Classic Rotary Phones Forum

Telephone Talk => Pay Station Telephones => Northern Electric/Northern Telecom Pay Phones => Topic started by: SteveK on January 25, 2017, 11:28:19 PM

Title: Cord from the handset is cut.
Post by: SteveK on January 25, 2017, 11:28:19 PM
Ok tried searching and could not find, from the handset with braided protective cord is fine but were the wires go into the unit they are cut. Did not see as electrical tape was over it, i really hope there is a way to sodder together or something as taking the handset apart i think will be very difficult. Any sugestions?  Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Cord from the handset is cut.
Post by: AE_Collector on January 25, 2017, 11:31:06 PM
Where are the wires cut, going into the payphone or into the handset? Is it the armored type handset cord or a conventional coil cord?

Pictures would be great!

Terry
Title: Re: Cord from the handset is cut.
Post by: SteveK on January 26, 2017, 07:37:41 AM
They are cut going into the payphone. I will upload a pic tonight. Cord has a metal braiding on it. Metal braiding is not affected.
Title: Re: Cord from the handset is cut.
Post by: Victor Laszlo on January 26, 2017, 08:59:03 AM
The handset cannot be taken apart because the caps are welded during the manufacturing process, to reduce vandalism.

The correct term is "armored cord".

Depending upon how much wire is left, sticking out, you can certainly splice extra wire to each lead to extend them. I would suggest a mechanical splice, because trying to solder the leads, which are made of tinsel, will not work.  Even attempting to splice them with a B-connector or a Scotchlok will be problematical.  Ultimately you will get noise and static... better to replace the h/s and cord.

The entire handset, e/w armored cord, is available occasionally through Ebay and from this company:

https://www.payphone.com/Handsets-and-Handset-Parts/ (https://www.payphone.com/Handsets-and-Handset-Parts/)

There are several on Ebay right now, starting in price from $9.00, searching for the term "armored handset."
Title: Re: Cord from the handset is cut.
Post by: SteveK on February 04, 2017, 11:42:15 PM
Yes Victor after stripping the wires I see what you mean. Didn't believe it until seeing how thin and brittle they are. Any tips on how to unlock the cord so that I can take it off? Also can I use a cord and phone from a 500?
Title: Re: Cord from the handset is cut.
Post by: mentalstampede on February 09, 2017, 10:30:55 AM
Steve,

If I remember correctly the cord is locked into rear board of the phone by means of a setscrew.
Title: Re: Cord from the handset is cut.
Post by: AE_Collector on February 09, 2017, 11:03:48 AM
We haven't had enough info to determine if this is a 3 slot or a single slot Payphone. AE single slots had one of several types of clamps that held the armoured cord into the housing leaving the actual 4 conductor handset cord unrestrained. When the handset is pulled on the armoured cord expands somewhat so the actual cord needs to be able to pull into the armoured cord housing a little to avoid the conductors breaking. If the wires are cut near the end of the armour (within an inch or so) and spliced there, a sharp pull on the handset will attempt to pull those splices into the armour and likely break the splices.

So it depends if this is for display purposes only, gentle use in the owners home or real world use. Even use in the owners home could likely see friends goofing around and pulling on the handset.

Terry
Title: Re: Cord from the handset is cut.
Post by: mentalstampede on February 09, 2017, 11:18:30 AM
Ahh, I just assumed the original poster has a Northern, since this is the NE subforum.

We haven't had enough info to determine if this is a 3 slot or a single slot Payphone.
Title: Re: Cord from the handset is cut.
Post by: andre_janew on February 09, 2017, 12:16:47 PM
I've been wondering if it might be possible to put new spade terminals on the end of the cord and simply reuse it.
Title: Re: Cord from the handset is cut.
Post by: AE_Collector on February 09, 2017, 01:32:05 PM
Ahh, I just assumed the original poster has a Northern, since this is the NE subforum.


Good point, quite likely it is a Northern Payphone, I paid no attention to the board it is posted on.

So it could be three slot, centurion, millennium. I have never thought about it but was the Centurion Northern's first single slot Payphone and not updated until the millennium Payphone? Millennium had a handset with a handset type plug (4P4C) on it that plugged into the circuit board but I assume the Centurion used the conventional handset with spades?

Terry
Title: Re: Cord from the handset is cut.
Post by: SteveK on February 14, 2017, 05:29:38 PM
sorry it is a Northern three slot. allen key worked to loosen off the cord. these wires are super fine. there are four of them. a friend from work who works with fine wiring is going to have a go at putting back together. fingers crossed.

it is for home use only and will have little use. mostly cell phones ae used.....sad to say. i do think though if successful then should be ok as the allen key really held that cord firmly in place.
Title: Re: Cord from the handset is cut.
Post by: SteveK on February 17, 2017, 05:05:39 PM
 OK I am 2 for 2 of getting the handsets apart with no damage. Two phones and four caps taken off. The earpiece caps were the toughest.Can I pull the existing line out and run telephone wire through the armored cord? And what gauge of wire to use? What to use to fish through the armored cord?
I had looked online purchasing and prices from 20 to 50 and then shipping for a replacement handset.
Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Cord from the handset is cut.
Post by: mentalstampede on February 17, 2017, 11:28:07 PM
If the wire that's already in there is long enough, that will be your best bet for pulling new wire.
Title: Re: Cord from the handset is cut.
Post by: SteveK on February 18, 2017, 01:09:37 AM
Ah yes good call. What about the gauge of wire I can use to replace it?
Title: Re: Cord from the handset is cut.
Post by: mentalstampede on February 18, 2017, 10:10:52 AM
Wire size isn't critical. 18ga or so. You need four wires. If you have 4 conductor station cord that would work.
Title: Re: Cord from the handset is cut.
Post by: AE_Collector on February 18, 2017, 10:59:54 AM
You likely meant 22 or 24 gauge station wire. I don't think that 4 - 18 guage wires would fit though the armoured outer cover. A 4 conductor straight mounting cord could likely be made to look original.

Actual tinsel conductors are considered to be something like 30 or 32 guage so anything you can fit in place of the existing conductors will work electrically.

Terry
Title: Re: Cord from the handset is cut.
Post by: Stan S on February 18, 2017, 12:06:38 PM
SteveK
I'm surprised nobody asked why the handset cable was cut. I've got a feeling replacing the handset cable is the least of the problems with that 3-slot.
I'd post pictures of the inside top and bottom of the phone. Let's see if there's anything else that's been 'modified'.
Stan S.
Title: Re: Cord from the handset is cut.
Post by: SteveK on February 20, 2017, 02:53:26 PM
Was told it was cut by bell when they sold them off so that it was not use able. I will up load pics but I think looking at other pics rest is intact.
Title: Re: Cord from the handset is cut.
Post by: Victor Laszlo on February 20, 2017, 04:38:14 PM
You will not get 4 #18 wires through that shield.  Four #26 might fit.  Try a piece of 4-conductor wire with stranded conductors from your friendly local alarm company.  Or try a modular flat 4-conductor cord with the plugs cut off. If you want the easiest and most authentic solution, get a new armored cord from the place I recommended to you back on Jan 26th.
Title: Re: Cord from the handset is cut.
Post by: SteveK on February 21, 2017, 10:59:19 PM
Thanks Terry 22 gauge fit in nicely. Did not even need to attach to old wires and pull through. I think the next one will go much quicker.
Title: Re: Cord from the handset is cut.
Post by: SteveK on February 23, 2017, 04:36:33 PM
Victor I guess agree to disagree. I prefer to have original handset and cord although I am surprised you never asked how I got them apart. Pics for anyone interested.
Title: Re: Cord from the handset is cut.
Post by: Jim Stettler on February 23, 2017, 05:29:31 PM
Steve,
I am curious on how you got the handset open. The caps should be  "ultrasonically welded" (I think this means the threads are "melted" after assembly).
I notice this has a black handset. I have been told that black payphone handsets are for indoor locations and the dark gray handsets are for outdoor locations (per SW Bell installer). The reason is that black handsets can get too hot to hold if they are in the sun.

JMO,
Jim S.
Title: Re: Cord from the handset is cut.
Post by: SteveK on February 23, 2017, 07:23:16 PM
Hi Jim

Figured it couldn't hurt if I was going to replace anyways. Treated it like I would with any of my pool stuff I need to take apart. Used a hairdryer on the handset moving the heat around so as to not damage and then tried to unscrew by hand. Had to continue a bit then opened by hand. You could see inside some of the glue. Just lucky on this year of phone not permanently welded I guess . Have done two so far without issue. Will try a couple more.

Hope it helps someone in same situation.
Title: Re: Cord from the handset is cut.
Post by: Jim Stettler on February 23, 2017, 09:08:22 PM
Hi Jim

Figured it couldn't hurt if I was going to replace anyways. Treated it like I would with any of my pool stuff I need to take apart. Used a hairdryer on the handset moving the heat around so as to not damage and then tried to unscrew by hand. Had to continue a bit then opened by hand. You could see inside some of the glue. Just lucky on this year of phone not permanently welded I guess . Have done two so far without issue. Will try a couple more.

Hope it helps someone in same situation.


That could be the standard fix. This is the first "try" I have heard of, and it worked.
Great job,
Jim S.
Title: Re: Cord from the handset is cut.
Post by: AE_Collector on February 23, 2017, 10:15:43 PM
Around here all of the older handsets weren't glued in any way. We used the Payphone handset tools to put the caps on real tightly so they weren't easy to remove. I heard of guys having some sort of glue in the past to use in problem areas.

Newer handsets in the mid 90's or so began to come sealed closed but quite often the Payphone handset tool could still remove the caps. Other times it would break the threads off the handle leaving them inside the caps.

Terry
Title: Re: Cord from the handset is cut.
Post by: mentalstampede on February 24, 2017, 06:18:46 PM
I have a NE G3 handset with glued caps that I was able to open with a little heat and gentle use of a strap wrench. Apparently they used some sort of glue instead of a solvent weld.
Title: Re: Cord from the handset is cut.
Post by: SteveK on February 28, 2017, 06:45:26 PM
Success ! phone is all wired up and running. ....thanks to Vern P for the networks....awesome to deal with and gave lots of help......and John aka Princess phones for his expertise and his wiring .....great setup and thanks for his hospitality. 233g payphone up and running. Thank to all and this great site!