Author Topic: Date ranges for WE Parts  (Read 42907 times)

Offline BDM

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #15 on: May 13, 2014, 10:59:34 AM »
A recent 51AL acquisition. I've never seen dates like this on one let alone a late date of what I believe to be 4/40 (last repair date) on a #337 transmitter. Also the back of the #2 dial has 841R which I believe means repaired on 8/41. Interesting, figured Poplar1 and/or Bill G would be interested. What's sad on this stick is it appears someone cut both the line and receiver cords right at the base. From what I can tell, these cords are in almost new condition, at least what remains of them. They are original W.E. cords as the strain reliefs remain.

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EDIT:  At BDM's request, this post was merged into this topic. The original topic title of this post was "Curious dates on a 51AL #337 transmitter"
« Last Edit: May 14, 2014, 07:26:12 AM by TelePlay »

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Offline unbeldi

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #16 on: May 13, 2014, 10:20:58 PM »
We can extend the range for 6D dials with clear FW by another month (is 11-55 now).
I have an Imperial with a 6D stamped 6 dated 12-55. It has a 164A IV:55 number plate.

Offline unbeldi

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #17 on: May 14, 2014, 01:54:24 AM »
I also have a 6D 12-53 with plain FS, clear FW, dotted plate IV53 on a green 302 2-54.

This moves the latest date from 10-53 to 12-53 for the 6D with plain FS.


UPDATE: found another one:
6D 1-54 with plain FS, clear FW, dotted plate IV:53, found on old rose 302 1-54

This moves the latest date from 10-53 (in table) to 1-54 for the 6D with plain FS.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2014, 02:08:52 AM by unbeldi »

Offline unbeldi

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #18 on: May 14, 2014, 02:13:28 AM »
found a younger colored Tenite F1 handset:  10-53 old rose


Thermoplastic:
                   Color................................... ......5-12-41......8-53


Offline unbeldi

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #19 on: May 14, 2014, 02:26:05 AM »
This also moves the latest date for colored 302 telephones to 1-54 (old rose-16) and 2-54 (green-19)

Color................[1941]................1949.................... ..........10/53
         NOTE: Color thermoplastic 302s were made c. 1941 then c. 1949-1954


Note: The resumption of color 302s was announced in BLR v27, p.43 (January 1949) in a short paragraph:
Quote
Colored Telephone Sets Production has been resumed on colored telephone sets of the combined type, with the ivory color to be available first and old rose, gray-green, dark blue, and Pekin red to follow shortly. These colors are mixed with powdered plastic before molding. The four metallic colors, statuary bronze, dark gold, oxidized silver, and old brass will be produced by finishes applied in Western Electric's distribution house shops. Colored sets will be available initially in the Nos. 302, 304, 305 and 306 sets, and later in the 354 set.

I have an ivory plastic housing dated '12 20 48 3' which confirms this.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2014, 02:39:00 AM by unbeldi »

Offline poplar1

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #20 on: May 14, 2014, 02:31:16 AM »
Is the handset also 2-54?

This also moves the latest date for colored 302 telephones to 1-54 (old rose-16) and 2-54 (green-19)



       Color................[1941]................1949.................... ..........10/53
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline unbeldi

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #21 on: May 14, 2014, 02:41:27 AM »
Is the handset also 2-54?

This also moves the latest date for colored 302 telephones to 1-54 (old rose-16) and 2-54 (green-19)



       Color................[1941]................1949.................... ..........10/53
No, the handset for some reason is older on that phone:  "72"  which means, I suppose, July 1952.

PS: the youngest green Tenite handset I have is "8-53" on a 9-53 green 302.  Strange that the younger phone has an older handset, was perhaps replaced on that otherwise pretty well date-matched phone.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2014, 02:46:31 AM by unbeldi »

Offline poplar1

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #22 on: May 14, 2014, 02:55:05 AM »
Perhaps an Imperial with Tenite handset will reveal a later example than the 10-53 rose one...

There may be a gap in the 6D dials between the final color 302s (early 1954?)  and the start of Imperials/Continentals (1955?). So far, there are none listed between 1-54 (latest plain finger stop)  and 8-55 (marked finger stop).

"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline unbeldi

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #23 on: May 14, 2014, 03:07:54 AM »
Perhaps an Imperial with Tenite handset will reveal a later example than the 10-53 rose one...

There may be a gap in the 6D dials between the final color 302s (early 1954?)  and the start of Imperials/Continentals (1955?). So far, there are none listed between 1-54 (latest plain finger stop)  and 8-55 (marked finger stop).

oh, I do have one of those too. That's right, I forgot.  It has a 7-55 Ivory Tenite handset. That's where I found the 12-55 6D.  I believe the H3P handset cord is also 1955, and has a D4U I-56 mounting cord.

Offline unbeldi

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #24 on: May 14, 2014, 03:48:29 AM »
Perhaps an Imperial with Tenite handset will reveal a later example than the 10-53 rose one...

There may be a gap in the 6D dials between the final color 302s (early 1954?)  and the start of Imperials/Continentals (1955?). So far, there are none listed between 1-54 (latest plain finger stop)  and 8-55 (marked finger stop).

oh, I do have one of those too. That's right, I forgot.  It has a 7-55 Ivory Tenite handset. That's where I found the 12-55 6D.  I believe the H3P handset cord is also 1955, and has a D4U I-56 mounting cord.

I can do even better (in terms of color), not quite by date.  I have a "3-55" Peking Red Tenite F1 hand set ! If you want to track individual colors too. It was found on a 4-53 Peking Red 302, for whatever reason.  Perhaps they made those handsets for the Peking red Continentals in 1955?
« Last Edit: May 14, 2014, 04:16:34 AM by unbeldi »

Offline BDM

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #25 on: May 14, 2014, 06:12:30 PM »
Dave I see no given dates for the 684BA sub/network set listed. I have one dated III 36. I'm sure there are much higher ones but figure we gotta start somewhere.

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Offline unbeldi

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #26 on: May 14, 2014, 06:43:29 PM »
Dave I see no given dates for the 684BA sub/network set listed. I have one dated III 36. I'm sure there are much higher ones but figure we gotta start somewhere.
What does that date reflect?  One date alone is probably not very useful, only for, say, the chassis date. These were continually upgraded well into the 1950s, but also newly manufactured.  It was introduced probably around 1931 to replaced the 534BA. In the field you find many older bases that were overpainted and re-equipped with any which part was over-aged or defective.

A 1950s 684BA resembled a 1930s only in its function and outside shape. The original equipment of 1935 was  a 78JA ringer w/ 36A+37A gongs,    COND 194A, 146C coil.

PS: (updated typos and date of introduction)
« Last Edit: May 14, 2014, 08:38:35 PM by unbeldi »

Offline BDM

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #27 on: May 14, 2014, 06:56:14 PM »
Very true. The ringer is dated 11/40. The network coil is III-36 as well as the base. The condenser is wrapped in thin cardboard. Probably useless info on these subsets unless you suspect a very late or early stamped set. I have several I need to look at. Funny thing on this one is I know where it came from. It came from a home built in the 1920s in Grosse Pointe Farms, MI. It was in a friends home mounted up under the stair case which was the utility room. I noticed it back in the late 80s and they allowed me to remove it. It was no longer connected into the house system but left there for whatever reason. The line circuits from the box went to the main connection block where they had obviously been cut many years prior. It's one of two network boxes I own that I know the history on :)

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Offline poplar1

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #28 on: May 14, 2014, 07:27:10 PM »
The "B" in 684BA indicates a high impedance ringer, such as the 78JA or the B1A type used in 302s. So most of the time, but not always, a 684BA is a conversion--i.e., it started out as a 684A  or a 584A with a low impedance 78A ringer--and has been updated with 302-style parts.

Northern Electric 684-BX is electrically equivalent to a WE 684BA, but has a better layout. Rather than recycle 584As and 684As, they completely redesigned the chassis so that the ringer could be mounted with the coils vertical and the gongs at the bottom. WE, on the other hand, designed a bracket (for the newer style condenser and B1A ringer) that required the ringer to be mounted horizontally.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline poplar1

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #29 on: May 14, 2014, 07:45:42 PM »
Various WE/NE 584-type and 684-type subsets.
Not shown: original 684BA with 78JA ringer.

584As were manufactured starting in 1930*. These were sidetone subsets with 46C induction coils.
(*Ref: A. T. &T.'s Specifications 3852, Supplement C, May, 1930.)

The anti-sidetone circuit was introduced c. 1931. (This required 4 conductors from the subset to a 202, for example.)  146C induction coils, as shown in the photos, were provided in anti-sidetone subsets, such as the 684A,  and wall phones such as the 1653A.

101-type induction coils, developed for 302s, started appearing in 684As c. 1935. One of the early 101 coils is shown in the last picture (III 1936).
« Last Edit: May 14, 2014, 08:57:32 PM by poplar1 »
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.