Author Topic: 302 won't dial out  (Read 4079 times)

Offline Thomas

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302 won't dial out
« on: February 07, 2015, 02:59:07 PM »
Hello, Not a collector of phones just an owner of one. We just bought a Western Electric 302. Doing research on many sites I found out how to get the phone to ring, which it would not do. It will receive calls, audio is good, everything seems to work other than the dial tone won't go away when you dial, needless to say we can't dial out. This phone I believe is from 1953. On the inside of the cover in yellow paint it's marked 10 15 53   1. There is the H1 on inside of cover where the line cord goes through. The dial is a 6A  also marked  12-52 next to 6A, is that the date? The handset is an F1. After a couple of days of reading about phones and the dials on them I think and hope that it is a wiring thing. Have not as of yet searched this forum for related questions. Hoping someone can just tell me what I should do. I know someone will ask for pictures, if needed we can. Not savvy at all about ohms, testers, meters and stuff. Am pretty mechanically minded though, I repair and restore manual typewriters which I think can be a whole lot more of a challenge, although right now the phone is winning!!  Thanks

unbeldi

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Re: 302 won't dial out
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2015, 03:23:07 PM »
Welcome!

Your dates analysis is correct.

The most important question before even getting to the phone, is who is your telephone service provider?
Does the service even support rotary dials?

If your provider is an old-fashioned telco, it should work. If it is a voice-over-IP provider, such as your cable TV company, the likelihood is that they only support touchtone phones.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2015, 03:25:47 PM by unbeldi »

Offline Thomas

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Re: 302 won't dial out
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2015, 06:23:57 PM »
We have Verizon, originally New England Telephone. We already have a Western Electric Bell System rotary wall phone that we got a few years ago that works well.It's from the 60's.I rewired it under the direction of a man in Chicago that I was e-mailing.Does that mean the 302 should work if the wall phone does?

Offline TelePlay

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Re: 302 won't dial out
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2015, 06:54:59 PM »
Quote
Does that mean the 302 should work if the wall phone does?

Yes, if you have a 354 or 554 wall phone and it works, the 302 should also work.

Can you take close up pictures of the 302 base and back of the dial showing the wiring connections and layout? That would help members see what the problem may be.

Offline Thomas

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Re: 302 won't dial out
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2015, 07:25:30 PM »
Here are two pictures of the 302, the 6A dial and the base.

unbeldi

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Re: 302 won't dial out
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2015, 07:35:24 PM »
There was a plastic cover over the contacts of the dial, did you take it off?
If it was off already, perhaps that indicates someone else was trying to solve a dial problem before you.

The wires appear to be correctly connected on the dial.  Make sure none is touching any other metal parts.  The terminal BK has two wires on it, one of them, the cloth covered one, seems kind of oriented in a funky way.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2015, 07:59:11 PM by unbeldi »

Offline Thomas

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Re: 302 won't dial out
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2015, 08:36:07 PM »
I took the cover off and have not changed any wires. The two blacks are good, i think it's just the way it's connected to the end piece. No wires touching each other either.

unbeldi

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Re: 302 won't dial out
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2015, 09:15:49 PM »
I took the cover off and have not changed any wires. The two blacks are good, i think it's just the way it's connected to the end piece. No wires touching each other either.

Ok. Good.

Now that you have the cover off already, you have the perfect view to see whether the contacts move correctly when you wind up the dial and then let it go.

When winding up, one contact pair should open, and another next to it should close.  The dial pulse contacts (where the plastic pawl is) should do nothing during this time, but should only take action when you release the finger wheel and let it return to the normal position.

Here is a schematic of the dial.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2015, 09:20:31 PM by unbeldi »

Offline Thomas

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Re: 302 won't dial out
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2015, 07:06:20 AM »
Yes that's what happens. With pall to the left when looking at it, the far right contact opens and one to it's left closes. The plastic cam rotates counter clockwise and the finger also. When dial is released two contacts go back to original places and the finger comes around clockwise and holds against a contact while the cam spins and counts out the number you dialed. You say the wiring looks correct? I found the color diagram on this forum and am going to check to see if my dial is wired the same. Some diagrams I think were for a 5 dial, mine is a 6A.

Offline poplar1

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Re: 302 won't dial out
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2015, 09:16:20 AM »
5H and 6A dials are wired the same.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline Thomas

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Re: 302 won't dial out
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2015, 10:21:39 AM »
Ok. Going to check wiring. Is what i described about the contacts correct? If I dial the number 5 and let it return to rest very slowly I can count 5 times the contacts come together as the cam spins, so that tells me it's working correct. Right?

Offline poplar1

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Re: 302 won't dial out
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2015, 11:05:57 AM »
The dial pulsing contacts (Y and BK) should be closed when the dial is at rest, and as the dial is being wound up. Then they should open and close 5 times for the number 5 dialed.

With the dial at rest, if you manually open the Y and BK contacts, say with a piece of cardboard, the dial tone should go away.

There should be no dial tone (unless another phone is off the hook) if you temporarily unscrew the transmitter cap and remove the transmitter.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2015, 11:12:44 AM by poplar1 »
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline Thomas

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Re: 302 won't dial out
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2015, 11:56:54 AM »
Yes to all. Slipped a piece of paper between contacts like you said and dial tone goes away. Remove transmitter and dial tone goes away. I just realized by dialing on our other rotary that I hear a pulse as it dials and the dial tone goes away, I hear no pulse when I dial the 302 dial and the dial tone stays. I checked all the wiring and everything is where it should be, nothing out of place, or loose.

Offline TelePlay

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Re: 302 won't dial out
« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2015, 12:19:55 PM »
Can you disconnect your wall phone from service (unplug it) and try using only the 302 on the line and let us know if the problem with the 302 persists?

unbeldi

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Re: 302 won't dial out
« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2015, 01:25:35 PM »
Yes to all. Slipped a piece of paper between contacts like you said and dial tone goes away. Remove transmitter and dial tone goes away. I just realized by dialing on our other rotary that I hear a pulse as it dials and the dial tone goes away, I hear no pulse when I dial the 302 dial and the dial tone stays. I checked all the wiring and everything is where it should be, nothing out of place, or loose.

I have the feeling that the dial may simply be too slow.  From your answers it seems there is no wiring fault in the phone.

Please test this way:
Take phone off-hook to get dial tone.  Dial 8, 9 or 0, but keep your finger in the finger hole and help the dial return with very slight positive pressure in the direction of return rotation.  This should speed the return up just slightly.  This has worked for me many times, but it does not always produce proper digits, but at least the exchange should remove dial tone.  It would pin-point the problem area.