Author Topic: Date ranges for WE Parts  (Read 42855 times)

Offline JimH

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #120 on: March 22, 2016, 05:29:53 PM »
Not sure if anyone has ever covered why they started stamping dates on the bottom of the "500"s, and not the 302s.  From about 1950 forward, all sets were date-stamped on the bottom. I wonder if it was a throw-back to when all of the desk sets were had fabric or leather covered bottoms?

Jim
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Offline unbeldi

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #121 on: March 22, 2016, 05:39:55 PM »
Not sure if anyone has ever covered why they started stamping dates on the bottom of the "500"s, and not the 302s.  From about 1950 forward, all sets were date-stamped on the bottom. I wonder if it was a throw-back to when all of the desk sets were had fabric or leather covered bottoms?

Jim
That decision probably involved the fact that all components of the 500 set were mounted on the base plate and the base plate could be used for manual sets as well as dial sets.  The date was now visible without opening the set, previously it was stamped inside next to the ringer coil. Housings were still dated separately, before and after.

The 500 set also brought along new manufacturing techniques, perhaps the stamps where now applied by a machine, although there still appears to be some variation as to location.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2016, 05:43:32 PM by unbeldi »

Offline JimH

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #122 on: March 22, 2016, 06:25:01 PM »
Also, the progression of how they marked the bottom.  From the silver paint of the early 500s with the black bases, to the black ink on the goldish bases starting about 1966.  Refurbished sets had date stickers placed over the old dates by the early 70s.  New sets starting about the late 70s had simple square white labels (with rounded corners) with the model number and date printed on them.

Jim
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Offline poplar1

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #123 on: March 22, 2016, 07:12:45 PM »
Also, the progression of how they marked the bottom.  From the silver paint of the early 500s with the black bases, to the black ink on the goldish bases starting about 1966.  Refurbished sets had date stickers placed over the old dates by the early 70s.  New sets starting about the late 70s had simple square white labels (with rounded corners) with the model number and date printed on them.

Jim
New 500s still had ink stamp for model and date through the end of production in 1986. I have seen the white labels on some new sets such as the Trimline 210s. Here is a 500 from 1983.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2016, 07:16:13 PM by poplar1 »
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Offline poplar1

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #124 on: March 22, 2016, 07:29:09 PM »
I took the phone apart again, here is what I found.

Handset cord is a 53 H3BF IV

Mounting cord is a 57 D3BB 25-0

I guess it's not all matching numbers.

CDN Doug

Thanks for providing the dates. They narrow the gap for cord availability.

The 25 ft. mounting cord was probably added in the field. The original factory cord would have been the standard 5'6".
25 ft. cords were not promoted. An extension set was usually recommended rather than the "extra long" cord.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline Duffy

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #125 on: March 22, 2016, 08:07:57 PM »
The mounting cord isn't 25' anymore. Some one cut it down to 6' 10" and added a modular adapter.

CDN Doug
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Offline unbeldi

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« Last Edit: April 17, 2016, 05:37:35 PM by unbeldi »

Offline unbeldi

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Transmitters dated in 1945
« Reply #127 on: April 17, 2016, 05:18:48 PM »
As an add-on to previous observations of S– prefixes, here is an F1 transmitter with the S designation:   S8/45, undoubtably still made in St. Paul, MN. about a year after the factory was opened.

The condition of this transmitter is almost mint, if it weren't for the testing time stamps. Has outstanding voice quality.

PS 2016-05-12:
Here is a very similarly marked (S7/45) F1 transmitter in the second picture:
« Last Edit: May 12, 2016, 10:32:15 AM by unbeldi »

Offline poplar1

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #128 on: April 17, 2016, 05:36:28 PM »
Not sure where to add the S8/45. Here are ringer dates already listed:
            Steel--painted black                        S-12-44.  S-1-45 -- S-4-45 S-7-45  S-12-45
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Offline unbeldi

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #129 on: April 17, 2016, 05:39:20 PM »
Well, no reason to add them anywhere for now.  Just providing a reference point for later digestion or whatever might come along.

I think the important observation with all these is, that the S designation was not component specific, all components could be or were marked in this manner, and this supports the idea that it was for the manufacturing site.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2016, 05:49:51 PM by unbeldi »

Offline unbeldi

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #130 on: April 27, 2016, 07:33:41 PM »
This vendor sold a D3AL cord, that they claimed to have a date of II-42, that appears to have a basket-type weave.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/322078598709

From the description:

This is an original brown braided cloth Western Electric telephone line cord. It is a brown three wire cloth cord that is 77” long end to end. It is used between 302 desk set or earlier desk sets like 202 and candlestick ringer boxes and the telephone line terminal block. The braided cloth exterior cover is in excellent condition. The internal insulation is also in excellent condition. The cord is flexible and looks like new.

The retaining ring on one end is marked:
5 - 6
D 3 AL
II 42

This cord is used with Western Electric 202 and 302 desk sets.




Offline poplar1

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #131 on: April 27, 2016, 09:10:46 PM »
Thanks.

Of course, D3AL would not have been used on 202s (not enough conductors) nor even 102s (wing restraint suitable for 42A connecting block, but not for attaching to subset).

On the other hand, we now have confirmation that the D3AK cord-- which does have S-hook restraints on both ends, suitable for desk stands and 102s -- was the only standard mounting cord for non-portable color 302s, at least by 1955.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2016, 09:12:51 PM by poplar1 »
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline unbeldi

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #132 on: April 27, 2016, 09:42:04 PM »
On the other hand, we now have confirmation that the D3AK cord-- which does have S-hook restraints on both ends, suitable for desk stands and 102s -- was the only standard mounting cord for non-portable color 302s, at least by 1955.

I am not sure how you correlated that with the D3AL, but in any case I've had no doubt about that.
The D3AK cords on the colored sets are the only kind that usually have matching dates to the sets (with a quarter, max 2). By my observations, any other cord is always mismatched, meaning older by some not so reasonable time, with the usual replacement being the D3AM cord for the plug.  It appears, the D3AM were stocked on the truck and installed when needed to comply with the order.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2016, 09:44:38 PM by unbeldi »

Offline poplar1

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #133 on: April 27, 2016, 10:00:27 PM »
I was trying to give the seller some slack ("partial credit") by agreeing that there is one cord suitable for both 102s and 302s: the D3AK, at least if we are talking about color 302s, though perhaps only the 1949-1954 color 302s. I haven't checked the 1939 Catalog or pre-1942 BSPs for Mounting Cords for color 302s.


Bell System Practices                                              ADDENDUM C36.101     [Supplements C36.101, Issue 12]
Station Installation and Maintenance                     ADDENDUM C63.701
                                                                               Issue 2, August, 1954
                                                                               AT&T Standard


                                STATION CORDS

                                    ALL TYPES

[snip]


Add the following tables which list the cords obtainable
in colors, other than brown textile or black jacketed.


302-TYPE TELEPHONE SETS AND OTHER STATION
                           APPARATUS


Cord                                                                            Available Colors [for all cords listed]
Code                      For Use With                            Dash No.      Color

*D3AK                    302 Type                                     --4             Ivory                       
                                                                                 --8             Silver
*D3AM                   302 Type with                           --12             Dark Gold
                              273A or 283B Plug                    --16            Old Rose
                                                                               --18            Gray Green
*D4U                     202 Type                                   --19            Dark Blue
                                                                               --20            Pekin Red
*D4W                   202 Type
                            with 283 Plug

+H3C                 E1 and F1A Handset

H3P                     F1A Handset--Retractile

* Obtainable in standard,  9', 13', and 25' Lengths
+ Obtainable in standard and 9' lengths
« Last Edit: April 27, 2016, 10:05:14 PM by poplar1 »
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline unbeldi

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #134 on: April 30, 2016, 01:05:38 PM »
We don't have any dates in the cord record for D2E.

Here is one:  D2E, 5–6, III-46,   brown cloth, basket weave, paper label around S-hook restraint, restraints on both ends are a gray metal, not brass.
Lugs on the wall end are round eyelets for plug.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2016, 01:22:41 PM by unbeldi »