Author Topic: Editorial  (Read 3393 times)

Offline Doug Rose

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Editorial
« on: September 19, 2013, 07:22:31 AM »
Let me state: This is the finest club associated with telephone collecting that I have ever been a member.

That being said, I thought I read that a member should not join to sell items only. This has happened in the past with collectors, BUT not a business. It is more than distressing to see a business registering.... yet again. Yes...again, this business registered in the past to dispute something I said about them for shipping celluloid dial covers.

I have my own business, but never try to mix the two of collector and seller. Once in a while someone might ask about a phone and I say I will sell it on eBay. I give more to members as a pay it forward than sell.

I am a collector and that is why I am here.

If you register on the Forum to sell or promote your business or web site that sells....that is just wrong. It should be above in RED so we all know it is a business helping to pay for the Forum.

I have the utmost respect for the Leader of the Pack and love the Forum, but this is just wrong. Yes, I do not like the company. Yes, I would be equally upset in Phoneco-Mary was a member. These companies take advantage of less knowledgeable collectors.

This is for collectors who love telephones. Whether you have one or a room full.

We are collectors!

Just my humble opinion, but this sure hit a nerve....Doug
Kidphone

Offline dsk

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Re: Editorial
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2013, 09:03:45 AM »
I'm not even sure what I want, it looks like classified covers what we need here, and I agree in people should not join this forum to sell phones. On the other hand sometimes I would have liked to get my fingers in some of yous before they were sold at EBay, but that's probably a matter of watching and bidding.  ;)
And by my opinion too this is the best working forum people interested in old telephone stuff.
I may sometimes getting more detailed technical explanations at TCI, but that forum has an less suitable layout.

I do definitely not want have a feeling of spamming in this forum with phone stuff for sale.

dsk
« Last Edit: September 19, 2013, 09:12:50 AM by dsk »

Offline Sargeguy

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Re: Editorial
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2013, 10:01:28 AM »
Mary Knappen is the co-author of a few books on the history of telephones with her husband Ron.  I think her knowledge and experience would be a welcome addition to the forum.  I also welcome the guys from OldPhoneworks.  A lot of us use their products and I welcome the opportunity to provide feedback and hear of new products, etc.
Greg Sargeant
Providence, RI
TCI /ATCA #4409

Offline dsk

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Re: Editorial
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2013, 11:07:15 AM »
Mary Knappen is the co-author of a few books on the history of telephones with her husband Ron.  I think her knowledge and experience would be a welcome addition to the forum.  I also welcome the guys from OldPhoneworks.  A lot of us use their products and I welcome the opportunity to provide feedback and hear of new products, etc.

Mary Knappen are welcome as a member (my opinion) as long as this forum not are used as a free marketing possibility. It is no sharp limit of the difference of education, and information on one side, and marketing on the other.

As you see, I have logos under my postings, and that should be OK for her to put their company logo and address in the same way. Responding with solutions when members are asking for help to solve this or that should be OK too.  But a statement or a thread about we have ....for sale, are not welcome.

dsk

Offline AE_Collector

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Re: Editorial
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2013, 11:07:54 AM »
Speaking as a CRPF member, not as a moderator:

I haven't noticed the offending posts, topics or members and don't have time to go looking at the moment.

In general, thinking of another forum that I visit that has nothing to do with phones, I appreciate having a few members on that forum who clearly state that they are employees of the companies providing the services discussed on that forum.

Now of course there are lots of scenarios where things could go out of control and diminish the value of that forum to everyone but from what I ave seen on that forum, the "employee members" provide clarification and help to other forum members and seem to be careful to not be pushing their products and abusing the forum.

In the case of CRPF I agree that it works real well just as it is now but I would have no problem with a scenario like I just described, a CRPF member who is clearly identified as also being a representative of PhoneCo, OPW, or what ever as long as their function seems to be limited to helping other collectors with finding parts, giving additional info as to the suitability of their parts for a certain restoration and/or helping members who may have a problem dealing with the company.

Again, just my opinion as a CRPF member and making general comments not knowing exactly what is being referred to.

So to sum up in general I agree with Doug's concerns as posted above but do see many instances and possibilities where this would not be a concern for me and potentially a plus for the forum.

Terry
« Last Edit: September 20, 2013, 07:13:34 PM by AE_Collector »

Offline Sargeguy

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Re: Editorial
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2013, 01:23:36 PM »
In the past I have used the CRPF Classified section to sell stuff purely for profit (dial cards, 4-prong jacks, OPW cords) as well as extra stuff I have lying around.  I would not mind seeing an occasional (couple times per month) ad from OPW or PHONECO in the Classifieds section advertising new products or specials (like free shipping on any cord order over $100 hint, hint) especially since there are really only two commercial vendors of old phone parts out there.  If you don't want to see posts like that you can just skip them.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2013, 01:27:21 PM by Sargeguy »
Greg Sargeant
Providence, RI
TCI /ATCA #4409

Offline Dennis Markham

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Re: Editorial
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2013, 05:24:50 AM »
Doug (and all),

I received a nice e-mail from Mike Brown, Manager of Oldphoneworks that accompanied his registration request for he and two others to join the Forum.  I generally don't turn anyone away, period.  His e-mail stated in part:

 I have mandated this is not to be used for advertising, but simply to be more involved with the community and help when we can. Would you be accepting of the three of us participating on the fourms?

That comment removed any question I had as to motive for joining the CRP forum.  There have often been questions from our members about shipping or other concerns relating to OPW.  This seems to be the easiest way for questions to be clarified.  Until I see some offending post that is strictly intended to be advertising I give them the benefit of the doubt.  Whether each of the three individuals that joined are phone collectors themselves is not known.  There have been other collectors (as you mentioned) that seem to have joined simply to post items for sale.  That in itself is not always a bad thing.  It offers something that a club member may want/need that they otherwise would not have known was available.  The original intent was to keep away vendors/sellers from posting simply to advertise their products.  I'd like to keep things headed in the same direction.  For now I do not have a problem with the Oldphoneworks members from joining or displaying their logo as their avatar.

I hope that Mike will continue to participate in the Forum and chime in with pertinent information when appropriate.  I was actually pleased to get his e-mail and registration request.  I don't know Mike or his staff personally and have only dealt with him a couple of times when making an order.  I do not know if they are phone collectors or not.  Perhaps we will discover that in the future.

My take is the same as with any applicant.  They are welcome here until I see indications that there is a ulterior motive to use the forum as a place to advertise.

Offline DavePEI

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Re: Editorial
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2013, 01:51:06 PM »
I would like to welcome Mike, Chris and Jeff to the forum, as well as to Don, who has been a member for quite a while.

Don has been the host for the Canadian Antique Telephone Show and Sale in Kingston for a number of years:

http://www.thewhig.com/2013/09/17/dialing-up-some-history

Good luck in the future!

Dave
« Last Edit: September 20, 2013, 03:19:26 PM by DavePEI »
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Offline wds

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Re: Editorial
« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2013, 02:00:05 PM »
I would also like to extend a hearty welcome to you all.  I've spoken to Mike many times in the past and look forward to their input here on the forum.  I'm sure they will be an invaluable resource.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2013, 02:17:50 PM by wds »
Dave

Offline dsk

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Re: Editorial
« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2013, 02:08:13 PM »
Doug (and all),

I received a nice e-mail from Mike Brown, Manager of Oldphoneworks that accompanied his registration request for he and two others to join the Forum.  I generally don't turn anyone away, period.  His e-mail stated in part:

 I have mandated this is not to be used for advertising, but simply to be more involved with the community and help when we can. Would you be accepting of the three of us participating on the fourms?
....
....

This statement just showing a serious mind, and are more than I would ask for.
Welcome to all of you  :D

dsk

Offline Doug Rose

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Re: Editorial
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2013, 07:14:33 PM »
I am humbled by your response (s). Not quite the same that I have got in PMs. I am wrong. I used to feel an antique phone should be an antique phone. Real! No little ringers in a 202, no need for a tt converter, NO parts that didn't come on it or in it to begin with.

Something you found and made it a treasure by hard work. Brought it back from the dead. Preserved history and all that BS.

Here is what you all are clamoring for, a blue 302. Even better than than it it was designed by Richard Dreyfus before he became a star in Jaws.  A whole bevy of them.

http://www.oldphoneworks.com/1940s/

You have taught me a valuable lesson by your answers. Now I know.

 Send lawyers guns and money...the SH*T has hit the fan.

Kidphone

Offline Sargeguy

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Re: Editorial
« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2013, 11:35:49 AM »
September 06, 2013 Doug Rose wrote:

Quote
I have a pitted B1 I'd love to get chromed. Let me know where you got this done....many thanks...Doug

Doug, could you explain to our membership why plating a phone with a metal that was never used by Western Electric is acceptable but painting a phone in a color that was never used by Western Electric is unacceptable?

Thanks
Greg Sargeant
Providence, RI
TCI /ATCA #4409

Offline ESalter

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Re: Editorial
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2013, 03:58:38 PM »
I've just read this thread and stayed in the background, but I think it's time I chime in.

My other big hobby is railroads.  I'm currently serving as a board member for the Chicago and North Western Historical Society.  The C&NW was merged into the Union Pacific in 1995.  I was 6 at the time.  So what business do I have in a society for a railroad I don't even remember?  The average age of our society's 2000+ members is probably between 40 and 50.  The majority of the membership is interested in older history like the 1960s.  Then there's me that is interested in the 2000s.  The railroad itself was gone, but a lot of remnants were left to be seen, I made it my quest to find as many of those remnants as I could before they disappeared.  There are a great many that feel people with an interest such as mine don't belong in the society, much less in a leadership role.  The fact of the matter is that we're all CNW fans, regardless of our specific interests, and that's what matters.  No one person's interest is more important than another's.

I think that applies here also.  I'm with Doug that a phone is supposed to be original, it's supposed to be real, that's what makes them so neat.  That's just my preference.  I know there are others out there that have a different opinion, and that's fine.  We all like phones, there's no reason we need to go and split ourselves up.  I think OPW and the other dealers have every right to be here.  Would I buy reproduction parts to put on any of my phones?  Absolutely not.  Would a bunch of other people though?  Of course they would.  And THAT is why they belong among us.  If even one person benefits from a post(whatever it may be), then I feel it's worthwhile.

Hopefully that made at least a little bit of sense.  We've got a great group here, I'd hate to see us start pointing fingers at eachother just because our specific interests differ.  Not everything I see on this forum interests me(huge shock, isn't it?), but at the same time, the stuff that interests me the most I'm sure is found to be boring to plenty of others.  I don't feel that's a problem.

---Eric

Offline Doug Rose

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Re: Editorial
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2013, 08:25:09 PM »
September 06, 2013 Doug Rose wrote:

Quote
I have a pitted B1 I'd love to get chromed. Let me know where you got this done....many thanks...Doug

Doug, could you explain to our membership why plating a phone with a metal that was never used by Western Electric is acceptable but painting a phone in a color that was never used by Western Electric is unacceptable?

Thanks
Greg you are mistaken. WE would nickel metal 302s. I have had two with the the H1 in vermilion inside over the nickel. You can find this easier than a past post of mine on one of the collectors web sites. I know John Finder has one.

You can paint your phones any color you want. You are a knowledgeable collector. A less knowledgeable collector might think its real and worth the $300 plus the $80 TT converter.  That is ALL I am saying.

I sense I have offended you yet again. Its my opinion, if you want reproduction parts on your old sticks, more power to you. I choose not to. I can't see non collectors coming on this Forum from a business that sells reproduction telephones for any other reason than to sell reproduction telephones and parts.

Do you think the Green thermopastic OPW sells for $1000 is a fair market price? You are a knowledgeable collector.

I stand by my post and my convictions. It is your collection, please do what you want with it. I will wait for the real deal.

I hope I explained this to "our membership" to your satisfaction. if not, so be it.

It is time I take a time out and let the young blood drive "our membership." You will never find anyone who is more interested in preserving old telephones than me. I hope the passion shows.

It is a hobby....its supposed to be fun....Doug




Kidphone

Offline Sargeguy

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Re: Editorial
« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2013, 09:39:55 PM »
Quote
Do you think the Green thermoplastic OPW sells for $1000 is a fair market price? You are a knowledgeable collector.

I would not pay that much for a green thermoplastic 302, I think the price is too high (I paid $185 for the record).  I would not pay $29.99 for the F-1 receiver cap you are selling on eBay right now, I think the price is too high (I paid $40 for a matching date 1938 302 with celluloid dial plate on the 4H dial).  Both of you have the right to charge whatever you want for your stuff, if it's a fair price, people will buy it, if it isn't, people will not.  I suspect that being a member of this forum has helped your business since you have posted your eBay auctions in the Classifieds.  Ray Kotke sells his stuff from time to time (I wish he'd sell some more of the 122 shells, I need two) and no one has an issue with it as far as I know.  I think you are flogging a dead horse on this issue.  I think what it comes down to is that Dennis says they are welcome so their membership should not be an issue.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2013, 10:03:06 PM by Sargeguy »
Greg Sargeant
Providence, RI
TCI /ATCA #4409