Author Topic: Now I can join the 5302/5304 Party!  (Read 14482 times)

Offline G-Man

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Re: Now I can join the 5302/5304 Party!
« Reply #60 on: November 08, 2013, 03:35:50 PM »
Further-

4. SPECIAL CONSIDERATION

4.01 The following sets may be used in Zones 1 and 2 when
supply conditions make it necessary, but are not required
for transmission reasons:

500-type telephone sets with equalizing network, i.e.,
500A, B, C, D, 501A, B, C, D, etc.

200-type hand telephone sets and coin collectors when
equipped with F4-, F5-, or G1-type handsets and connected
to 685-type subsets.

4.02 The following sets should not be used in Zones 1 and.2,
or at on-premise PBX stations because their uncontrolled
gain may produce undesirable crosstalk and sidetone
effects when used on short loops:

500-type telephone sets without equalizing network, i.e.,
500J, 500K, 501J, and 501K.

200-type hand telephone sets and coin collectors equipped
with F4,, F5-, and G1-type handsets when connected to
other than 687-type subsets.

300-, 400-, 5300-, and 5400-type telephone sets, equipped
with F4-, F5-, and G1-type handsets.

4.03 To obtain the transmission equivalent of a 500-type
telephone set and the necessary equalization on short
loops, coin collectors and  200-type hand telephone sets may be
equipped with G1-type handsets and connected to 685-type
subsets.

4.04 The 4- and 5-type dials should be used only in Zones
1 and 2 because the percentage of break time of the
pulsing contacts may cause dialing failures. Therefore, sets
equipped with 4- or 5-type dials should not be equipped with
F4-, F5-, or G1-type handsets.

4.05 In Zone 5, when an amplifier is indicated, use only
sets equipped with transistorized amplifiers, i.e.,532-,
533-, 535-, and 536-type telephone sets.

4.06 In Zone 5, if transmission complaints due to high
sidetone are received when F4- or F5-type handsets are
used, they should be replaced with 500-type telephone sets.

4.07 Local battery sets normally require two dry cells of
battery, If additional transmitting gain is needed, three
dry cells may be used with F1 transmitter units, but not with
the T1 unit.

4.08 In local battery talking and magneto sets, when an
H-type receiver unit is used the receiver circuit must.
be dry.
 





Offline G-Man

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  • Posts: 1957
Re: Now I can join the 5302/5304 Party!
« Reply #61 on: November 08, 2013, 03:42:16 PM »
I have meant to edit my message to correct a few ocr errors including the reference to the F5 handset in 4.06.

However, I see that I ended up quoting my previous message but I still was able to make the corrections.

Further-

4. SPECIAL CONSIDERATION

4.01 The following sets may be used in Zones 1 and 2 when
supply conditions make it necessary, but are not required
for transmission reasons:

500-type telephone sets with equalizing network, i.e.,
500A, B, C, D, 501A, B, C, D, etc.

200-type hand telephone sets and coin collectors when
equipped with F4-, F5-, or G1-type handsets and connected
to 685-type subsets.

4.02 The following sets should not be used in Zones 1 and.2,
or at on-premise PBX stations because their uncontrolled
gain may produce undesirable crosstalk and sidetone
effects when used on short loops:

500-type telephone sets without equalizing network, i.e.,
500J, 500K, 501J, and 501K.

200-type hand telephone sets and coin collectors equipped
with F4,, F5-, and G1-type handsets when connected to
other than 687-type subsets.

300-, 400-, 5300-, and 5400-type telephone sets, equipped
with F4-, F5-, and G1-type handsets.

4.03 To obtain the transmission equivalent of a 500-type
telephone set and the necessary equalization on short
loops, coin collectors and 200-type hand telephone sets may be
equipped with G1-type handsets and connected to 685-type
subsets.

4.04 The 4- and 5-type dials should be used only in Zones
1 and 2 because the percentage of break time of the
pulsing contacts may cause dialing failures. Therefore, sets
equipped with 4- or 5-type dials should not be equipped with
F4-, F5-, or G1-type handsets.

4.05 In Zone 5, when an amplifier is indicated, use only
sets equipped with transistorized amplifiers, i.e.,532-,
533-, 535-, and 536-type telephone sets.

4.06 In Zone 5, if transmission complaints due to high
sidetone are received when F4- or F5-type handsets are
used, they should be replaced with 500-type telephone sets.

4.07 Local battery sets normally require two dry cells of
battery, If additional transmitting gain is needed, three
dry cells may be used with F1 transmitter units, but not with
the T1 unit.

4.08 In local battery talking and magneto sets, when an
H-type receiver unit is used the receiver circuit must.
be dry.


Offline Contempra

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Re: Now I can join the 5302/5304 Party!
« Reply #62 on: November 08, 2013, 04:08:14 PM »
What's weird?

Taking a piece from a phone and trying to fit the piece on another phone ... I imagine that a ford piece and put this piec on a chevy lol. anyway I understand me .. hahahahaha...

Well, that would be a "Frankenphone"---mixing parts from different manufacturers. On the other hand, what Western Electric was doing was repurposing old Western Electric parts to create a mostly old 5302 phone that looked like the currently produced 500 set.

Sure,  no one want a frankenphone except for certain parts that can be used for an another frankenphone.  That's my point of view. Probably not from the other members. ;)
Denis

Offline poplar1

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Re: Now I can join the 5302/5304 Party!
« Reply #63 on: November 08, 2013, 04:09:21 PM »
That's a lot of info to digest! Could you please cite the source so we can know particularly the year it was written? (It was apparently after 1958 since 600- (Call Director) and 700- (Princess) sets are mentioned.)

Reading between the lines of the first post somewhat:

[EDIT: IN 1965:]
300 and 5300 were to be used only in Zone 2 or less than 10K feet from the C.O....so neither one in Zone 5, even with T1/U1 units.

However,... paragraph 5.02 says that if said 5300 was equipped with a "G-type" (doesn't say whether they mean G1A, GF or both) and produced sidetone problems, then "substitute another set suitable for Zone 2" ---yet the only ones listed here for Zone 2 are 300, 400, 5300 and 5400.

Since you wouldn't be substituting a 4xx/54xx (multi-line) set for a 3xx/53xx single line, the only one on this list is 300/5300--presumably then taking out a 5300 set with G1 and replacing it with a 5300 with F1 [or GF] or with a 302?

[EDIT: IN 1956:]

4.01 gives additional allowed Zone 2 sets: 500D, and  202 (with F4 hs and 685A subset).

4.02 lists sets *not* to be used in Zone 1 or 2, including the 5300 and 300 if either is equipped with F4 or G1 handset (presumably not talking about GF but rather G1 with T1/U1).
Also not to be used: 200  with F4 if connected to other than 687-type subsets [do they mean other than 685?]

So while the first post 1965 BSP says OK to use a 5300 set in Zone 2, and a 5300 with G1 is OK if it doesn't cause problems,  [the 1956 BSP IN PARAGRAPH]4.02 says *not* to use a 5300 with G1. Am I missing something or are these from two different practices?

« Last Edit: November 08, 2013, 05:01:51 PM by poplar1 »
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline poplar1

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Re: Now I can join the 5302/5304 Party!
« Reply #64 on: November 08, 2013, 04:19:51 PM »
What's weird?

Taking a piece from a phone and trying to fit the piece on another phone ... I imagine that a ford piece and put this piec on a chevy lol. anyway I understand me .. hahahahaha...

Well, that would be a "Frankenphone"---mixing parts from different manufacturers. On the other hand, what Western Electric was doing was repurposing old Western Electric parts to create a mostly old 5302 phone that looked like the currently produced 500 set.

Sure,  no one want a frankenphone except for certain parts that can be used for an another frankenphone.  That's my point of view. Probably not from the other members. ;)

Or use the parts and put them back where they belong: on the correct set.
Also, even broken sets sometimes can be "mined" for parts; examples:

---Brass finger wheel on a 302 rebuilt in the 1950s---return it to a 4H or 2A dial

---149B celluloid number plate on a rebuilt 302-------return it to a 1935 or 1936 202.

---D4U or D4W cord on a 302------------------------put it back on a 202 or 151AL--                                                                     
---1938 receiver cap on a rebuilt 1950 302----------hold on to it until you have a 1938 handset with a newer cap

---4H dial or 2A dial converted to 4H on a plastic 302---hold it for a 202
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline Contempra

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Re: Now I can join the 5302/5304 Party!
« Reply #65 on: November 08, 2013, 04:31:41 PM »
you're right David... each piece for each phone, that's my politic . ;)

My point of view is: that the phones who are completely original, not refurbished, are  rare.

I have a Nothern Telecom, a phone wall you can view some pictures in another discussion, is completely original nothing has been changed, Inside like outside the date is 1983... not too old hey !.. :D

Weird lol... j'améliore mon anglais ;D anyway I learn with you all. ;)
« Last Edit: November 08, 2013, 04:37:55 PM by Contempra »
Denis

Offline G-Man

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  • Posts: 1957
Re: Now I can join the 5302/5304 Party!
« Reply #66 on: November 08, 2013, 04:37:54 PM »
My first post is based upon the zoning chart dated as-

Issue 5, October, 1965
     AT&T Co Standard
The other source starting with  4. SPECIAL CONSIDERATION is dated-

Issue 7, March, 1956
     AT&T Co Standard

Offline poplar1

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Re: Now I can join the 5302/5304 Party!
« Reply #67 on: November 08, 2013, 05:05:06 PM »
So, in 1956, 4.02 says not to use a 5302 with a G handset or F4 in Zone 2
But in 1965, it was OK to use a 5302 with G handset in Zone 2 unless it created  too much sidetone or crosstalk.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2013, 05:31:17 PM by poplar1 »
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline poplar1

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Re: Now I can join the 5302/5304 Party!
« Reply #68 on: November 08, 2013, 09:20:00 PM »
My first post is based upon the zoning chart dated as-

Issue 5, October, 1965
     AT&T Co Standard
The other source starting with  4. SPECIAL CONSIDERATION is dated-

Issue 7, March, 1956
     AT&T Co Standard

Thanks for the updated info. Since there is such a discrepancy between these two BSPs, I would like to read further, if you would care to cite the actual section. 
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline david@london

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Re: Now I can join the 5302/5304 Party!
« Reply #69 on: December 03, 2013, 06:02:05 PM »
I have not actually seen a 302 with one.  Did WE build them with the adjuster on later models, or were these also something the refurbishers added to the 302's that were refurbished but stayed as 302's?

here's a metal 302 with ringer adjustment in a sale which just ended, reserve not met.
i notice it doesn't have <-LOUD-- stamped on the base.

http://tinyurl.com/nlhgz6f

pics -

« Last Edit: December 03, 2013, 06:25:38 PM by david@london »