Author Topic: BTMC RTT-56 "Kettle" Phone with Issues  (Read 5102 times)

Offline LarryInMichigan

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BTMC RTT-56 "Kettle" Phone with Issues
« on: February 05, 2015, 03:02:29 PM »
I just received this BTMC "kettle" phone: ebay link.  The seller went to town on packing it, so it arrived safely, but it has issues.  The most obvious one is that it has the wrong handset.  The handset on it is a French Ericsson with a WE F1 transmitter and some sort of receiver which is kept from rattling by a wad of brown paper.  If you look at the picture of the chassis below, you may notice that the hook switch is also missing some parts.  Some contacts are missing.  On the other side, there were three wires which had probably originally been connected to the hook switch.  Two had been soldered together, and the third was just loose.  At lease partially because of this, the ringer did not work.  Also, some genius covered the RTT badge on the front of the phone with gold paint.  One side of the badge is held with a tiny screw and the other side with a rusty nail.

Can someone here post a picture of the hook switch as it is supposed to look?  Does anyone here have a spare proper handset and/or any of the other parts tht i am missing?

Thank You


Larry

Offline Matilo Telephones

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Re: BTMC RTT-56 "Kettle" Phone with Issues
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2015, 06:14:45 PM »
Nice catch, Larry.

Although the decals on the side say Bell, the letter A at the bottom indicates it is made by ATEA rather than bell.

These decals were often put on after they were sold as surplus by RTT.

I can make a picture of the wiring of the hookswitch if you like and may have a spare one.

I do not have a spare handset though. PM me if you are interested in those parts. I have a whole RTT 56 to spare, save for the handset.

My Belgian collector contacts inform me that the standard handset for RTT phones in this era is a version of the WE F1. The Belgian made version of this handset is a little different (inside and the seems on the outside are different), but the model is the same.
You could always put an F1 on as a placeholder and it would look correct.

Both ATEA and BTMC had their own model handset you often see on these models. They both produced this phone for non-RTT clients with their own model handset. RTT phones should have the F1. If they don't, the handset got changed as a repair or when the phone was refurbished.
Groeten,

Arwin

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Offline paul-f

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Re: BTMC RTT-56 "Kettle" Phone with Issues
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2015, 06:41:13 PM »
Larry,
 
Great phone. 
 
While I'm not an expert in BTMC phones, I've always liked this one and some of their wall models.
 
Here are the contacts and handset from mine.
 
Good luck with the restoration.
Visit: paul-f.com         WE 500  Design_Line

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Offline LarryInMichigan

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Re: BTMC RTT-56 "Kettle" Phone with Issues
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2015, 06:52:38 PM »
Thank you.  It seems that one of the leaves of my hook switch broke off, and someone tried to work around the problem by rearranging the wires.  It is interesting to think that this phone may have been made by ATEA.  I have an ATEA "kettle" phone, and it is quite different from this phone in several ways.  I did see that the bottom plates are exactly the same size, so they are interchangeable.  I wonder if the bottom plate from mine may have come from an ATEA version.

Larry

Offline Matilo Telephones

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Re: BTMC RTT-56 "Kettle" Phone with Issues
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2015, 02:57:46 AM »
Do you have pictures of that other Phone, Larry?

The RTT 56 was developed for RTT from an earlier Phone designed by ATEA. This earlier version was introduced in 1938 or so.

It does not have the carrying handle and often has a big earthing button on the front. Could it be one of those?

See here for some pictures of that Phone:

http://www.kulentuur.be/ateamuseum/telefoon_zamac/
Groeten,

Arwin

Check out my telephone website: http://www.matilo.eu/?lang=en

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Offline LarryInMichigan

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Re: BTMC RTT-56 "Kettle" Phone with Issues
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2015, 09:41:54 AM »
I did some more dismantling and cleaning of the phone.  I noticed that there is a 'B' printed on the inside of the shell near the dial (visible in the picture above).  Does that indicate that the shell was made by BTMC?  Also, the capacitor has the "Bell" name printed on it, and the dial is the same type that my Argentinian ITT 2724s have, so those things would suggest that BTMC made this phone, except perhaps for the bottom plate.

The only picture I currently have of my ATEA "kettle" is here: forum link.  I hope to get some better pictures of both phones side-by-side soon.

BTW, the handset which came with this phone is the same type which was used on the French U43, and this one is better looking than the one on my U43 (except that it has "Ericsson Colombes" instead of "PROPRIETE DE L'ETAT" moulded into it), so I plan to reassign it to the U43 and use a WE F1 on the RTT-56.

Thank You


Larry

Offline 19and41

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Re: BTMC RTT-56 "Kettle" Phone with Issues
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2015, 06:53:32 PM »
That's interesting seeing the colors listed in both Flemish and French.  I had forgotten Belgium is a bilingual nation.
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
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Offline LarryInMichigan

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Re: BTMC RTT-56 "Kettle" Phone with Issues
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2015, 10:35:27 AM »
I just reassembled this phone.  The hook switch assembly is missing one of its contacts, so I managed to adapt what was left and rearrange the wiring so that I could make do with two of the three switches.  I added a separate ringer capacitor to eliminate the need for sharing the 1F between the ringer and talk circuits.  I used a spare WE F1 handset and the cords which came to me with the phone, though they are not original.  The RTT badge had been covered with gold paint, so i stripped it and repainted the black background.  The phone works now, but it's appearance is a bit far from museum quality.  I would like to find or print an authentic looking dial center card.  Can someone here point me to a scan of a dial center card which would have been used on a phone like this?

Thank You

Larry

unbeldi

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Re: BTMC RTT-56 "Kettle" Phone with Issues
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2015, 11:38:31 AM »
I just reassembled this phone.  The hook switch assembly is missing one of its contacts, so I managed to adapt what was left and rearrange the wiring so that I could make do with two of the three switches.  I added a separate ringer capacitor to eliminate the need for sharing the 1F between the ringer and talk circuits.  I used a spare WE F1 handset and the cords which came to me with the phone, though they are not original.  The RTT badge had been covered with gold paint, so i stripped it and repainted the black background.  The phone works now, but it's appearance is a bit far from museum quality.  I would like to find or print an authentic looking dial center card.  Can someone here point me to a scan of a dial center card which would have been used on a phone like this?

Thank You

Larry

Nice design details on this phone...  hope you can find a handset some time too.
I always look out for 'tea kettles', especially on the European online sales sites.

The type of dial card is probably very depended on where the phone was installed.
I like those BTMC dials.  This is from the generation of the early Western Electric No 7001 dial for the Rotary System.
Is it a 7019A ?
It's fun to take the spring out and reassemble.

Offline LarryInMichigan

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Re: BTMC RTT-56 "Kettle" Phone with Issues
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2015, 12:13:50 PM »
I don't know what type the dial is.  It is about the same as those in my Argentinian ENTel 2724s.  The spring tension is quite easy to adjust on these.  From what I have found online, most of these came with handsets which looked very much like F1s.  I don't care much about the exact dial center as long as it would have been correct for a phone of this model in Belgium in 1959.

Larry

unbeldi

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Re: BTMC RTT-56 "Kettle" Phone with Issues
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2015, 12:20:30 PM »
I don't know what type the dial is.  It is about the same as those in my Argentinian ENTel 2724s.  The spring tension is quite easy to adjust on these.  From what I have found online, most of these came with handsets which looked very much like F1s.  I don't care much about the exact dial center as long as it would have been correct for a phone of this model in Belgium in 1959.

Larry

Through the historic relation with Western Electric, BTMC and its offsprings had access to the WECo patents legitimately, from what I have read. So the similarity is well founded.

I'll look through my collected pictures of kettles to find a dial card....    Arwin probably has some better ideas and examples.


PS:  after quick perusal  I found ZERO teakettles with a real number card.  One had a copper disk in the center, another a disk with the dial numerals.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2015, 12:30:54 PM by unbeldi »

Offline Matilo Telephones

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Re: BTMC RTT-56 "Kettle" Phone with Issues
« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2015, 05:29:00 PM »
I thought the dial was an AE design, but that may be the case for ATEA-built versions. ATEA was once an AE subsiduary.

I do have on dial card at the moment, to scan.

I have another, but cannot find it right now. I have a scan of that one too. I look for that tomorrow.

Here is the first one.

Should be 3,45 cm diameter.
Groeten,

Arwin

Check out my telephone website: http://www.matilo.eu/?lang=en

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unbeldi

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Re: BTMC RTT-56 "Kettle" Phone with Issues
« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2015, 05:57:59 PM »
Here is a BTMC 7019A, front and back view.

I believe, the progenitor dial to these was the 7001 dial that was originally designed in the 1910s by BTMC/International Western Electric in Anvers for the No. 7 Machine Switching System, or Rotary System. When Western Electric decided on a machine switching system for the US, they decided against the Rotary System, and opted for Strowger switches, initially for the small installations, and for Panel switches for the city installations, instead.

I am not sure yet, how Automatic Electric ended up with a similar looking design, as the early dials on the Strowger systems were very different and very complex mechanically. For the US, the Bell System used initially AE dials, even into the 20s, while they had already designed the D-8083, leading to the No. 1 dial ca. 1916 and No. 2 in 1919. Perhaps they licensed the BTMC design to AE as part of the supply arrangement for Strowger switches in 1919?

In any case, apparently BTMC spread the 7000 design around Europe while supplying telephones in many countries.

On my dial, the model number is clearly stamped.

« Last Edit: March 01, 2015, 06:01:58 PM by unbeldi »