Author Topic: Dial plates found on Western Electric Telephones  (Read 32741 times)

Offline paul-f

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Re: Dial plates found on Western Electric Telephones
« Reply #60 on: April 23, 2014, 09:43:41 PM »
The rubber stamps could have come from one of these kits:
  http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=5557.msg67447#msg67447
Visit: paul-f.com         WE 500  Design_Line

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unbeldi

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Re: Dial plates found on Western Electric Telephones
« Reply #61 on: August 23, 2014, 07:10:58 PM »
Today, another example of those cellulose acetate number plates sold on eBay. It was mounted on a 1934 refurbished 2AB dial.

The dial is marked as refurbished in I-34, having the same date as the number plate. This again makes it very likely that these were installed not by some third party later, but in a refurbishing center.



« Last Edit: August 23, 2014, 07:15:57 PM by unbeldi »

unbeldi

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Re: Dial plates found on Western Electric Telephones
« Reply #62 on: August 23, 2014, 07:24:18 PM »
Here is a side by side comparison of three examples from 1933 and 1934.

The top one is mine (Brooklyn), the middle one is the new one from Washington (Bayview), and the bottom one shows the version after the patents were issued in 1934.

Offline Lewes2

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Re: Dial plates found on Western Electric Telephones
« Reply #63 on: September 15, 2014, 10:19:26 AM »
Paul, IMHO your draft web page with dial faces is outstanding!  And timely for me.  I was searching your site for dial faces and didn't see anything.  Then I came across this thread.  Perfect timing. When does the page go live?

As usual, you've answered a lot of questions I've had about the various configurations I've see on EBAY and other places. 

Chuck

Offline TallahasseeTom

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Re: Dial plates found on Western Electric Telephones
« Reply #64 on: April 14, 2015, 06:44:26 PM »
 RE: 149b dial plate listed above by Paul-f on "Western Electric Dial Plates".  One reply mentioned having the 149b as shown above. I have that also right in front of me. However, a web site I saw last night shows that same one as a 132b notched. That site said the 132b could be notchless or notched.  Mention is made of the 132 has having the 3 prongs on back of course. The 149b  II36  dial plate I just looked at on a B1/202/AB does not have the three prongs.

So, are the the three prongs on the back a major difference between a 132 and 149 plate?  Mention was made of "catalog error" in the 149 diagrams. Perhaps the transition period was not as sharp as imagined, perhaps a late 132 did resemble an early 149.  The "132" I seem to have is like the other corresponder's, no numbers on back(or on front). Thanks.

Offline Jack Ryan

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Re: Dial plates found on Western Electric Telephones
« Reply #65 on: April 14, 2015, 07:04:44 PM »
As I understand it, the catalogue image shown in Paul's post

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=10624.msg123066#msg123066

Contains an error. The 149B numberplate should be the same style as the other 149 plates. A 132B numberplate, like the other 132 plates, has three pins on the rear. 132 number plates were originally un-notched for the #2 dial but were later notched (before enamelling) when the #4 dial was released.

I'm not sure if there was a period (perhaps during the development of the unreleased #3 dial) between the original un-notched 132 and the 149 where only notched 132 plated were manufactured. I have never seen a notched 132 with a number other than 132 (although some are unmarked).

Jack



unbeldi

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Re: Dial plates found on Western Electric Telephones
« Reply #66 on: April 14, 2015, 07:26:23 PM »
RE: 149b dial plate listed above by Paul-f on "Western Electric Dial Plates".  One reply mentioned having the 149b as shown above. I have that also right in front of me. However, a web site I saw last night shows that same one as a 132b notched. That site said the 132b could be notchless or notched.  Mention is made of the 132 has having the 3 prongs on back of course. The 149b  II36  dial plate I just looked at on a B1/202/AB does not have the three prongs.

So, are the the three prongs on the back a major difference between a 132 and 149 plate?  Mention was made of "catalog error" in the 149 diagrams. Perhaps the transition period was not as sharp as imagined, perhaps a late 132 did resemble an early 149.  The "132" I seem to have is like the other corresponder's, no numbers on back(or on front). Thanks.

I also believe that to be an error in the catalog. The 149 type plates closes the large open center area around the shaft to just enough for the shaft to emerge.

The number plates on the No.4 dials on the early D1 handset mountings for 102 and 202 instruments had a large diameter opening with a notch, the "notched 132", ca. 1930-1934.

I believe the first plate that closed the center area was the all-cellulose acetate pate developed by ca. 1931, and having patent dates of 1934 by Cox and Gutberlet of Philadelphia. Their review of prior art mentions the short-coming of the previous design with the wide opening. The C&G plate was apparently tested in the Bell System in various places with dates between Q2-33 and Q4-34. I believe I own the earliest one found to date (II-33). These are extremely rare items.

The 149 plate appears ca. 1934. It may well have copied the closed design from Cox et al. It is inconceivable that the 149B plate would still have the opening in 1935.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2015, 07:30:19 PM by unbeldi »

Offline Jack Ryan

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Re: Dial plates found on Western Electric Telephones
« Reply #67 on: April 14, 2015, 07:39:41 PM »
I believe the first plate that closed the center area was the all-cellulose acetate pate developed by ca. 1931, and having patent dates of 1934 by Cox and Gutberlet of Philadelphia.

Do you know the patent number?

Thanks
Jack

unbeldi

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Re: Dial plates found on Western Electric Telephones
« Reply #68 on: April 14, 2015, 07:44:52 PM »
I believe the first plate that closed the center area was the all-cellulose acetate pate developed by ca. 1931, and having patent dates of 1934 by Cox and Gutberlet of Philadelphia.

Do you know the patent number?

Thanks
Jack

US Patent 1933315--Cox and Gutberlet 1934
US Patent 1963439--Gutberlet and Cox 1934

Here you go:


Offline Jack Ryan

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Re: Dial plates found on Western Electric Telephones
« Reply #69 on: April 14, 2015, 07:51:27 PM »
Thanks for that.

Jack

unbeldi

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Re: Dial plates found on Western Electric Telephones
« Reply #70 on: April 14, 2015, 08:03:39 PM »
Thanks for that.

Jack

YW.

BTW, these two guys are also responsible for the black cellulose acetate make-up number cards, E-2118, 2119, 2163, 2164 (BSP C37.311 1/11/34), created about the same time.   So, while their all cellulose acetate dial face plates weren't accepted permanently in the Bell System, they had better success with the number card centers.

Offline Jack Ryan

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Re: Dial plates found on Western Electric Telephones
« Reply #71 on: April 14, 2015, 08:28:41 PM »
Of course these days those dial centres are discoloured, hard and lumpy but I suppose over time, that happens to the best of us. :-(

Jack

Offline TallahasseeTom

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Re: Dial plates found on Western Electric Telephones
« Reply #72 on: April 14, 2015, 09:28:37 PM »
It looks like Jack Ryan cleared the 132b question for me. The one I have has the 3 rear pins, a notch for the future/present #4 dial and a large opening with raised border. This one has the "Z" above the horizontal "operator" as does the example incorrectly labeled 149b.  So, the rear 3 pins are indicative of a 132. Now, to find a place for this one. Thank you

Offline Jack Ryan

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Re: Dial plates found on Western Electric Telephones
« Reply #73 on: April 14, 2015, 09:41:22 PM »
Now, to find a place for this one.

May I suggest one of my dials?

Jack

unbeldi

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Re: Dial plates found on Western Electric Telephones
« Reply #74 on: April 15, 2015, 07:38:23 AM »
It looks like Jack Ryan cleared the 132b question for me. The one I have has the 3 rear pins, a notch for the future/present #4 dial and a large opening with raised border. This one has the "Z" above the horizontal "operator" as does the example incorrectly labeled 149b.  So, the rear 3 pins are indicative of a 132. Now, to find a place for this one. Thank you

For the first couple of years the 132 plate for No. 4 dials did not show the letter Z,  presence of the Z on a 132 plate suggests it was likely made from 1932 to 1934.