Classic Rotary Phones Forum

Telephone Identification, Repair & Restoration => Telephone Wiring Diagrams => Automatic Electric Wiring Diagrams => Topic started by: deedubya3800 on June 10, 2011, 05:37:03 AM

Title: Installing an AECo mini-network into a WECo D1 Mount
Post by: deedubya3800 on June 10, 2011, 05:37:03 AM
I believe I have the skill to actually put one of these AE networks inside the mount; I just need to know what goes where, and I'm getting (at least seemingly) conflicting information depending on where I go. Any help will be greatly appreciated!
Title: Re: Installing a mini-network in a D1
Post by: dsk on June 10, 2011, 06:14:43 AM
Somthing like this:
(http://www.oldphoneworks.com/images/D/RKW03K28AH5SOJK.JPG)

The picture is from: http://www.oldphoneworks.com/network-mini.html
Just rememberd I had seen it.

dsk
Title: Re: Installing a mini-network in a D1
Post by: deedubya3800 on June 10, 2011, 11:25:19 AM
I've been looking at that diagram and I've been wondering: Should not the yellow wire from the network that goes to BB on the dial also go through the switch hook?

It looks to me like the black wire from the network connects to the red wire from the handset; I can probably use the spare R post to the right of the dial to make that connection, but where shall I connect the green wire from the network to the black wire from the handset?

To answer my own question: Use D161488 connector or #6-32x1/4" round head machine screw & hexnut insulated with electrical tape to connect black handset & mounting cord leads. (This information taken from the chart here (http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/Edisonic/202__685A_sch_w_dial.gif), which seems to play the exact same tune, but with different lyrics.)

Next question: Does the white wire from the network, which connects to L1 (green line wire) really need to also hook up to R on the dial? Seems like it should since the pulses created on the dial need to go to the line.

I just want to hook this up so that it works and doesn't damage anything.
Title: Re: Installing a mini-network in a D1
Post by: dsk on June 11, 2011, 04:54:14 AM
I've been looking at that diagram and I've been wondering: Should not the yellow wire from the network that goes to BB on the dial also go through the switch hook?  
Yes, you are right, this will silence the receiver when going on/off-hook. Use it if you have the contacts there.

It looks to me like the black wire from the network connects to the red wire from the handset; I can probably use the spare R post to the right of the dial to make that connection, but where shall I connect the green wire from the network to the black wire from the handset?
Seems like you have a good solution here too.
 
Next question: Does the white wire from the network, which connects to L1 (green line wire) really need to also hook up to R on the dial? Seems like it should since the pulses created on the dial need to go to the line.
If you don't use it, you may get some noise, this shorts out the printed board during pulsing.

I just want to hook this up so that it works and doesn't damage anything.
I can't see any risk of damaging anything by doing some testing here.

The circuits are only suggestions, and you may probably make a lot variations just as good as this.

Some experience with Siemens telephones would have lead me to other solutions.

dsk
Title: Re: Installing a mini-network in a D1
Post by: dsk on June 11, 2011, 06:20:44 AM
May this help?
Title: Re: Installing a mini-network in a D1
Post by: dsk on June 12, 2011, 04:25:01 AM
When I become absorbed in a thread like this, I cant really get out of it before????
I wake up this morning, thinking, this self-compensating, universal circuit is sold with no manuals. The designer knew how it was intended to be used. Impedance matching, is difficult, and will not extremely important, but limiting the current through  the transmitter may secure a long life, with little noise (static).  

So:
Put an Ammeter in series with the transmitter, when the phone is on the telephone line, and off- hook. The reading should not exceed 25 milliamps. If you have noise (static) from the transmitter, try to put a resistor in parallel, approx 200 ohms will be a nice value to start with. (don't let this current be included in your reading.)
Then if the reading is more than 25 milliamps, add resistor(s) in series until you reach a value at 25 milliamps or slightly less. (still metered through  the transmitter regardless of shunted resistors).

This may not be a very important issue. My guess: The W.E. 500 design was the first considering this, and a lot of other makes has never thought about it at all.

dsk
Title: Re: Installing a mini-network in a D1
Post by: Wallphone on June 12, 2011, 10:13:55 AM
With a lack of extra terminals/tie points inside a D1 some of these mini-network schematics take that into consideration. That is why some used only one hook switch contact. They tried to minimize the the connection of two wires by either twisting them together or with crimp terminals/screws/and tape. There usually is one extra terminal in a D1 opposite the hook switch terminals and this is "R". If you try to cheat and use one the screws that holds the "R" terminal for another tie point, don't forget that these screws have continuity with the D1 housing. If you hook one on the Line wires up to this screw, the next phone call you answer could be a shocking experience. With these mini-networks the Red & Black wire is the same and Blue is not used. Pink= RR, Red & Black=R, Yellow=GN, Green=B, White=C, and Blue=not used. For more info on how these mini-networks are wired see pages 206/207 of the latest edition of Old-Time Telephones.
Doug Pav
Title: Re: Installing a mini-network in a D1
Post by: deedubya3800 on June 12, 2011, 11:20:30 AM
Is the R which is normally used only for manual dial service the only contact with continuity to the D1 housing?

I've also thought of cutting a little plastic tab with a notch on one end that can slide under the R screw and a hole for the Black-to-Green connecting screw on the other end. This will keep the screw and the spades secure from touching any other connections or the body as well as insulate them from the R screw.

And looking at the schematic, it looked to me like the white wire might have been RR and the pink wire C. Did I mix those two up writing them down?
Title: Re: Installing a mini-network in a D1
Post by: Wallphone on June 12, 2011, 11:59:16 AM
The contact terminal "R" itself does not have continuity to the housing but the two mountings screws attaching the terminal to the phone housing does. I have seen some people use one of the mounting screws as a tie point. Making a plastic terminal to go under one of these screws is the way to go. The attached pic is how NOT to do it.
Doug Pav
Title: Re: Installing a mini-network in a D1
Post by: Wallphone on June 12, 2011, 12:04:07 PM
The wire codes that I mentioned earlier were taken from the 1st edition of Old-Time Telephones and not from the drawings already posted.
Doug Pav
Title: Re: Installing a mini-network in a D1
Post by: deedubya3800 on June 27, 2011, 05:46:22 AM
Some of these diagrams I've seen seem to contradict each other, and I have not found a single photograph of one that seems to follow any of the the diagrams I've seen. But I've reviewed the actual Styleline schematics as well as 202 schematics, and I think I see where they all meet together to make the N205 work in a D1. I have one on the way from OPW, and as soon as it gets here, I'm going to get to work and I'll post a definitive answer to this problem and all these other diagrams, photographs, suggestions, and ideas can go in the dustbin. :)

Edit: Looking back, that last line sounds a little disrespectful of all the people who have worked on this before. I actually want to thank everyone who helped. There can be many ways to do something right. This way that I'm offering below seems to me to be the most convenient and dependable, but it may not be the easiest route for everyone.
Title: Re: Installing a mini-network in a D1
Post by: deedubya3800 on June 27, 2011, 04:59:27 PM
Yay! My cords arrove today! I got to work right away on it. I had a little trouble getting all the wires to stay in place as I put the baseplate back on (it took four tries to get it right without shorting anything), but I got it, and now my D1 is a perfect working phone without the need for a subset! :D

This is how I did it:
Title: Re: Installing a mini-network in a D1
Post by: deedubya3800 on June 29, 2011, 05:03:22 AM
Again, I want to thank everyone who helped me with this project! It's amazing that someone thought of this in the first place! I have posted a diagram and a photograph showing how I did it. I feel like I understand it well enough that I can answer any questions. Feel free to ask! :)
Title: Re: Installing a mini-network in a D1
Post by: deedubya3800 on July 16, 2011, 08:51:49 PM
Since I've been using this, I've had the opportunity to also hook up and use a D1/E1 202 with a 684 BA subset and compare the two.

Receiver volume and sound quality is virtually identical. Transmitter volume is ever-so-slightly better using the subset than with the mini-network, but no one has ever reported any trouble hearing me, even when I ask. There is one very noticible difference between them, however: Sidetone with the subset is very natural-sounding, while the mini-network barely provides enough to notice.

Either way, I'm happy with my setup. It looks perfectly good from the outside, and it's totally reversible so it can be refitted with a regular subset in the future if desired. And since I currently have six telephones hooked up in the house right now, it's also beneficial that there is no ringer in this one!
Title: Re: Installing a mini-network in a D1
Post by: antiqueguy on February 05, 2012, 05:51:21 PM
Yay! My cords arrove today! I got to work right away on it. I had a little trouble getting all the wires to stay in place as I put the baseplate back on (it took four tries to get it right without shorting anything), but I got it, and now my D1 is a perfect working phone without the need for a subset! :D

This is how I did it:

I am not sure were the blue wire goes.  Is it grounded to the base or is it attached to the board unused? Next question. I am having trouble seeing were the wire coming from terminal 4 is going and also were the wire from terminal 22 is going.
Title: Re: Installing a mini-network in a D1
Post by: deedubya3800 on February 05, 2012, 06:21:46 PM
Yay! My cords arrove today! I got to work right away on it. I had a little trouble getting all the wires to stay in place as I put the baseplate back on (it took four tries to get it right without shorting anything), but I got it, and now my D1 is a perfect working phone without the need for a subset! :D

This is how I did it:

I am not sure were the blue wire goes.  Is it grounded to the base or is it attached to the board unused? Next question. I am having trouble seeing were the wire coming from terminal 4 is going and also were the wire from terminal 22 is going.

I just saw your picture at http://hullofsorrow.deviantart.com/art/mini-network-283261948 (http://hullofsorrow.deviantart.com/art/mini-network-283261948). It's actually identical to the one I used. The wire from 22 (white on my diagram) goes to R on the dial. The wire from 4 (yellow on my diagram) goes to GN on the hookswitch pile. I would just tape off the end of the blue wire so it doesn't contact anything.
Title: Re: Installing a mini-network in a D1
Post by: antiqueguy on February 05, 2012, 06:33:21 PM
Yay! My cords arrove today! I got to work right away on it. I had a little trouble getting all the wires to stay in place as I put the baseplate back on (it took four tries to get it right without shorting anything), but I got it, and now my D1 is a perfect working phone without the need for a subset! :D

This is how I did it:

I am not sure were the blue wire goes.  Is it grounded to the base or is it attached to the board unused? Next question. I am having trouble seeing were the wire coming from terminal 4 is going and also were the wire from terminal 22 is going.

I just saw your picture at http://hullofsorrow.deviantart.com/art/mini-network-283261948 (http://hullofsorrow.deviantart.com/art/mini-network-283261948). It's actually identical to the one I used. The wire from 22 (white on my diagram) goes to R on the dial. The wire from 4 (yellow on my diagram) goes to GN on the hookswitch pile. I would just tape off the end of the blue wire so it doesn't contact anything.

Some of my other wires are different. I'm still a little bit confused.  Thanks again for your time.
Title: Re: Installing a mini-network in a D1
Post by: deedubya3800 on February 05, 2012, 06:39:00 PM
Yay! My cords arrove today! I got to work right away on it. I had a little trouble getting all the wires to stay in place as I put the baseplate back on (it took four tries to get it right without shorting anything), but I got it, and now my D1 is a perfect working phone without the need for a subset! :D

This is how I did it:

I am not sure were the blue wire goes.  Is it grounded to the base or is it attached to the board unused? Next question. I am having trouble seeing were the wire coming from terminal 4 is going and also were the wire from terminal 22 is going.

I just saw your picture at http://hullofsorrow.deviantart.com/art/mini-network-283261948 (http://hullofsorrow.deviantart.com/art/mini-network-283261948). It's actually identical to the one I used. The wire from 22 (white on my diagram) goes to R on the dial. The wire from 4 (yellow on my diagram) goes to GN on the hookswitch pile. I would just tape off the end of the blue wire so it doesn't contact anything.

Some of my other wires are different. I'm still a little bit confused.  Thanks again for your time.

I'll be glad to help you with it. As long as it can be modified in a completely reversible way, I'm all for it.
Title: Re: Installing a mini-network in a D1
Post by: antiqueguy on February 05, 2012, 06:46:07 PM
Yay! My cords arrove today! I got to work right away on it. I had a little trouble getting all the wires to stay in place as I put the baseplate back on (it took four tries to get it right without shorting anything), but I got it, and now my D1 is a perfect working phone without the need for a subset! :D

This is how I did it:

I am not sure were the blue wire goes.  Is it grounded to the base or is it attached to the board unused? Next question. I am having trouble seeing were the wire coming from terminal 4 is going and also were the wire from terminal 22 is going.

I just saw your picture at http://hullofsorrow.deviantart.com/art/mini-network-283261948 (http://hullofsorrow.deviantart.com/art/mini-network-283261948). It's actually identical to the one I used. The wire from 22 (white on my diagram) goes to R on the dial. The wire from 4 (yellow on my diagram) goes to GN on the hookswitch pile. I would just tape off the end of the blue wire so it doesn't contact anything.

Some of my other wires are different. I'm still a little bit confused.  Thanks again for your time.

I'll be glad to help you with it. As long as it can be modified in a completely reversible way, I'm all for it.

Well some of my wires are connected to different spots.  I'm just all confused.  Is there a diagram somewhere for my set? It seems my phone has wires going to different places then yours regardless of the network.  Do I need to move any existing wires.
Title: Re: Installing a mini-network in a D1
Post by: deedubya3800 on February 05, 2012, 06:58:53 PM
Yay! My cords arrove today! I got to work right away on it. I had a little trouble getting all the wires to stay in place as I put the baseplate back on (it took four tries to get it right without shorting anything), but I got it, and now my D1 is a perfect working phone without the need for a subset! :D

This is how I did it:

I am not sure were the blue wire goes.  Is it grounded to the base or is it attached to the board unused? Next question. I am having trouble seeing were the wire coming from terminal 4 is going and also were the wire from terminal 22 is going.

I just saw your picture at http://hullofsorrow.deviantart.com/art/mini-network-283261948 (http://hullofsorrow.deviantart.com/art/mini-network-283261948). It's actually identical to the one I used. The wire from 22 (white on my diagram) goes to R on the dial. The wire from 4 (yellow on my diagram) goes to GN on the hookswitch pile. I would just tape off the end of the blue wire so it doesn't contact anything.

Some of my other wires are different. I'm still a little bit confused.  Thanks again for your time.

I'll be glad to help you with it. As long as it can be modified in a completely reversible way, I'm all for it.

Well some of my wires are connected to different spots.  I'm just all confused.  Is there a diagram somewhere for my set? It seems my phone has wires going to different places then yours regardless of the network.  Do I need to move any existing wires.

I'm looking at your board and my board, and they do look identical, but they both vary trivially from the diagram. They both have a blue wire, a green wire, and a black wire soldered to the board, plus push-in contacts for the yellow wire (4), pink wire (23), and white wire (22). Since there is no red wire on this board, you can just ignore it on the diagram.

Some of the existing wires are slightly modified from the standard 202 wiring diagram, but not many. For example, the black wire from the handset has to connect to the green wire from the transmission board. I used a piece of plastic to mount a nut and screw together to make that connection without it touching any other wires or the shell of the telephone. Also, there is no subset cord; it is replaced by a line cord from which you will only need the red and green wires. If the line cord has yellow and/or black, they need to be taped off so they don't contact anything.
Title: Re: Installing a mini-network in a D1
Post by: antiqueguy on February 19, 2012, 10:34:20 PM
Yay! My cords arrove today! I got to work right away on it. I had a little trouble getting all the wires to stay in place as I put the baseplate back on (it took four tries to get it right without shorting anything), but I got it, and now my D1 is a perfect working phone without the need for a subset! :D

This is how I did it:

I am not sure were the blue wire goes.  Is it grounded to the base or is it attached to the board unused? Next question. I am having trouble seeing were the wire coming from terminal 4 is going and also were the wire from terminal 22 is going.

I just saw your picture at http://hullofsorrow.deviantart.com/art/mini-network-283261948 (http://hullofsorrow.deviantart.com/art/mini-network-283261948). It's actually identical to the one I used. The wire from 22 (white on my diagram) goes to R on the dial. The wire from 4 (yellow on my diagram) goes to GN on the hookswitch pile. I would just tape off the end of the blue wire so it doesn't contact anything.

Some of my other wires are different. I'm still a little bit confused.  Thanks again for your time.

I'll be glad to help you with it. As long as it can be modified in a completely reversible way, I'm all for it.

Well some of my wires are connected to different spots.  I'm just all confused.  Is there a diagram somewhere for my set? It seems my phone has wires going to different places then yours regardless of the network.  Do I need to move any existing wires.

I'm looking at your board and my board, and they do look identical, but they both vary trivially from the diagram. They both have a blue wire, a green wire, and a black wire soldered to the board, plus push-in contacts for the yellow wire (4), pink wire (23), and white wire (22). Since there is no red wire on this board, you can just ignore it on the diagram.

Some of the existing wires are slightly modified from the standard 202 wiring diagram, but not many. For example, the black wire from the handset has to connect to the green wire from the transmission board. I used a piece of plastic to mount a nut and screw together to make that connection without it touching any other wires or the shell of the telephone. Also, there is no subset cord; it is replaced by a line cord from which you will only need the red and green wires. If the line cord has yellow and/or black, they need to be taped off so they don't contact anything.

I finally got a chance to wire this phone up.  When I finished it would receive calls but not dial out.  I am using at&t uverse but I have a dailgizmo and that has worked before.  I am not sure what I did wrong. Here is the finished wiring picture link. http://hullofsorrow.deviantart.com/art/202-rewire-286075753 Please note blue wire on board has been removed and yellow line wire has been taped off.  Orange wire from board is soldered instead of connected. Picture is available on large view.
Title: Re: Installing a mini-network in a D1
Post by: dsk on February 20, 2012, 05:05:53 AM
If you put in a piece of paper between the pulse contacts of the dial, do you loose the dial tone?
dsk
Title: Re: Installing a mini-network in a D1
Post by: antiqueguy on April 14, 2012, 02:26:46 PM
If you put in a piece of paper between the pulse contacts of the dial, do you loose the dial tone?
dsk

First I would like to apologize for taking so long to reply. And the thank all those that have helped me on this project. To answer your question I do loose the dial tone when slipping a piece of paper between the bottom most pulse contact.   At this point I am also looking into getting a subset box that doesn't have a ringer. Anyone here build/sell these?
Title: Re: Installing a mini-network in a D1
Post by: dsk on April 14, 2012, 04:14:02 PM
I'm not sure why its not working, have you ended up with something like this?
This should work.

dsk
Title: Re: Installing a mini-network in a D1
Post by: dsk on April 15, 2012, 03:25:20 PM
A subset with no ringer could be made of a $3 transformer http://tinyurl.com/88vgkfo
and a capacitor.
Something like this.

dsk
Title: Re: Installing a mini-network in a D1
Post by: oyang on October 25, 2015, 01:54:38 AM
This is how I did it:

I can confirm that this wiring configuration works!

Otto
Title: Re: Installing an AECo mini-network into a WECo D1 Mount
Post by: poplar1 on November 22, 2016, 11:56:36 AM
The only AE mini-network I can find has 3 quick-connect terminals labeled 4, 22 and 23. Does anyone have a diagram showing the equivalent colors on the networks shown here?
Title: Re: Installing an AECo mini-network into a WECo D1 Mount
Post by: unbeldi on November 22, 2016, 12:05:28 PM
The only AE mini-network I can find has 3 quick-connect terminals labeled 4, 22 and 23. Does anyone have a diagram showing the equivalent colors on the networks shown here?

Such as these ?

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=16639.msg172070#msg172070

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=12713.0

Title: Re: Installing an AECo mini-network into a WECo D1 Mount
Post by: poplar1 on November 22, 2016, 02:23:28 PM
Such as these ?

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=16639.msg172070#msg172070

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=12713.0



Not exactly. Those are N-205s. This is an HB-1021 network with 3 quick-connect terminals. However, the one N-205 pictured with fixed wires has 4 next to the yellow wire, 22 next to the white, and 23 next to the pink, so I'll try that.
Title: Re: Installing an AECo mini-network into a WECo D1 Mount
Post by: Jim Stettler on November 22, 2016, 02:48:18 PM
The AE N-205 networks are from stylelines, if that helps.
Jim S.
Title: Re: Installing an AECo mini-network into a WECo D1 Mount
Post by: markosjal on March 07, 2018, 07:14:14 PM
I have updated this diagram to show the proper numers for those networks that do not have wires. Some have spade lug quick connects.

I have also added the spark supression capacitor/resistor module removed from a rotary styleline handset. It should work for dial and hookswitch contacts. This AE unit tucked nicely above the entry for the monting and handset cords, and gave me wires that were just about the right length. Of couyrse this was the best I could figure out and I can not say it is guaranteed to be accurate. It is working in a 202 with mini AE network.

Mark
Title: Re: Installing an AECo mini-network into a WECo D1 Mount
Post by: kleenax on March 08, 2018, 09:47:13 PM
I don't know if this will help, but I did this cross-reference diagram quite some time ago when I was using these little networks more. (.pdf attached)

I also wrote an article for TCI's SingingWires some time ago about mounting one of these into a B1 mount. Must have been around 2006 or so.