Author Topic: Date ranges for WE Parts  (Read 42989 times)

Offline poplar1

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Date ranges for WE Parts
« on: March 11, 2014, 09:36:49 AM »
INDEX to date range tables   (unbeldi provided index with click-on links below)

Telephone Types
•Desk stands (candlesticks)
•Hand Telephone Sets (A, B, C, D, E, G handset mountings, 102, 202 telephones) -- Reply #10
•300-type Telephone sets -- Reply #9
•500-type telephone sets -- Reply #82
•554-type wall telephones -- Reply #83
•Princess, Trimline telephones -- Reply #83
•1500 and 2500 series Touch Tone telephones -- Reply #83

Components:
•302 telephone base differences -- Reply #37
•Induction coils -- Reply #48
•Transparent finger wheels -- Reply #87

================================================================
( note:  linked index copied from Reply #199 posted by unbeldi for convenience -- now here in the first and the last post )

INDEX to date range tables

Telephone Types

Components:

================================================================



  Earliest Actual Dates Found: Latest Reported: Latest refurbish date found:
  reported: Earliest: Latest:


________________________________________ ___________
Dial Desk Stands: ("Candlesticks") (not dated before 1929 except for transmitters starting c. 1926)

50-AL.........c. 1919-1925?....
  #549-B receiver cord. #550-B desk stand cord (3-conductor). Two #547-B cords for transmitter
  4-conductor #395-B dial cord ("harness") -- Later called "395-B Switch Cord" (C32.460, i1).
  Patent Dates On Side Or Front:
  --PAT IN USA AUG 16 04 SEPT 13 04 JAN 26 15 JAN 1 18
  or
  --PAT IN USA SEPT 13 04 JAN 26 15 JAN 1 18 MAY 7 18
  or
  Patent Dates on Front Rim: PAT IN USA JAN 26 15 JAN 1 18 MAY 7 18 SEPT 21 20


51-AL.........c. 1925-1930... (shown in 1925 WE Catalog #6)[/color] 229 - 130 (No date stamp before 229)
  --PAT IN USA JAN 26 15 JAN 1 18 MAY 7 18 SEPT 21 20
  --3-conductor D3A deskstand cord --  5  1/2 feet
  --2-conductor R2A receiver cord -- 2  1/2 feet

  --3-conductor D3B Switch Cord ("harness") -- 9 inches

  --T1A transmitter cord -- 9  7/8 inches


51-C

151-AL (conversions only)...c. 1931-1948 C32.401, Issue 1, 6-1-31
  --5-conductor switch cord "harness." Typically, this is a 3-conductor D3B cord, with 2 additional (yellow and blue) conductors wrapped on the outside of the original cord.

151-C

 
152-AB.(conversions only) with head receiver. 1962


2-Type Dials
 

    2A (c. 1920-1930) "Y BK BB W" terminals 841R1243
           "2A" stamped on back, no patent info, unmarked finger stop
                  with no WE markings or patent dates
                  with WE markings on outside rim of dial


   "2A" stamped on finger stop (along with second letter):
           With writing on outside rim of dial:
                  PAT APP FOR
                  Patent dates: AUG 13 12 AUG 24 15 DES MAY 7 18 SEPT 13 21
           With patent dates on back of dial 130 -- 230 430

D-75797 D-75978 with plain finger stop; no "operator" on number plate
       PAT APP FOR on outside rim
      Patent Dates on outside rim
 

Note: 2H, 4H or 5H dials can be used on dial desk stands if BB and R terminals are strapped.


Transmitter:
      323 JAN. 1928
      #329
      337 130440T446T
      635A ("Bulldog" with F1 transmitter unit)
     323>337conversion 143T


Receiver:
      143/144 228--earliest stamped date found; most are undated
      706A (with HA1 receiver unit)

Receiver Cord:
     #549-B (for 50-AL)
     R2A
     R2D II 39



Desk Stand Cord: (from phone to subset)
    #550-B (for 50-AL)
    D3A (for #51-AL and #51-CM) 30 - 32
    D3AK I 55 (twill weave)
    D4U (151-AL, 152-AB)
    D4AN (151-AL, 152-AB)



WALL SETS with separate transmitter and receiver:

    293A
    333A
    533A 230

    633A

Metal Wall Set with dial, separate transmitter and receiver: 1920-1946
  1553A (sidetone)
  with 2A dial
  1653A (antisidetone) II 36 - I 45 -1946
(dates of new sets)
  with 4H dial
  with 5H dial 1939 -


  with 146B induction coil
  with 101-type induction coil III 37


1653 E-F-G-H (harmonic ringers for frequency selective ringing on party lines)
    653H   III 37


  ________________________________________ ________________________________________
Subsets, common battery:

Sidetone:== 3-conductor cord from subset to phone == for 102, 20 AL, 40 AL, 50 AL, 51 AL. (May also be used with 202 or 151AL: Tape and store black conductor in mounting cord or desk stand cord)


212A

295A (oak or walnut).............c.1905
  21-D Condenser:
  2.0 uF.......c. 1905-1914?
  1.0 uF.......c. 1918?- ?


295BP (cow gongs)

334A (steel, exposed gongs)...c.1916-
  6A ringer, 25A gongs, 20 Induction Coil {C31.101, Issue 1, 2-15-33==TCI Library}
 
534A (steel, enclosed gongs)..c. 1920-1930(?)
  With No. 20 Induction Coil and 8A ringer
  With No. 46 Induction Coil and 8A ringer
  With No. 46B Induction Coil and 8A ringer
  With No. 46B Induction Coil and 68A ringer (inverted gongs) c. 1929-1930
  Note: 8A has 29A gongs painted black; 68A uses 29C eccentric gongs (oxidized brass)

584A (brass with Bakelite cover)..c.1930-1943......... 230....I 42
  46C induction coil, 78A ringer

Anti-sidetone: (for 202, 211, 140AL. 151 AL, 152 AB) == 4-conductor cord from phone to subset
434A (conversions only)
  146B induction coil {C31.111, Issue 1, June 1931} (TCI Library)
  101A induction coil {C31.101 Issue 3, July, 1953} (TCI library)


495BP (conversions only)--Cow gongs

634A (Steel) (Conversions only?)

684A (Bakelite cover) II 31 - II 37
  146C Induction Coil 2 31 -
  101-type Induction Coil IV 34 -
  78A ringer II 31 - 1949

634BA (Steel, high impedance ringer) (Conversions only?)

684BA (Bakelite cover, high impedance ringer III 36...12/55
  78JA ringer
  B1A/B1AL ringer

NOTE: The base of a 302 set can also be used as an anti-sidetone subset.
________________________________________ ___________________________

Conversions and modifications:
All 151-AL desk stands are conversions
All 5302s are conversions
All 434A subsets are converted from sidetone 334A subsets.
All 495BP subsets are converted from 295-type (sidetone) such as 295A or 295BP.

Many sidetone 553A wall phones were converted to 653A anti-sidetone.
Many 534A subsets were converted to 634A or 634BA.
Many 584A subsets were converted to 684A or 684BA.

Dials:
2-type converted to 4H:
  with 4H style single contacts
  with Twin (bifurcated) contacts                         R I 41 - 146T 5-48T

Original 4H dials found on remanufactured 302s     I 35 - IV 37
 
4H: twin contacts added:
  straight W contact spring                                                          R II 41 - 841T
  W contact spring with offset                                                   342M - 1-49T


Old Dial Distribution on a small sample of 302s:

Furnished (as found on non rebuilt sets)--other than 5H:

1938: Unmodified 4H (i.e. single contacts)
1939: 2A>4H with single contacts (W terminal next to governor)
1940: 2A>4H--both single contacts and twin contacts (TC)
1941: Unmodified 4H and 2A>4H TC

Examples found on Original (dates matching) Sets

1937: Original 5H dials dated IV 37 found on 11-37 and 12-37 sets
1938: Unmodified 4Hs found: (III 37 on) 2-38 set, (undated on) 3-38, (I 37 on) 4-38.

1939: 2A>4H converted dials--with single contacts found on 302s dated 6/39, 6/39, 8/39

1940: 2A>4H converted dials with single contacts found on 302 dated 12/40.
  2A>4H with twin contacts on 11/40 and another 12/40 set.

1941: 2A>4H converted dials with twin contacts found on 10/41 plastic set;
  4H found on another 10/41 plastic set.

1945: 2A>4H twin contacts found on 12/45 set

Found on remanufactured sets:


2A >4H TC on 7-37/R54
2A>4H TC "146T" on 1-39/11-53A
Unmodified 4H dated I 35 found on 6-47/R54 set

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------




 
« Last Edit: July 17, 2017, 07:29:01 PM by TelePlay »
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline poplar1

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2014, 11:02:21 AM »
Added info:

302 with standard size plungers: oldest I found Nov. 1937

302 baseplate:
  Flat: newest found 7-37 reported 11-37
  With one boss for redesigned condenser mount: oldest I found Nov. 1937; newest 8-38
  With added square boss for inverted 101A induction coil: oldest found 9-38
  With added rectangular boss for condenser: oldest found Jan. 1940

  With 4 holes for ringer mount: newest Feb. 1939
  Without these holes: oldest March 1939


H-1 stamped in metal outside: newest found  6-38
H-1 stamped inside in vermilion: oldest found 12-38  11-38[/s]7-38
                   
« Last Edit: May 10, 2014, 09:26:13 PM by poplar1 »
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline Kenton K

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2014, 05:26:59 PM »
I have a totally flat 302 base plate from 11-37. One without the condenser 'bump'.

Offline poplar1

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2014, 08:32:10 AM »
*Trying to close the gaps on the above in order to update the table. Does anyone have any of the following:

--Any number plates dated II 38, III 38, or I 54
--Number plate dated III 53 with black dot
--Any 4H dial newer than I 38 II 38 (found one dated II 38)
--WE 5H dial later than 1-52 9-52 12-52
--WE 5J dial after 12-52

--Original painted metal 302s--other than black--any date
--Original metal 302 later than 6/46
--Any 1936 or 1937 302 with original dial
--Any Continental or Imperial before 1955 or after 1956

--F1 handset made after 10/44  7/45 and before 4/46
--Black thermoplastic F-1 handset--any dates

--3-conductor 1942-1944 mounting cord (line cord) for 302--cloth cord with cloth covered conductors

--Any rubber jacketed cords before 1946


« Last Edit: December 01, 2014, 09:55:39 AM by poplar1 »
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline poplar1

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2014, 10:59:51 AM »
Does anyone have a 302 made between 1942 and 1944 with original cords?
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline paul-f

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2014, 01:54:17 PM »
Adding 149B II 34, 150B III 38, P-340016 I 54 and 164A IV 75 ...
 
Number Plate:
149-type.............................1934-38........II 34................I 38*
150-type.............................1938-53
Square D.....................................*III 38.............II 40
Rounded D, with Z........................III 40..............II 53

No Z...........................................III 53......IV 53

P-340016............................1952-54 (Black dot)
With Z....................................... ..I 52.................II 53*
No Z.......................................
.....*IV 53..................I 54

164-type....................................
.............II 54........IV 75

Still need II 38 and III 53 (black dot).
Visit: paul-f.com         WE 500  Design_Line

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Offline poplar1

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2014, 08:09:22 AM »
Thanks Paul, Doug and Kenton, who have contributed date info. Also  Greg and Larry. And unbeldi.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2014, 02:04:11 PM by poplar1 »
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline Sargeguy

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2014, 08:21:29 PM »
Do we have dates for when aluminum D-1s were replaced by zinc alloy?
Greg Sargeant
Providence, RI
TCI /ATCA #4409

Offline paul-f

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2014, 09:16:33 PM »
Mountjoy put the transition in 1936, but there has been past discussion of zinc sets dated 1935.
 
It would be interesting to confirm with observations.
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Offline poplar1

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2014, 09:37:08 AM »
Telephone Sets

Recent updates in blue
Dates reported by others in green
Latest refurbish date found in red
[Dates in brackets are based on surrounding dated parts in same phone]

* indicates missing date information


   
                       MANUFACTURE DATES OBSERVED                    LATEST REFURBISH
                                          Earliest --  Latest                                     DATE OBSERVED
                                                                                         
Model or Part Number         

302 Tel Set 1936-1954--Black sets are factory equipped with H1 telephone set mounting, F-type handset including  H3C/H3AG cord, apparatus blank or 4H/5H/6A dial, D2D/D3AL/D3AY mounting cord
       Metal:1936-1946
           Black                    IV 36 -- 6/46                    4/57
           Color (painted metal, painted brown Bakelite handset)
             -4    Ivory          5/39 10/39  --11/41
             -6    Old Brass
             -7    Statuary Bronze
             -8    Oxidized Silver
             -12  Dark Gold     12/40
             -16  Old Rose      3/39
             -18  Dark Blue
             -19  Gray-Green   3/39
             -20  Pekin Red         


              (New, painted metal Ivory, Rose, Blue, Gray-Green, Pekin Red 302s no longer made as of 1-2-41 per C30.111, C30.011  Iss 4--replaced by thermoplastic.)
             

      Plastic 1941-1954
         Black                                                      9/41 -- 12/52              R12-60 A - WCR161 R-7-62  NOTE: 6 26 41 housing found
              Furnished with 5H dial                      10/41 -- 8/52
              Furnished with 6A dial                       11/51 -12/52
         Color
              Furnished with 5J dial                        11/41 - 4-53  (The dials were made in 12-52 or earlier)
              Furnished with 6D dial                          5/53  -1/54             
                                                   
             -4    Ivory                                           11/41 -- 1/54[/color]          Note: 5 20 41 housing reported
             -16  Old Rose                                    10/50 -- 1/54
             -18  Dark Blue                                   10-23-40 handset and housing reported -- 6/53
             -19  Gray-Green                                10/41 -- 4/51
             -20  Pekin Red                                  2/50 -- 4/53
                                          10 10 41 housing found

           
         NOTE: Color thermoplastic 302s were made c. 1941-2 then c. 1949-1954.
         WR-C30.011, Issue 1, 8-5-42 indicates that "the manufacture of colored station sets has been discontinued."
         "The resumption of color 302s was announced in BLR v27, p.43 (January 1949)"
         NOTE: In 1955, the WE repair shops remanufactured 302s in the 500 colors, using molded color thermoplastic housings and painted handsets.
         
>Addendum C32.502, Issue 2, March, 1955 (AT&T Std.), shows 500-series colors for 302s, but only  as two-tone sets. The same information is included in  Issue 8 of C32.502, October 1955.
         


Housing

      Small Plungers With Tel Set Mtg Code on outside over mouse hole:
                 "H1-3"          [IV 36] -- [5-37]*
                 "H1"             [7-37] -- [11-37] [12-37]
      Large plungers
                H-1 stamped outside [11-37] -- [7-38]
                H-1 stamped inside   [7-38] --  11 5 60

Hand Hold
     Metal (painted to match phone)
         With "vents" for ringer  [IV36] -- [10-37]       
         Without "vents"            [10-37] -- [1942]*
     Plastic                             *[1946] -- [1954]

Cord tips for hookswitch and condenser

     SOLDERED:
             hookswitch            [4-37] -- [3/39]
             condenser             [4-37] -- [1/39]
             jumper
     CRIMPED:
            hookswitch             4/39 -- [5/39]
            condenser              [2/39]
            jumper
     
Baseplate
With 4 holes for Ringer Mount   
        Flat                            .IV36 -- 11-37   Note: Cardboard pad under condenser
        1 boss for capacitor mount                11-37 -- 8-38
        Add 2nd boss for inverted ind. coil  9-38 -- 2-39 3-39
Without holes for Ringer Mount
       2 bosses                                           3-39 -- 12-39
       Add 3rd boss for condenser                1-40 --  4-51*
With new steel ringer mount                   *10-526/52 -- 2/54*


ALUMINUM BASEPLATE

             "A" stamped after date:          S-3-47-A11-47A --9-48-A   
                                        Note: "A" was stamped on both baseplate and ringer. The ringers were adjusted at the  factory to function properly with the aluminum base plate. 

             Date only (no "A")     1-49,  5-49-I, 7-49-I
                                           These aluminum bases required a metal adapter  between the ringer and the baseplate.


             
S prefix            S-11-44 S-12-44 -- S-3-47-A
H prefix (on dial)  H-1-46 -- H-8-46
I suffix or prefix            8-49-I -- 10-52-I
                                                                         

Ringer  B1A or B1AL
       
            not dated                                             [4-37 set] -- [4-38]
                vermilion star, not dated                        [12-37] ; [4-38]
                "B1A" stamped in black on frame      [2-37]  ;  4-38
            date stamped in vermilion on ringer coil    6-38 -- 11-55

       40A and 40B brass gongs
            "40 A" stamped in black ink                   [2-37 set]
                                          stamped into gong                     [2/40 ringer]

       41A and 41B gongs
             Brass.                                         [1/41] -- [3/42]
             Steel--painted black                        [S11-44] [S-12-44]  [S-1-45] -- [S-4-45] [S-6-45] [S-7-45] [S-12-45]
             1 brass + 1 painted steel                [S-2-46] -- [S-6-46]
                    41A steel + 41B brass              [5/46]

             Steel--unpainted                             [10/51] -- [10/52]

             "Red striped".                               3/42

Feet
             Rivets                                          2-37 4-37 -- IV 37
             Screws                                        10-37-- 2-54

             Suede
             Wool  (some)                                10/46 -- 5/48
             
             
   

Handset

       E-type  (1936-1937)                                                           Also found on some remanufactured sets including plastic sets

       F-type

                     Handle:
                         "BELL SYSTEM"
                           "Manufactured by Western Electric Company" 11 04 38   49 (4/39)  99 (9/39) -94 [9/44]
                           "Made by Western Electric"                            56 (5/46) - 10 (1/50)

                         Separate screw terminals for connecting handset cord:  3 08 37 -- 49 (4/39) 99 (9/39)
                         Usual screw terminals for cord                                           109 (10/39) -                       

               Bakelite
             Grooveless  Complete list here: http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=10968.msg118965#msg118965
                    Solid Core
                         Black
IV 36 --11/16/37
                         Brown(painted) *59 (5/39) -- 21 (2/41)*
                    Hollow Core--Brown painted: *99 (9/49) -- 124 (12/54)*

             Grooved (Black) (1937-1955)
                    Solid Core                         
                           Date stamped in xmtr cavity 6 03 37 6-12-37*10-25-37 -- 1-9-39
                                                                       *Note: 6 03 37 and 6-12-37 handsets were found on  field trial 302 sets
                           Date code embossed in handle, under receiver cap...
                                                                     19 (1/39) -- 75 (7/45)*
                            Not dated on handle -- [10/45 xmtr and rec units] - S11/45 xmtr/S11 28 45 rec) on 12-45 302
                    Hollow Core  *46 (4/46) -- 1955
            Thermoplastic
                   Color
                         Solid Core          10-30-40 -- 11-3-41
                         Hollow Core        2/ 9 (2/49) -- 2-56
                   Black                                 *    --    *

    F1 transmitter unit                    IV 34 -- 1-73
    HA1 receiver unit                      JUN 2 1937 --  4-56 6-58
    Black Plastic Caps                     6-58P -- 4-60P

F-type handsets were sometimes upgraded to a BA type, which had a HC5 receiver unit and an F1 transmitter unit.

The F4 originally an F1 transmitter unit and a U-1 receiver unit. Later F4s had a T1 transmitter unit and a U-1 receiver unit.


Dial

4H        (4H-type dials were made from 230 -- II38)   I 38 dial found on 3-38 302

     
5H (1936-1952) (Finger wheel and case are painted to match phone)

     "5H" Stamp:
             On right side of governor (upside down)   IV 36 - II 38 IV 38
             On left side of governor                       I 39  III 39  IV 39 - 12-52

      Date Stamp:
            Quarter/Year                IV 36- IV 41
            Month - Year                4(?)-43 - 12-52


     W terminal by governor, single contacts:
              Phenol pulse pawl ("Silent"),                IV 36 -- I 38
             Regular pulse pawl                               III 38 

     W terminal next to Y, twin contacts.
               Phenol pulse pawl                              II 38        
               Regular pulse pawl                             II 38 -- 12-52
   
     Brass color terminal screws   IV 36 -- II 40
     Steel color screws                IV 40 - 12/52

     Long finger stop                    IV 36 -- 6-44 4-45 *
     Short finger stop                  *S-6-45 S7-45--  10-45 H-3-46 -- 12-52
                                                            Short finger stop seen on S-9-45 302F with all matching dates
     
    Brass (?) case                           1-49 - 2-49

     --#10 Catalog (1939): 5J dials with white enamel cases and stainless steel "finger wheels, finger stops and card holder frames" are shown  for ivory, pekin red, gray green, dark blue and old rose 302s.  302s in old brass, statuary bronze, oxidized silver and dark gold continue to have 5H dials with painted finger wheels.
     


5J (1937-1952)
     --With Stainless Steel finger wheel, number card holder, and finger stop...
                                                IV 39 -- IV 40

     --With P-298941 transparent finger wheel and nickel silver finger stop
                                                           II 41 -- 6/42
                 C30.011, Issue 4, 1-2-41, "Colored Station Sets"
                 Thick finger wheel used with X-shaped finger wheel clamp
   
     --With P-372629 transparent finger wheel ....
                                                  4/47 -- 11-52 
                (BSP Addendum C30.011, Issue 1, 12-15-47)


     --With P-344837 transparent finger wheel
                                                     12-52
Note: The P-344837 transparent finger wheel, with hole for a stiff wire or paper clip to remove it, is shown in Addendum  C30.011, Issue 1,  12-17-51. The complete assembly, which includes the P-347999 finger wheel clamp, is coded P43A212.
 
>>>>>>>>1949 ad shows 302s in 9 colors, all with transparent finger wheels
                             
         
6A.......11-51 -- 1952-1970.......with black painted aluminum finger wheel and black case
      plain finger stop 3-52 -- 4-53*
      6 stamped on finger stop
*11-54 -- 3-70

6D........1953-1955.......with P-344837 or P-19B524 clear finger wheel and white case NOTE: Also could be ordered with black cases (per 1957 Graybar catalog)
     plain finger stop..................5-53 -- 1-54*
      6 stamped on finger stop.......*9-54 2-55 -- 12-55
"The 6D dial, which supersedes the 5JB, should be used for replacement purposes on plastic and painted sets  except those in the 500 series." C30.011 Issue 6, Dec. 1953

6AA            9-76 -- 83/03

Note: the P-344837 could also be used on 6D and 7C dials, if the P-19B524 was not available.

Number Plate
149-type (1934-38)  II 34 - I 38*
150-type...1938-53
         150A (numbers and "operator")                       II 38 -- I 51
 
         150B (letters and numbers) 
             Square D  *                                                III 38 -- II 40
             Rounded D, with Z                                     III 40 -- II 53
             No Z                                                         III 53 -- IV 53
         
 
P-340016   1952-54  (Black dot)
           With Z                      I 52 -- II 53
           No Z                         III 53 -- IV::53 -- I 54

164A                                    III 53I 54 -- IV 75
         No 164As found with "Z"
                          "164A" on back             III 53
                          "164A" on front


Note: 150A, 150E, 164A are all listed in BSP Section C34.102, Issue 3, December, 1956, along with 164B (for coin collectors) and 164C-3 (for 5302s). However, by 2/63 the only 150-type not "manufacture discontinued" was the 150E plate with party line letters (C18.005.00 Issue 4).


Handset Cord 302s as originally assembled had H3C, H3AA, or H3AG
   Fabric jacket:
       
                 
      H3C (1937-1957)
               twill weave (1937-1941)   II 37  II 38
                           brass-color restraints          II 38
               basket weave                   III 41   -- 57   
      H3P (Retractile/spring)            III 40 -- III 55
      H3T                                         II 54  
      H3W                                   
      H3AA (Wartime Restrictions--cotton covered conductors)
                                                      I 44.......II 45
   
  Other jacket Rubber: 1938-1941, not for general use; Neoprene 1946-?; standardized in 1949 per BLR May, 1959.
By 1959, PVC had replaced Neoprene.

      H3H                 I 46 -- IV 47
      H3AD               I 48 -- IV 50
      H3AF    (spring)II 51 -- 57
      H3AG              1952 --IV 53 IV 56 I 57
      H3AH              II 55 IV 58 -- I 59
      H3AJ (spring) I 58   IV 58 -- IV 59
      H3AR (spring) IV 60  III 62 --67
      H3AS              I 60 -- 62

Mounting Cord   Original sets have D2D, D3AL, D3AT [WR], or D3AY.  D3AK (found on some thermoplastic color 302s)
  Fabric jacket
     D2D                                  II 38
     D2E (with 283B plug)       III 46
     D2K (Wartime Restrictions -- cotton covered conductors)
                                            IV 43 -  45
     D3AK (found on some thermoplastic color 302s)   
                                            I 49 IV 49 - IV 54
     D3AL               
          twill weave (1937-1941)
          basket weave             IV 41   II 42;  III 46;  52
          twill weave                   IV 55
     D3AM (with 283B plug)      III 49 - I 51
     D3AT (Wartime Restrictions -- cotton covered conductors) 
                                              I 45       

Other jacket (Rubber, neoprene or PVC)
    D3AR.        55 (with 283B plug)
    D3AY          I 49 I 56 III 57
    D3BF               I 58
    D3BK              II 59 -- 60
    D3BP              61 -- III 64 (Has dual cord restraint for use on 500 or 302/5302; idea suggested by a Southern Bell repairman per  B. B. Wingo)
________________________________________ _____________
251 Plastic   4-53
252BW (wall set) 6-56
304 Metal     5-38                                                                          1R  6-59
302ACW      8-53 (black)

354..(M3 tel set mtg) (c. 1946-1956)
             Black                   10/471/48 -- 4/56
             Ivory                   11-54 - 12-55

410-AC (2-line set) 1-42 -- 12-54

5302(conversions only) (1955-1963)  2-6-63 housing found with Bell System markings

            Handset:
                  F1-type
                  GF-type
                  G1
                  F4

            Dial:
               5M dial (converted from 5H) or 6H
               164C number plate:             I 57 -- III 62 I 65
                        Note: when equipped with G1 or F4 handset, it should also have 6-type dial [because of zoning requirements; the 6-type dial is more accurate.]

Multi-line 44x, 46x (1938-1954)
       Metal 440, 460 (no lamps)
       Plastic 440, 444, 460, 464
               5H dial
               6A dial                  2-54 -- 5-54
« Last Edit: July 27, 2017, 04:51:00 PM by poplar1 »
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline poplar1

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  • 102C-6 = "Old Brass" Hand Telephone Set
Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2014, 09:59:28 AM »
________________________________________________________________________
Hand Telephone Sets:

Designed to be used with common battery subset, local battery subset, or local battery talk/common battery signaling subset. These subsets can be either sidetone or anti-sidetone.

Common Battery Subsets:
Sidetone: 534A, 584A
Anti-sidetone: 684A, 684BA, 634A, 634BA, 495BP

Local Battery Subsets:
Sidetone: 315H, 300K
Anti-sidetone: 415H, 400K



  (Est. Date Range) Earliest Reported - Latest Reported Latest Refurb
 
 
Desk Type

Model or Part Number
Early model
D-76869 or A-1 handset mounting
  D-80370 handset
    D-85175 Transmitter
    "D85175 PAT. APP. For in U. S. A." (back); no writing on cone

    "D85175 PAT IN U. S. A. 5-4-26 PAT APP FOR"(back); PROPERTY OF AMERICAN TEL & TEL CO (on cone); "May '27" (side)

  D-80510 Receiver
  "PROPERTY OF AMERICAN TEL & TEL CO" (on receiver cap)

D-85837 handset
  Transmitter FEB '28
  D-85836 receiver

 
  E1A handset (no 129A condenser inside transmitter assembly) including H3A cord (no metal cord restraint). "Some of the handles may be marked D-80370."

  D3G mounting cord (no metal cord restraint)                   AT&T Spec 4810, December, 1927
  D3H mounting cord (requires D-86917 cord fastener)       AT&T Spec 4810


  H3A handset cord (no metal cord restraint)
  H3B handset cord (requires D-86917 cord fastener when used with A1, A2 or A3 handset mounting)
**********************************************************************************

Round Base-- B1A (manual), B1B (dial), 102, 202 hand tel. set
  ORIGINALLY EQUIPPED with 2H-type dial (or 50-H apparatus blank); D-87415 or E1B handset (with 9-line logo, H3B cord, 395-type transmitter, 557-type receiver); D3H fabric covered mounting cord.<

B-1 handset mounting (most are 1928-1930) ROUND BASE [228] - III 32
(not dated before 1929 ("329" 429 earliest found); 1928 model has holes (rather than posts) for cloth cord restraints

Hookswitch:
  2 black domed insulators push single contacts ['28] 329 - 230
  Flat wafer to push single contacts 330 - 430
  2 wheels (similar to those found in early D1 mountings) for single contacts
  Bifurcated contacts found in some remanufactured B1s


2H dial (1928-1932)  -- with 132-type number plate (no notch)
(not dated before 1929)
  patent dates on rim of dial (1928-1929)
  patent dates on back of dial (1929-1932) [329 B1] - III 32
**********************************************************************************

Oval base-- D1A (manual), D1B (dial), 102 or 202
 

  Color of                          Apparatus                            Cord
Apparatus                       Color Number                   Color Number

Black                                   --3                             --9 Regular Brown
Ivory                                   --4                             --4 Ivory
Gray                                    --5                             --5 Gray
Old Brass                             --6                             --10 Dark Brown
Statuary Bronze                    --7                            --10 Dark Brown
Oxidized Silver                      --8                            --5 Gray
Medium Gold                         --11                          --11 Gold
Dark Gold                             --12                          --11 Gold

Ref: BSP: Section C36.101, Issue 2, 7-25-35, Station Cords, All Types.



In 1934, instead of masks, cards in different colors were used:

Number Card:                       Apparatus Color:
E1263-4                                Ivory [-4]
E1263-5                                Gray  [-5]
E1263-6                                Old Brass [-6]
E1263-7                                Statuary Bronze [-7]
E1263-5                                Oxidized Silver [-8]
E1263-11                              Medium Gold [-11]
E1263-11                              Dark Gold [-12]

Ref: C37.311, Issue 3, 1-11-34, Station Number Cards and Card Holders


NOTE: More information on color 202s here:
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=11902.msg126564#msg126564


D-1 handset mounting (1930-1939) -- OVAL BASE

  Aluminum base (1930-1936)
  "D1 WESTERN ELECTRIC MADE IN USA PATENT 1508424 PAT PEND"
      With "P-224756" inside 230 430 - IV 31
      Without "P-224756" marking II 31 - I 32
  "D1 WESTERN ELECTRIC MADE IN USA PATENT 1508424 1788747" I 32 - IV 34 I 35
  "D1 USA" I 35 - II 36

  Zinc base (1936-1939)
  "D1 USA" I 36 - I 39
Note: Patent numbers and "USA" are mutually exclusive.
Baseplate Cover on black D1 mounting:
  Wool [I 31] - [IV 31]
  Suede [I 32]


Hookswitch:
  Single Contacts
  With Dummy contact spring on right 430 - I 31
  No dummy contact spring on right I 32
  Bifurcated contact springs


Dial--Black Sets (As originally furnished)
4H dial (1930-1938)

  Painted case (1930-1934)
  Manufacturing date stamp changed from month to quarter to Roman numeral for quarter  by before I 31

  PATENT DATES ON BACK: AUG 24 15 DES MAY 7 18 SEPT 13 21
  230
  ==OR==
  PATENT NUMBERS ON BACK 1151541 DES 52009 1390679
  I 32 - II 34


  Parkerized case III 34 - II 38

  PATENT NUMBERS ON BACK "1151541 DES 52009 1390679"
 
  132-style notched # plate (1930-1934) (Undated)
  Without Z [230]
  With Z [I 32] - [III 34?]

  Experimental all celluloid plate II 33 - III 34

  149 Type # plate (1934-1938)
  149A
  date on back II 34
  date on front I 35 - IV 37

  149B II 34 - I 38
  date on back
  date on front II 35
- I 38

  149E III 37

Dial for color sets:
  4H with matching case and finger wheel (1930- c.1937)
  (4HB-7 for example had statuary bronze finger wheel and statuary bronze case)
  4J (1937) II 37
  On 4J-type dials "the finger wheel, finger stop and card holder are of stainless steel...and the dial casing is white enameled."
  (BSP Section C34.101, Issue 3, 3-15-37. Station dials, 2,4 and 5 Types, Description and Use. "Reissued to include the 4J type and 5 type dials." >NOTE: The 5-type dials discussed are the 5E and 5H-types. The 5J dial was apparently not yet manufactured.)

  Note: the 4J dial was used only on certain color sets; metallic colors continued to use 4H dials with matching finger wheels.

 
Handset for B- and D-type mountings

  D-87415 (equivalent to E1B)

  E-Type (Dates are only on transmitter and receiver (but not the handle) until 1934)
       E1B (has 395-type xmtr) (1928-1935)
            395 transmitter (PROPERTY OF AMERICAN TEL & TEL CO (on cone) JUNE 1928 - NOV    '28

             395B transmitter 228 -11/35 6/36
              Date stamped in red FEB '31
             Date stamped in blue FEB '31, JUNE '31, SEPT '31, JAN '32

 
        E1E (has 625A xmtr) (1935-1939) - 3 27 39
             625A xmtr..[date on 129A condenser] I 35 II 35 - I 38
                    newly manufactured
                          2 screws for 129A cond II 36 - III 37
                           3 rivets for 129A I 38
                     converted from 395B [9/37?] (date on F1 unit; original dated April '30 as 395B)

  557-type Receiver 228 - IV 40
  557 (PROPERTY OF AMERICAN TEL & TEL CO on cap)
  557B
  Plain cap

  no groove handle (1928-1937)
     Black Bakelite
            unpainted
            painted various colors          -[II 34]
     Brown Bakelite
            Painted various colors


     6-line logo with patent dates (same info as D-87415 hs) [JUN '29 xmtr on 329 B1)
                           Western Electric
                             PAT IN USA
                                 -------[DATES]
                                 -------[DATE] DESIGN
                             PATS APPLIED FOR
                             E1


  9-line logo with patent dates [??] - [FEB '31]*
                                    TRADEMARK
                               Western Electric
                               REG US PAT OFF
                                   PAT IN USA
                           9 15 22    11 10 25   9 22 26
                                 1 3 22 DESIGN
                               PAT APPLIED FOR
                                             E1
                               MADE IN USA


  5-line logo
                            TRADE MARK
                           Western Electric
                          REG US PAT OFF
                                   E1
                            MADE IN USA

 
  red patent numbers inside *[MAY '31] - [MAR '32]
  PAT IN USA 1425977 1560768 1601060 1719645 DES 60180

  white pat. numbers inside [5/34]

  mfr. date inside 834 435 636 - 11 02 37

  1939 logo

  grooved handle (1935-1939) 135 (1/35) - 3 27 39

  no groove caps (1928-1935) [228] - [JUNE 31]
  wide groove caps (1932-1934) [SEPT 31] [Jan '32] - 934 (9/34)
  thin groove caps (1935-1939)
  Date stamped in green inside rec. cap 3 34 - 9 35
  >Date stamp on inside of snuff catcher (mouthpiece)

  F-type
      F1A handset found on original I 39 manual 202A-3F

  Refurbished black 202s
        Many 202s reissued from the WE repair shops from 1939 through the 1950s have F-type handsets. Many have 5H dials and new cords.

Handset Cord
  Fabric Jacket
      H3B (1928-1936) 131 - I 37
      H3C (1936-1957)
  other replacement cords--see 302 section above

Mounting Cord
  Fabric Jacket
      D3H 428 II 32
      D3AK IV 48
      D3AN (Wartime Restrictions) 1943
      D4N
      D4S
      D4T (with 283A plug)
      D4U
           -9 (brown) IV 37 - III 48
           -4 (ivory) - I 56
      D4W (with 283-type plug)
      D4AL (Wartime Restrictions--cotton covered conductors (1942-1945?) - III 44

  Other jacket
      D3AA - I 46
      D4AN I 47 IV 48 - 52
      D4AR (with 283-type plug) III 51 - 54

M1 jumper
  Fabric M1E
  Rubber

Switch Hook
  Single contacts
  Twin contacts (bifurcated)


Continentals and Imperials: 1955-1956--Conversions only. Some Imperials had ivory Tenite handsets. Most handsets, however were black Bakelite, painted to match phone.
 
  Imperial
---gold or silver
  Continental..--ivory, pekin red or green
  Handset F-type-
  F1A
  F4A
  Converted from F1 type [1/55] - [1/56]
  Newly manufactured without holes for rec. contacts 114 (11/54)
  Dial
    4J, 5J--Usually with transparent finger wheels. Some green sets have brushed aluminum finger wheels. White casings.
    6D--transparent finger wheel and white casing.
    >Note: may also have black case dial such as 5H that has been painted to match the phone color.





Hanger type--mounts on side of desk or on wall


101/201 (C-type handset mounting) 430 I 32 - II 35
  39A Dial Mounting
  2H-type dial
  4H-type dial
211/212(G-type handset mtg)(1936-1976?) 8/80
  With 41A Dial Mounting IV 36 I 37*
  With 43A Dial Mounting
  G1 stamped on back IV 36 I 37*
  G1 on front
________________________________________ ________________________________________ __________________
« Last Edit: May 29, 2017, 12:41:24 PM by poplar1 »
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline unbeldi

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #11 on: May 12, 2014, 01:36:38 PM »

6A: ........................................ ..................3-52................3-70
      plain finger stop..................................3-52....................4-53*
      6 stamped on finger stop
................*11-54...................3-70
6D..with P-344837 clear finger wheel.............6-53.................5-55



The range for 6D dials with clear FW may be extended to at least November 1955.
I have a 6D 8-55 with 6-stamped FS and 164A III-55 no Z, and sold a 6D 11-55 w/ 164A IV55 no Z.


Offline unbeldi

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #12 on: May 12, 2014, 06:00:45 PM »
Adding 149B II 34, 150B III 38, P-340016 I 54 and 164A IV 75 ...
 
Number Plate:
149-type.............................1934-38........II 34................I 38*
150-type.............................1938-53
Square D.....................................*III 38.............II 40
Rounded D, with Z........................III 40..............II 53

No Z...........................................III 53......IV 53

P-340016............................1952-54 (Black dot)
With Z....................................... ..I 52.................II 53*
No Z.......................................
.....*IV 53..................I 54

164-type....................................
.............II 54........IV 75

Still need II 38 and III 53 (black dot).

I do believe that I have the missing dotted plate of III 53 without Z, because it is listed in a similar table that I have kept, but I just need to locate this plate...  so hold on.

Offline unbeldi

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #13 on: May 12, 2014, 06:22:14 PM »
Adding 149B II 34, 150B III 38, P-340016 I 54 and 164A IV 75 ...
 
Number Plate:
149-type.............................1934-38........II 34................I 38*
150-type.............................1938-53
Square D.....................................*III 38.............II 40
Rounded D, with Z........................III 40..............II 53

No Z...........................................III 53......IV 53

P-340016............................1952-54 (Black dot)
With Z....................................... ..I 52.................II 53*
No Z.......................................
.....*IV 53..................I 54

164-type....................................
.............II 54........IV 75

Still need II 38 and III 53 (black dot).

I do believe that I have the missing dotted plate of III 53 without Z, because it is listed in a similar table that I have kept, but I just need to locate this plate...  so hold on.

Ok, it's located on a beautiful Oct. 1953 ivory 304 with all dates matching including almost new looking (but washed) silk cords.  The 6D dial of this plate is dated 10-53. The phone came from Redford, MI.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2017, 10:42:14 PM by unbeldi »

Offline BDM

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2014, 06:46:39 PM »
WOW :o A real beauty!!

--Brian--

St Clair Shores, MI