Author Topic: Date ranges for WE Parts  (Read 43014 times)

Offline poplar1

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #105 on: September 24, 2015, 08:48:46 AM »
Did anyone download or print out the table on 500s (shown below) after March, 2015 but before Sept. 8, 2015? All updates made during that time period were lost.

                                                    "Big Ten" Telephone Sets

                                            Rotary       =   500,   554, Princess, Trimline Desk, Trimline Wall
                                            Touch-Tone= 2500, 2554, Princess, Trimline Desk, Trimline Wall


                                                                Manufacture Dates     Refurb or Conversion Date
                                                                Earliest - Latest          Latest      
                                                                   Observed              Observed
500 Type Desk Set

Model and date stamp (black ink)
     Between Front Feet                               10/49 - 3/51
     Below ringer volume control                     9/51 - 8-66
              M/YY or MM/YY
              M-YY or MM-YY                              6-57
  3-58       
     Between vents                                        1-67 - 10-73
     Left side                                                1-74 3-74 - 86072

Refurb date stamp
     Vermilion Ink                                                                                                                R1172C
     Sticker
   12-75

Dial
     7A (Black only)                                     6/50 I - 1/53 I
   
     7C (P-19B524 open center finger wheel)*  5/54 - 5-65    6-65          7C-60 12-62 on 500 D-60 R11-67
      7D-3 (Black only--black finger wheel)     10/54 - 10/64        9-79 (refurbished 500DM)
      9C (P11E007 finger wheel)                     
         9C-x (x=insert color code)                   2-65 - 6-66
         9C (no color code indicated)             1-68  - 4-73
      9CA                                                     
         Metal finger wheel clamp                     4-75 -  3-80 5-81
         White plastic finger wheel clamp           1-82 -  83/03
     *Note: Refurbished sets may have 7C or 7D dials with P11E007 finger wheels                           C/D 500 10-75
      Apparatus Blanks (500C):
                95A                 6-53
                95B

                95C
           
Housing
       Logo 
            "Bell System Made by Western Electric"     
                      Rectangular                       [10-62] - [9-68]
                      Curved sides

            Bell icon + "Western Electric"        [82349] - [83164]  (American
               



Last revision 9-8-15===========

The following itlalicized info was lost on 9-8-15; this this info is from a March, 2015 update.

            AT&T                                           [83313]
Logo on handset
           Western Electric                            [3-67] - [9-68]
           Bell System Property Not for Sale   (C. 1968) - [82210]
           Bell icon + Western Electric          83123
           AT&T                                           [83313]
Ringer
       C2A                                                 11/51 - 2/53
       C4A                                                  8/53
       C4C                                             

1/16/55 The frames on all C4A ringers manufac-
             tured after January 15, 1955 are changed in design so that they
             will not interfere with the free movement of the volume-
             adjusting arm as did the earlier model. (Addendum C31.124, Issue 1, April, 1956)

Baseplate
         black                              10/49 - 12-65
         cadmium plated                8-66 - 85014
       
Feet
         Suede                            11-50 - 3-58       R81-2
         Neoprene (large)              4-59 - 12-62      RF90PA01
         Round with ribs                7-63 - 8-65
         Round smooth                  9-65 - 86072

Network
        425A
        425B
        425E
        4228
        4293
     
                                                                                                                                                                                   
--------------------------------------------------                                                       
BLACK                                                                                                                                                                                                         
           500                               10/49 - 11/50
           500B  (equalizer)
           500T  (terminal block)      3/51 - 1/52   

           500D                   3/52 6/52 -  4-75
                    7-type dial            4-56 -  10-64      R872C
                    9-type dial            2/65 - 4-75       1-72
       
           500DM                                                  R83-5
                    7-type dial
                        metal finger wheel                        500DM 9-79 WN                                                               
                        P11E007 finger wheel
                    9-type dial                     
           CS500DM 1-PTY          82344 - 83264
           500M                            3-60
           500MM                        82057 - 82190                   R84-5
           500D2M Tel. Set Mounting                                    R81-4B
           

      Dial
              Metal Finger Wheel
                   7A                          6/50 I - 1/53 I
                   7D-3                       10/54 - 9-64
              Clear plastic  Finger Wheel
                   9C-3                         2-65 -  3-66
                   9C                          11-70 - 3-73
                   9CA                          4-76 -
                      P11E009 finger wheel
                      With Bell icon        82344
           
   
      Dial number plate
          "OPERATOR" in semi-circle     9/50
          "OPERATOR" in small font    10/50
          "OPERATOR" in larger font

      Handset
             G1A                      10/50 - 11-64
                 --Cord restraints molded in handle      1-56
                 --Cord restraints part of cup
             G3A                      11-64
             G15A
      Cords
             Handset Cord
                    H4BA            III 50
                    H4BD (semi-retractile)                    (C36.101 issue 13, May, 1955)
                    H4BF             II 56
                    H4BH (retractile)                             (C36.101 issue 13, May, 1955)     
                    H4CJ  (spring)
                    H4DU (modular)
                           clear   [4-78]
                           black
                             
             Mounting Cord
                    D3BB            III 50 - 54
                    D3BD (retractile)                                      (C36.101 issue 13, May, 1955)
                    D3BN                62
                    Clear hardwired                                                on 9-75 refurb set
                    Clear modular
      Plungers
                 Black               4-56 - 10-58
                 Clear               7-64
--------------------------------------------------
COLOR
          500D                    4/54 -  5-73             10-75
          500DM                 12-75 - 84054          7-75 - RF93AT07-29 FEB 96 (date on box)
          500DM 1-PTY      82349
          CS500DM           83313 - 85014
          CS500DM 1-PTY  83097 -            RF87WA04 1-PTY
          500MM               82225 - 86072
          500U                  11-58   
          500D2M (Tel. Set Mtg.)                                                         4-80

Dial
             7C                      5/54 - 5-65
             9C-xx.                4-65 - 2-66
                 xx: substitute color code
             9C                     9-68 -
             9CA                                                   
                  P11E007 finger wheel         [4-75]
                  Bell icon on finger wheel     [83164] - [83220]
       

        Handset
             G3A                             10/57
                     6-hole rec. cap
                     7-hole rec. cap
             G15A
        Cords
             Handset Cord
                  H4BG                                                       (C36.101 issue 13, May, 1955)
                  H4BH  (spring)        II 56 (neutral gray) -  IV 56
                  H4BR  (spring)              59
                  H4CJ   (spring)     
                      short grommet        [7-63] - [4-68]
                      tapered grommet    [8-68] - [5-73]

                  H4DU  (modular)
                       clear
                       matching color
                              color plugs     [74] - [2-75]
                              clear plugs
             Mounting Cord
                      D3BG                              (C36.101 issue 13, May, 1955)
                    D3BN                                             61 - 73
                   
                 
Original Colors Offered
Ivory (color code -50)             4/55 - 84175  RF93AT03  29 FEB 96                                                         
                                                                                                                                                           
Green (-51)                             7/55 - 82349  R83-2                                                                     
        Neutral gray cords          9/56 - 8-57 - I 58 (mtg)                                                                                   
        Green cords                    I 58 (hs)                                                                                     

Oxford Gray (-52)                  11/54 - 12/56                                                                                             
        Black dial                      11/54                                                                                                                   
        Gray dial                       12/56

2-Tone Oxford Gray (-52A)     4/53                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                         
Red (-53)                                4/54 - 81196    RF90AT05
        Neutral gray cords            5/55 - 10/55
        Red cords                    12/55 -    8/56

        Black dial                        4/54
        Red dial                          5/55

Brown (-54)                            6/54 - 3/56

Rose Beige (-55)                     4/54 2/55 4/56 6/57
      Neutral gray cords            4/54 - 11/55 - 1-57 (with H4BH dated II 56)
      Beige Cords                      4/56 - 1-57 - 6/57

Yellow (-56)                           5/55 - 85014               
      Neutral gray cords            5/55 - 3/56
      Yellow cords                    5/56 - 85014          RF88IL-10B

      Black number plate
      Yellow Dial Number Plate 5/55

Mediterranean Blue (-57)        5/54 - 7/57
     Black number plate           5/54
     Blue number plate            10/55 -7/57

1957 Colors added
White (-58)                           11/57 - 84045               RF91AT05
     with 7C-58 dial                  11/57 - 1-65
Pink (-59)                             10/57 - 8-73                  7/72
Lt. Beige (-60)                      8-57 3-60 - 78024                  R500 DM RF 91AT 11
Lt. Gray (-61)                       8/57 - 1-60
Aqua Blue (-62)                    10/57 - 78011                 R82-11
            8-56 aqua blue dial observed

1964
Turquoise (-64)                     11-64

Other
Old Gold (-12)
Clear (-29)
Light Gold (-63)

C. 1990 Colors

Ultralight Gray (-265)
Country Blue (-305)                                  RF90AT08, RF91AT05
Report To Admin

"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline unbeldi

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #106 on: March 19, 2016, 04:20:21 PM »
I have an H3AG cord dated I 57, one monthquarter beyond the range.
I can confirm the lower bound of 1952.



Telephone Sets

.
.
.

Handset Cord 302s as originally assembled had H3C, H3AA, or H3AG
   Fabric jacket:
        twill weave (1937-1941)
        basket weave (1942-1957)         
      H3C (1937-1957)                    II 38 46 -- 57
           brass-color restraints          II 38   
      H3P (Retractile/spring)            III 40 -- III 55
      H3W                                   
      H3AA (Wartime Restrictions--cotton covered conductors)
                                                      I 44.......II 45
   
  Other jacket Rubber: 1938-1941, not for general use; Neoprene 1946-?; standardized in 1949 per BLR May, 1959.
By 1959, PVC had replaced Neoprene.

      H3H                 I 46
      H3AD               I 48 -- IV 50
      H3AF    (spring)II 51 -- 57
      H3AG              1952 -- IV 56
      H3AH              II 55 IV 58 -- I 59
      H3AJ               IV 58 -- IV 59
      H3AR...(spring)III 62 --67
      H3AS              I 60[/b] -- 62


« Last Edit: March 19, 2016, 06:46:55 PM by unbeldi »

Offline poplar1

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  • 102C-6 = "Old Brass" Hand Telephone Set
Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #107 on: March 19, 2016, 05:50:52 PM »
I have an H3AG cord dated I 57, one month beyond the range.
I can confirm the lower bound of 1952.



Telephone Sets

.
.
.

Handset Cord 302s as originally assembled had H3C, H3AA, or H3AG
   Fabric jacket:
        twill weave (1937-1941)
        basket weave (1942-1957)         
      H3C (1937-1957)                    II 38 46 -- 57
           brass-color restraints          II 38   
      H3P (Retractile/spring)            III 40 -- III 55
      H3W                                   
      H3AA (Wartime Restrictions--cotton covered conductors)
                                                      I 44.......II 45
   
  Other jacket Rubber: 1938-1941, not for general use; Neoprene 1946-?; standardized in 1949 per BLR May, 1959.
By 1959, PVC had replaced Neoprene.

      H3H                 I 46
      H3AD               I 48 -- IV 50
      H3AF    (spring)II 51 -- 57
      H3AG              1952 -- IV 56
      H3AH              II 55 IV 58 -- I 59
      H3AJ               IV 58 -- IV 59
      H3AR...(spring)III 62 --67
      H3AS              I 60[/b] -- 62



That 1957 date for an H3AG cord is plausible. It was superseded by the vinyl-jacketed H3AJ straight cord. Here is what I stated in another topic:
By 1952,  new black 302s were equipped with  straight neoprene-jacketed cords with rubber conductors. They were coded D3AY for the mounting (line) cord and H3AG for the handset cord. These new cords were also used on remanufactured 302s.

Rubber cords were available starting in 1938, but in very limited use. After the war, neoprene was used instead of rubber.  Black Vinyl-jacketed cords weren't produced until c. 1958.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline unbeldi

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #108 on: March 19, 2016, 06:45:24 PM »
That 1957 date for an H3AG cord is plausible. It was superseded by the vinyl-jacketed H3AJ straight cord. Here is what I stated in another topic:
By 1952,  new black 302s were equipped with  straight neoprene-jacketed cords with rubber conductors. They were coded D3AY for the mounting (line) cord and H3AG for the handset cord. These new cords were also used on remanufactured 302s.

Rubber cords were available starting in 1938, but in very limited use. After the war, neoprene was used instead of rubber.  Black Vinyl-jacketed cords weren't produced until c. 1958.


All that agrees with my observations.
The H3AD is, I think, a rubber cord, but I find it hard to distinguish rubber at this time from the early Neoprene. I think one can tell by their thickness. Neoprene is thinner.   The H3AD is much thicker than the H3AG.
It seems to me, H3AD was only used in refurbishments starting in 1948 until the H3AG arrived, although my last H3AD cord is only dated III 50 (you have IV 50).
So were are still missing the period of 1951 for straight black cords.

Offline poplar1

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #109 on: March 19, 2016, 07:01:54 PM »
Someone who has a bucket full of S-hook restraints salvaged from junk cords could really help us out here with the dates. But the H3AD cords are rarely defective. They have extra cotton wrapped around the conductors. The H3AF spring cords are almost always noisy.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline unbeldi

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #110 on: March 19, 2016, 07:52:00 PM »
D3AY (rubber or Neoprene)

I have several from III 49 I 49  to  I 56


Quote
   D3AY               52 -- 56
« Last Edit: March 19, 2016, 07:56:25 PM by unbeldi »

Offline unbeldi

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #111 on: March 20, 2016, 12:03:05 PM »
What is the oldest date that anyone has seen a 95A apparatus blank on a 500 set?

In 1952,  500 and 501 type sets were redesignated as A/B sets and similarly 500T and 501T sets became J/K sets (e.g.: http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=15756.msg165008#msg165008).

Prior to 1952 there is probably no way to determine whether a set was actually issued with a blank as a manual phone.


hmmm.   probably this phone:  http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=9704.msg103721#msg103721   But there is no way to be sure that the dial blank was original.

« Last Edit: March 20, 2016, 06:30:35 PM by unbeldi »

Offline andre_janew

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #112 on: March 20, 2016, 12:56:15 PM »
I've read about early 500 sets being found with GF handsets.  What reason would there be for this?

Offline unbeldi

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #113 on: March 20, 2016, 12:59:27 PM »
I've read about early 500 sets being found with GF handsets.  What reason would there be for this?

The GF handset was not created until 1955 to make a 5302 set look like a 500-type, while providing the same zoning compatibility with the old 300-series set.

Offline andre_janew

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #114 on: March 20, 2016, 01:04:18 PM »
Then it would probably be a replacement for a broken or defective G-1 handset, perhaps.

Offline unbeldi

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #115 on: March 20, 2016, 10:17:25 PM »
Do you want to add an H3T handset cord, found on 302?

H3T    II 54     cloth, brown -9

I don't know of other colors, have no BSP guidance on this.  C36.101 i13 5505 only lists the H4T in brown and colors, so H3T probably was available in colors too.

Offline poplar1

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #116 on: March 20, 2016, 10:41:08 PM »
As stated in 2.01 (c), the letters have no particular significance; i. e., the choice of T for H3T doesn't imply that it would share any characteristics -- such as availabity of jacket colors -- with the H4T. Notice that the H3AD and H4AD do not share the same jacket material. Also, while some cotton jacketed cords are available in colors, such as H3C, others are not (H4U).



« Last Edit: March 20, 2016, 10:44:55 PM by poplar1 »
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Offline Duffy

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #117 on: March 22, 2016, 05:33:08 AM »
I picked up this 1953 WE 500 with matching numbers. I hope the pictures help with filling in the date ranges.

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=15886.0

CDN Doug
« Last Edit: March 22, 2016, 05:34:50 AM by Autonut »
CDN Doug

Offline poplar1

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #118 on: March 22, 2016, 11:36:42 AM »
I picked up this 1953 WE 500 with matching numbers. I hope the pictures help with filling in the date ranges.

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=15886.0

CDN Doug

It would help to know the code no. and date on the cords (it's on the restraints).
Handset cord -- H4BA? H4BF?
Mounting cord -- D3BB?
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline Duffy

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #119 on: March 22, 2016, 03:31:51 PM »
I took the phone apart again, here is what I found.

Handset cord is a 53 H3BF IV

Mounting cord is a 57 D3BB 25-0

I guess it's not all matching numbers.

CDN Doug
CDN Doug