 27, 2017, 12:34:23 PM
That's a Stromberg Carlson isn't it ?
ITT has the standard potted network, while SC, has the circuit board. At least that's what I've found.

D/P
Title: Re: Need help with an ITT Phone that has a Stromberg Carlson ringer that does not work
Post by: LarryInMichigan on December 27, 2017, 01:32:48 PM
I have seen SC frequency ringers in WE 591s.  They would have been used by independent telcos on party lines.

Larry
Title: Re: Need help with an ITT Phone that has a Stromberg Carlson ringer that does not work
Post by: HarrySmith on December 27, 2017, 05:51:47 PM
A picture of the complete ringer, including the label with the frequency info Larry asked for which may be on the wiring diagram would be helpful. Sometimes adding a capacitor can help.

Sorry, I just scolled to the original post and found the piture of the ringer. That is definetly a frequency ringer. I would recommend going for a C4 ringer.
Title: Re: Need help with an ITT Phone that has a Stromberg Carlson ringer that does not work
Post by: Badge234 on December 29, 2017, 02:31:59 PM
Hello everyone,

Thanks for taking to time to help me out. I can see no other stamp or writing anywhere on the ringer module except for the number 16 stamped in the metal of the frame underneath the ringer and what I have already posted. The phone itself is stamped ITT and the ringer as you could see is stamped Stromberg Carlson. I do not have a wiring diagram but it looks pretty much like other phones I've seen here (especially the one from the original poster, save the capacitor on the ringer module).

Here are a few more pictures of the phone's "guts".

Now I understand that CA4 ringers are very common but like I said, I could not find one so far at a reasonable price. I'm up in Montreal, Canada. I've seen a few on eBay but they were selling for the price of the whole phone. I've already indulged myself by buying the phone because it brought back memories but was hoping I wouldn't have to put any more money on it. If I can just rewire it or add a capacitor or something for it to ring, it would be great. If not, I guess I'll hunt for a ringer module for cheap.

Thanks again.

Paul
Title: Re: Need help with an ITT Phone that has a Stromberg Carlson ringer that does not work
Post by: TelePlay on December 29, 2017, 02:43:35 PM
Sorry, I just scolled to the original post and found the piture of the ringer. That is definetly a frequency ringer. I would recommend going for a C4 ringer.

Harry, that is not the ringer under current discussion. That image was posted in 2011

(http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5764.0;attach=73027;image)

and the topic recently renewed with a question about a different phone/ringer.

Badge234, could you take a picture of your ringer, from the same angle as shown in the one just above, so we can see what type of ringer you have in your phone? There were no image attached/uploaded with your last post.

Thanks . . .

Title: Re: Need help with an ITT Phone that has a Stromberg Carlson ringer that does not work
Post by: Badge234 on December 29, 2017, 06:10:29 PM
For some reason, I can't seem to be able to join photos like I did last time. The photos seem to upload but then I get a blank forum page and nothing else happens. If I try to send again, I get a message that I have already posted that message but when I come back, the message is not there.

Anyone know why that is or how I could upload the photos some other way?

Thanks,

Paul
Title: Re: Need help with an ITT Phone that has a Stromberg Carlson ringer that does not work
Post by: TelePlay on December 29, 2017, 09:01:37 PM
You are trying to upload images that are too large, file size. Resize each of you images down to 3,000 pixels on the largest side. That would result in a file size of under 3 Mbytes and those will upload as attachments.

If you get a white screen, hit the back arrow on your browser, hit F5 to refresh the page, uncheck any attached images (usually only one in this type of system error) and then attach the smaller, downsized images.

Resizing to a 3,000 by about 2,000 pixel images, or smaller (2,500 by about 1,700) works every time to avoid the white screen buffer overflow problem.

Uploading images directly from a 12 Mpixel camera will always cause that problem.

Title: Re: Need help with an ITT Phone that has a Stromberg Carlson ringer that does not work
Post by: TelePlay on December 29, 2017, 09:09:40 PM
Your first two images were 1,182.55 kB, 1,920x1,080 [1.1 Mbytes in file size and 1,929 pixels by 1,080 pixels in size).

Were you using the same camera or did you switch to a higher Megapixel camera when using those that won't upload?

See #4a at this link for more on the white screen problem.

     http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=18551.0
Title: Re: Need help with an ITT Phone that has a Stromberg Carlson ringer that does not work
Post by: Dan/Panther on December 30, 2017, 12:09:17 PM
I posted a comparison thread between the ITT 500 and the Stromberg Carlson 500. Itt wins hands down. Here is the link.

D/P

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=1142.msg14289;topicseen#msg14289
Title: Re: Need help with an ITT Phone that has a Stromberg Carlson ringer that does not work
Post by: Badge234 on December 31, 2017, 01:32:51 PM
Seems like I had forgotten to resize one of the pictures, resulting in the blank screen I was getting when trying to attach the photos. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. So here are the photos I took of my phone's guts.

Paul
Title: Re: Need help with an ITT Phone that has a Stromberg Carlson ringer that does not work
Post by: TelePlay on December 31, 2017, 01:40:51 PM
Yes, one image of several that is too large will do that. The software looks at every image before posting so if the first 3 of 5 are okay, the 4th is too large and the 5 is fine, none will be allowed to upload.

Definitely a frequency ringer, the large, adjustable clapper is one part of tuning the ringer to the desired frequency.
Title: Re: Need help with an ITT Phone that has a Stromberg Carlson ringer that does not work
Post by: Badge234 on December 31, 2017, 02:42:50 PM
OK, now that I have confirmation that my phone has a frequency ringer, what's next? Is changing the ringer module the only way to have the phone ring or is there another way to coax it to ring? Can it be rewired in some way or can I add something that's not terribly expensive and fairly simple to do? Failing another solution, I will try to find a replacement ringer in or near Montreal (Canada) at a fair price but I have not found one thus far.

Paul
Title: Re: Need help with an ITT Phone that has a Stromberg Carlson ringer that does not work
Post by: LarryInMichigan on December 31, 2017, 03:02:55 PM
Try loosening the set screw and moving the clapper one way or the other and see if the ringer works better.  The position of the clapper will affect the frequency at which the ringer will work, much like a pendulum on a clock.

Finding a replacement ringer should not be terribly difficult in Montreal.  If you look around, you will likely find a junk phone (500, 554, 2500, 2554 and the like) at a yard sale or thrift shop which will have a usable ringer in it.  Also, I would expect that someone here on the forum has a spare that they could supply for a reasonable price.  There are a number of members in eastern Canada.

Larry
Title: Re: Need help with an ITT Phone that has a Stromberg Carlson ringer that does not work
Post by: TelePlay on December 31, 2017, 05:24:26 PM
You need one like this. Two screws holding it in and 4 wires to connect.

     https://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-Electric-Rotary-Phone-Bell-Ringer-C4A-6-57-Single-Phone-use/292364206996

OldPhoneWorks (in Canada) sell them for $15 plus shipping

     http://www.oldphoneworks.com/ringer-500-set.html

There is no way or nothing you can do to get that frequency ringer to work.

If you look around, you may find other suppliers in Canada. $10-20 each is about the current market price for the part.

You could find a junker 500 or similar with a busted case and dial and missing handset to salvage the ringer. Easier to just but a ringer.

Some forum member in you area may have a spare at a good price.
Title: Re: Need help with an ITT Phone that has a Stromberg Carlson ringer that does not work
Post by: Badge234 on January 01, 2018, 08:56:23 AM
OK,

Thanks for your replies. What exactly am I looking for? Is that a CA4 ringer? Are there any other types of ringer that would do (so I can broaden my search parameters)? Besides eBay and maybe Amazon, are there any other sites (keep from the one already provided) where I could find the coveted ringer?

Many thanks to all you helped.

Sincerely,

Paul
Title: Re: Need help with an ITT Phone that has a Stromberg Carlson ringer that does not work
Post by: TelePlay on January 01, 2018, 09:12:27 AM
Yes, a C4A ringer.

It's frame is the same as the ringer currently in the phone so putting it in would be a direct replacement. Just two screws and a post that sticks into a hole on the end opposite the gongs hold the ringer in place.

I don't think Amazon would have these.

Here is an image showing the 3 mounting points.
Title: Re: Need help with an ITT Phone that has a Stromberg Carlson ringer that does not work
Post by: Badge234 on January 01, 2018, 09:44:53 AM
I checked the links provided. The one one eBay does not ship  to Canada. The other one does but the total cost is a little over 28$ USD. That's over 36$ CAD. A little steep I find since I've already paid about 50$ for the phone. I'll look some more but I'm starting to think that finding a junker phone in a yard sale somewhere might be my only other hope. Unless someone here has one at a good price.

Paul
Title: Re: Need help with an ITT Phone that has a Stromberg Carlson ringer that does not work
Post by: LarryInMichigan on January 01, 2018, 12:35:14 PM
Unfortunately, the postage rate for a small package from the USA to Canada is outrageously high.  Even a 2lb package from here to Windsor, ON, 15 miles away from here, is US$15.50!  It's almost cheaper to drive it to there.

My suggestion would be to try moving the clapper and the gongs to coax ringing out of the current ringer while looking online and at yard/estate sales for a junk donor phone.  Something like this: kajiji link (https://www.kijiji.ca/v-repondeur/ouest-de-lile-qc/vintage-telephone/1321832599) would likely do it.

Larry
Title: Re: Need help with an ITT Phone that has a Stromberg Carlson ringer that does not work
Post by: Badge234 on January 03, 2018, 03:15:04 PM
OK Guys,

I'd like to hear you on this. I do have 1986 phone I believe is also a model 500. The ringer looks a lot like the one in the pictures above but  it only has 2 wires coming out of it. Black (to L2) and red (to K). It rings fine in it's original case but if I take it out and install it in my 1967 red phone (the one I want to fix) with the same connections, it won't ring. Can it be done or do I absolutely need a 4 wire ringer module?

Paul
Title: Re: Need help with an ITT Phone that has a Stromberg Carlson ringer that does not work
Post by: poplar1 on January 03, 2018, 03:32:44 PM
2-wire ringer:

Black ringer wire to L1 (not L2)
Red ringer wire to K
Move Slate (Solid Gray) hookswitch wire to A (It is probably on L2). Leave Slate-Yellow hookswitch on L2


===OR===

Black ringer wire to L1
Red ringer wire to K
Run a piece of wire to connect L2 to A
Title: Re: Need help with an ITT Phone that has a Stromberg Carlson ringer that does not work
Post by: Badge234 on January 03, 2018, 03:45:51 PM
Merci/Thank you Poplar!

That did the trick. Ohh that beautiful bell sound.  :)
A pity I had to cannibalize that other phone but all in all, I'm very happy. I like the 1967 red phone better than the 1986 beige phone. Who knows, maybe I'll find another phone or ringer someday to put back in by beige phone.

In the mean time. Problem solved. Thanks to everyone who helped out and gave me advice. Much appreciated!

Paul
Title: Re: Need help with an ITT Phone that has a Stromberg Carlson ringer that does not work
Post by: HarrySmith on January 03, 2018, 09:19:52 PM
I would keep an eye out for a ringer closer to the date of the phone, a 60's ringer with a metal bracket rather than plastic 80's stuff. It will sound better and be more original.
Title: Re: Need help with an ITT Phone that has a Stromberg Carlson ringer that does not work
Post by: Badge234 on January 05, 2018, 01:19:14 PM
I definitely will. I'm guessing they will be harder and harder to come by with prices to match. But who knows...

Thanks again.

Paul