Classic Rotary Phones Forum

Telephone Talk => General Discussion => Topic started by: guitar1580 on January 13, 2020, 04:10:49 PM

Title: Stromberg Carlson orange 500
Post by: guitar1580 on January 13, 2020, 04:10:49 PM
I have a chance to buy an SC 500 in orange.  I seem to recall that we are not permitted to discuss dollar values openly on the forum, but can anyone give me an opinion on how rare or desirable it would be, or difficult to re-sell or not?  I'm not sure of year of manuf. yet, but it is hardwired and in very good condition.

I see that some have sold on ebay, but mostly as "best offer accepted", so you don't really know what it sold for.  The one I'm looking at is priced at a point where I think it's a little too high, so I'm on the fence about it.  If it was Western Electric, I'd go for it because that's what I mostly collect, but I don't even think WE made orange, did they?

Just looking for general opinions

I halfway considered putting some black parts on it, and a couple of Harley Davidson decals on it, and sell it to one of my Harley friends for their garage ... but to me that would kinda ruin a nice vintage phone.

Title: Re: Stromberg Carlson orange 500
Post by: HarrySmith on January 13, 2020, 04:25:39 PM
"Not permitted to discuss dollar values"? I don't know why you think that, but we discuss phone prices & values all the time. That being said I am not familiar enough with selling SC phones to offer an opinion on pricing but I had the same thought you did about making a Harley phone out of an Orange wall phone I have.
Title: Re: Stromberg Carlson orange 500
Post by: paul-f on January 13, 2020, 04:34:00 PM
If it was Western Electric, I'd go for it because that's what I mostly collect, but I don't even think WE made orange, did they?

Orange wasn't a standard WE 500 color, but was made on special order.

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=3831.msg50804#msg50804 (http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=3831.msg50804#msg50804)
Title: Re: Stromberg Carlson orange 500
Post by: guitar1580 on January 13, 2020, 05:01:01 PM
Thanks Harry.  I'm on a lot of forums, and I must have been thinking of one of them, on the price talk.  I'm not very familiar with SC prices either.

Paul, thx, nice orange hotel phone.  The more I see them, the more I want one. 

I'm going to try to get the seller to check inside for dates, and maybe see if she'll do better on the price.  Orange is not my favorite color, but it's a color I don't have ... and the Harley phone idea is always a possibility.  I could do it and make it reversible.  I do have a Harley in the garage, but no phone line.
Title: Re: Stromberg Carlson orange 500
Post by: Key2871 on January 13, 2020, 05:12:31 PM
If it were me, and the price were good I'd do it.
I never had to chance to get anything like that around here.
I could order one and pay dearly for one...

Title: Re: Stromberg Carlson orange 500
Post by: guitar1580 on January 13, 2020, 07:00:45 PM
Yes, it will mostly depend on the price, but I'll try to nab the orange one.

I did get a really good deal locally a couple of days ago on 4 interesting non W/E brand phones that are in great condition, a hardwired cream ITT 500, a brown Southwestern Bell 500, and 2 black AE80s, one of which is Canadian & has an odd third plunger.  I'll do a post on them as soon as I get them cleaned and photographed.

I've been gathering up a few phones to restore on winter weekends, esp after football season ends.  It gets pretty cold and boring around here in Feb & March.
Title: Re: Stromberg Carlson orange 500
Post by: guitar1580 on January 13, 2020, 09:19:27 PM
Does anyone know if they put dates on the Strombergs on components under the housing?  It looks like there could be a date stamp on the base, but it's smeared and not readable.
Title: Re: Stromberg Carlson orange 500
Post by: Jim Stettler on January 14, 2020, 12:13:47 AM
I have been around a long time. I get nailed as far as forum rules. I don't think that is a rule . If it turns out to be I will use my (little) influence to ask why.
That said. I am reading your post for the first time. I will respond with my personal opinion at that time. It is cool that I am defending this post without reading it thru.
However, that is the way to do it in my opinion. My next post will deal with the actual subject.
Jim
Title: Re: Stromberg Carlson orange 500
Post by: Dan/Panther on January 14, 2020, 01:36:18 PM
I wrote a review of the SC and the ITT, Phones,  how they were built, and how they stacked up against WE for quality.
I found that the ITT brand was very much like WE, the SC had many solid state parts not compatible with We components.
Anytime I want an odd color on a phone, I search for ITT.

D/P
Title: Re: Stromberg Carlson orange 500
Post by: Dan/Panther on January 14, 2020, 01:40:13 PM
Here is a link to that thread.

D/P

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=1142.msg14289#msg14289
Title: Re: Stromberg Carlson orange 500
Post by: guitar1580 on January 14, 2020, 02:04:58 PM
Thanks Dan.  That was a good comparison, and good photos.

I agree about the ITT phones.  I bought one a few days ago locally.  It's dated 1980, is hardwired with a fat handset cord.  When I first took the housing off and was checking it out, I was thinking it was built more like the older Western Electrics than the actual Western Electrics were in 1980 time period. 

Josh
Title: Re: Stromberg Carlson orange 500
Post by: Key2871 on January 14, 2020, 02:25:45 PM
I remember when ITT tried to go cheaper by making a plastic base pan. I used to see those in the trash more than anything because if you dropped the phone.. It broke.
Anyone else remember those?
Title: Re: Stromberg Carlson orange 500
Post by: guitar1580 on January 14, 2020, 05:36:50 PM
I've not seen the plastic base, but it sounds like a disaster.

I wanted to acquire one of the GTE Automatic Electric dial phones, and I noticed the newer ones had a plastic base, which didn't seem like a good idea.  I ended up getting an older one dated to 1966 that still had the metal base.
Title: Re: Stromberg Carlson orange 500
Post by: Key2871 on January 14, 2020, 06:45:44 PM
Those didn't make it long. Not even a year. Every one I saw was broken, I've seen one or two in yard sales but I didn't by any because they were junk. Then they went back to metal.
Title: Re: Stromberg Carlson orange 500
Post by: guitar1580 on January 16, 2020, 01:34:23 AM
To update, the lady chickened out on shipping the orange phone, and didn't seem like she wanted to wheel & deal on the price, so the orange SC isn't going to happen.

After seeing Dan's comparison, I'd rather wait and get an ITT anyway.

Josh
Title: Re: Stromberg Carlson orange 500
Post by: Dan/Panther on January 16, 2020, 12:49:10 PM
Glad i could be of some assistance, not my intention to ruin a deal, but Rather to promote what i consider the best choice.
One more thing, YES you will pay a premium for the Orange and the Lime Green 500 clones. But I just could not go without one of each.

D/P
Title: Re: Stromberg Carlson orange 500
Post by: guitar1580 on January 16, 2020, 03:28:38 PM
No problem Dan.  You didn't ruin the deal.  Her not willing to negotiate, and being unsure about packaging it were the issues.  We mutually agreed to call it off.

Title: Re: Stromberg Carlson orange 500
Post by: Vern P on January 17, 2020, 01:36:50 AM
Late on this. I pick orange and lime green phone for retail when I find them.  I have some orange parts and had Richard R. paint some parts I need to make full sets.
Vern
Title: Re: Stromberg Carlson orange 500
Post by: Dan/Panther on January 17, 2020, 01:01:12 PM
Late on this. I pick orange and lime green phone for retail when I find them.  I have some orange parts and had Richard R. paint some parts I need to make full sets.
Vern

Few and far between Vern. I think some of the rarest colors.
D/P
Title: Re: Stromberg Carlson orange 500
Post by: guitar1580 on January 31, 2020, 01:22:04 AM
Update:  I just got an orange ITT 500.  Since the deal fell through on the SC that I originally mentioned, Iíve been watching the ebay auctions.  I snagged this one for $55 plus shipping, which is a little less than the original SC.
 
It is in nice condition, similar to ones Iíve seen for $125 and up.  The downside is Ė after a quick hookup and test, it does not yet function, so I do have a little troubleshooting to do.

I donít think Iíve ever had much more than a bad cord or bad connection on most old phones I've acquired over the years.

Tomorrow I plan on getting out the volt meter and checking the speaker, and checking the cords for continuity, shorts, etc.  If that doesnít turn anything up, I may have to get the schematic and see if it is wired correctly.

I noticed that the ringer only had the red & black wires connected, with the other two not connected.  Thereís also a capacitor wired to the ringer which may not be factory, so it looks like someone has been into it.

The seller had said that it was functioning when it was disconnected years ago.  There is a 30 day free return, but I'm confident that I'll get it working.

Here are the photos, uncleaned, as it arrived.  If anyone sees anything out of place with the wiring, please let me know.

Josh

Also:  I noticed that being 3 years newer than the one in Dan's comparison, '76 as compared to '73, it does not have the potted network.
Title: Re: Stromberg Carlson orange 500
Post by: Vern P on January 31, 2020, 02:22:35 AM
This network is correct for a ITT, the ringer looks odd. The good thing is the 500 is straight forward, but one wire out of place will not let it work. When I have been working on them, I have pulled my hair out, with one wire out of place.
Vern
Title: Re: Stromberg Carlson orange 500
Post by: rdelius on January 31, 2020, 10:34:38 AM
That is a tuned (freq) ringer. It will not work on a standard telephone line.
Title: Re: Stromberg Carlson orange 500
Post by: Dan/Panther on January 31, 2020, 12:31:38 PM
Josh;

The ITT you purchased is a later model, when ITT switched to the circuit board network.
I'm not familiar with the quality of the later models. My Orange and Lime green 500's are dated 72, and 73. I think someone said they switched to circuit board network late 70's or 1980. The reason it does not work, may be in the network. That is a weak spot in the later models.
Looking through some listings and articles, I also found a 73 Lime green SC, with a potted network  ?  There must be many more variations then I have run across before.

D/P
Title: Re: Stromberg Carlson orange 500
Post by: rdelius on January 31, 2020, 02:44:17 PM
What does not work on this telephone ?.The tuned ringer is wired for grounded ringing
Title: Re: Stromberg Carlson orange 500
Post by: Key2871 on January 31, 2020, 03:12:36 PM
What I would do, is pull the ringer replace with a straight line ringer.
Take a known working line cord connect it to L1 and L2 see if you get a dial tone.
If not connect either line wire to RR and to C on the network.
This by passes the hook switch and if you don't get a dial tone it's most likely a bad network.
Using your VOM check the blue/green leads from the dial, for continuity.
If so it's making as it should with the dial at rest.
You can remove the handset try it with another phone set using that same type. If that works. It's looking as though the network is at fault.
I have one that will plug in, if you want it send me a PM. Just pay postage and it's yours.
I also have receiver elements and transmitters of ITT make.
Title: Re: Stromberg Carlson orange 500
Post by: guitar1580 on January 31, 2020, 04:18:45 PM
What does not work on this telephone ?.The tuned ringer is wired for grounded ringing

I really only had a couple of minutes to fool with it yesterday.  I connected it to my test setup (modular jack with alligator clips on the other end), and it's totally dead.  I tried reversing the red & green, and still nothing.

Tonight, I had planned on eliminating the simple things like cords, bad handset speaker, etc.

Key,  Thanks for the info.  I will try that after I eliminate the possibility of bad cords, connections, etc.  ...and thanks for that offer.  I'll let you know if I need any of those parts.

Josh
Title: Re: Stromberg Carlson orange 500
Post by: Key2871 on January 31, 2020, 04:24:49 PM
Polarity reversal would only make a difference on tone dial sets with not polarity guard.
But keep us up on your findings.
Title: Re: Stromberg Carlson orange 500
Post by: Western Bell on January 31, 2020, 06:01:06 PM
What does not work on this telephone ?.The tuned ringer is wired for grounded ringing

Waht does that mean? How do you khnow? Are you saying a freq ringer will work on 20hz if set special way? What's the dif between grounder ringing and what evr the the other type of ringing, not stated by naem other tahn grounded ringing, is it that wont ring the ringer?
Title: Re: Stromberg Carlson orange 500
Post by: rdelius on January 31, 2020, 07:36:55 PM
Thar ringer appears to be a 42 cycle ringer.This is not close to 20 or 30 cycle ringing. A set wired with a grounded ringer will not ring on a standard telephone line which is set up for bridging ringing .Note the ringer is wired with one wire on the yelllow lead. This was grounded in the old days. It can be put with the green lead for bridging but the ringer is still not supposed to respond to any freq other than what it is marked
Title: Re: Stromberg Carlson orange 500
Post by: andre_janew on February 01, 2020, 05:52:57 PM
A C4A from a Western Electric would, most likely, work on this phone.
Title: Re: Stromberg Carlson orange 500
Post by: Key2871 on February 01, 2020, 07:46:31 PM
I may have a 139BA ITT ringer in my box of parts..
In fact I know I do. Just postage, and it's yours.
May not be dates matching but it's ITT!
Title: Re: Stromberg Carlson orange 500
Post by: guitar1580 on February 01, 2020, 09:00:13 PM
Thanks folks.  I'm hoping to get time to fool around with it tonight or tomorrow.

Does you guys know if Western Electric handset elements are interchangeable with ITT? 

Ken, thanks for the offer.  I will most likely get those items from you. 

Josh
Title: Re: Stromberg Carlson orange 500
Post by: Key2871 on February 01, 2020, 09:28:07 PM
Yes, Josh, western eliments are interchangeable with ITT.
If you want any or all just shoot me a PM. And we'll get it rolling.
I just don't  want to throw out more parts, so I'm holding on to this stuff because sooner or later someone can use it.
Title: Re: Stromberg Carlson orange 500
Post by: Key2871 on February 07, 2020, 10:58:37 AM
So Josh, how's your phone coming. Have you got it working yet? I know I'm curious.
Title: Re: Stromberg Carlson orange 500
Post by: guitar1580 on February 07, 2020, 11:33:28 PM
Hey Ken.  Good news about the orange ITT 500.  I just got on here to post the update, and you were actually asking that question while I was working on it.

I broke out the VOM and started testing, and it turns out that it was just a bad red lead on the line wire.  I connected the line wire that I made with alligator clips on one end and and got the dial tone.  It dials, transmits and receives as it should.

There doesn't seem to be any shorts, so the red lead must have gotten broken somewhere inside the outer sheath.  I cleaned the corroded spade, connected it to the meter and jiggled it as much as I could throughout, and could not get it to intermittently connect.  I don't expect that it will be easy to find an orange line cord, so I'm just going to use the yellow wire for now.  This phone likely isn't going to get used much anyway.

It doesn't ring, but I didn't expect it to after you all telling me about the frequency ringer.  Ken, I still want to get those parts, so I'll send you a PM.

If anyone knows anyone who prints out dial centers, I may try to get someone to print me a black card with the Harley Davidson logo on it.

Definitely happy with the phone for the price I got it for, and it is going to clean up real well.  Thanks to everyone for the info.  I'll post a pic after I get it cleaned up.

Josh
Title: Re: Stromberg Carlson orange 500
Post by: Key2871 on February 08, 2020, 10:09:06 AM
Good work finding the problem. Those VOMs come in handy for that type of work.
Yea, if just use the yellow line in the set, like you said finding a line cord in Orange won't be cheap or easy.

Years ago, I had all sorts of those cleaned them up bagged them and sold them just to get rid of them.. But I had no idea they would be so popular. Because they went quick.

I'll get your stuff together in a day or two, and let you know.

Congrats getting that set working! Talk later.