Author Topic: Date ranges for WE Parts  (Read 42882 times)

Offline poplar1

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #180 on: August 05, 2016, 06:08:22 PM »
Edit:  An earlier BSP for Hand Telephone Sets, hanging type has a similar table, but with a note:
         
             3.03  The  foregoing  table  lists  the  codes  of  apparatus  with
                      a  black  finish.  The dash number (--3)  should  be 
          changed  in  accordance  with  the  table  given  in  the  section  en-
          titled  "Station  Cords"  when  other  finishes  are required.   

          BSP Section C32.104, Issue 1, 9-15-36   

This note is not included in  C38.323 issue 2. Had it been included, perhaps they would have mentioned that not only the dash number (color), but also the part number, would have to change (from G1A-3 or G1AR-3 to G3A-xx or G3AR-xx).



While on the topic of 211 telephones...

Does anyone have one with a G3A–3 or G3AR–3 (back plastic) handset that is dated before 1963 ?
Such sets should have a chromium handset cradle switch hook.

BSP C38.323 i2 of May 1959 claims they are used on 211-L,M,N,P and 212-L and M sets.

Have any been found or did they use a G1A instead?

I haven't heard of any black G3-type handsets made before the early 60s. Since Table C lists colors available, perhaps the use of "G3A-3" and "G3AR-3" was an unintentional blurring of the G1-types used on black sets and the G3-types used on color sets.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2016, 11:22:53 PM by poplar1 »
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Offline unbeldi

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #181 on: August 05, 2016, 06:27:46 PM »
Do we know the actual arrival time of the chrome cradles?  The earliest I have is on a III-63 G7-3.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2016, 06:34:31 PM by unbeldi »

Offline poplar1

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #182 on: August 05, 2016, 08:26:01 PM »
Do we know the actual arrival time of the chrome cradles?  The earliest I have is on a III-63 G7-3.


According to the BSP cited (C38.323, Issue 2, May, 1959), the 211J, 211L, and 212L all had chromium plated handset hooks. Since these sets were intended for use with 685- and 686-type subsets, they had G-type handsets. The black handset lead on the J and L sets is connected to B rather than BK.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline poplar1

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #183 on: August 05, 2016, 09:37:49 PM »
Updates:
Basket Weave cords -- H3C III 41, D3AL IV 41, on 302 dated 10/41.
Clear plungers on black 500DR 3-64
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline unbeldi

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #184 on: August 11, 2016, 10:27:19 AM »
According to the BSP cited (C38.323, Issue 2, May, 1959), the 211J, 211L, and 212L all had chromium plated handset hooks. Since these sets were intended for use with 685- and 686-type subsets, they had G-type handsets. The black handset lead on the J and L sets is connected to B rather than BK.

I think this is actually much more complex, e.g., the 212 L sets used G7 bodies which had a BK contact.


Offline poplar1

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #185 on: August 11, 2016, 10:44:14 AM »
Perhaps I misspoke, but the point I was making is that in the G6 and G7,  the black handset wire is connected to a spare terminal, rather than to BK on the hookswitch, and that 5 conductors are required rather than 4, not counting any switched leads for ringer (Tip Party ID) or for speakerphone, for connection to a network subset.

All of these G mountings can be "modified" for use with a different type subset than originally wired.  But I think the J , K, and L models were factory wired with the isolated black transmitter lead. With a network subset, the Y and BK hookswitch springs, in series with the Y and BK dial pulsing springs, form a path from one side of the line to one of the network inputs, but the black transmitter wire connects to B on the network, using a spare terminal in the G-type mounting, which
I apparently mislabeled is labeled B.

I'll have to confirm this later, as this is from memory, which may or may not be faulty these days.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2016, 11:29:32 AM by poplar1 »
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Offline poplar1

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #186 on: August 11, 2016, 11:23:44 AM »
I think this is actually much more complex, e.g., the 212 L sets used G7 bodies which had a BK contact.

Both the 211J/L [G6 mounting] and the 212L [G7 mounting]  have the black handset lead connected to B.
Although B is shown as part of the "line switch", it is actually just a spare terminal (no springs). The inside wiring cable connects from B in the mounting to B on the network.

In both the G6 and G7, "BK" is one of the d-e hookswitch springs that connects to the Y spring. In both G6 and G7, there is a blue jumper from BK to the "BL" spare terminal. (I had forgotten about this blue jumper and BL terminal.) One of the 5 leads of the inside wiring cable goes from "BL" to RR on the 425-type network. (I had stated that this lead went directly  from BK on the hookswitch to [RR on] the network, but the circuit would be the same without the blue jumper and BL terminal.)

Ref: BSP Section 502-320-400, Issue 2, January 1971
Service 211-Type Hand Telephone Sets

Section 502-320-401, Issue 2, February 1971
Service, 212L Hand Telephone Sets

Both are in the Station Installation and Repair Manual, Illinois Bell, November 1971
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline unbeldi

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #187 on: August 11, 2016, 11:38:55 AM »
[ This was written in response to the previous, uncorrected post, it is hard now to followup explicitly, but not important.]

Yes, that seems right.  They had separate connecting screws for the black lead, which was labeled just B.
The BK terminal is always a switch contact, I believe, for BK-Y.

It is not easy to summarize the use and wiring of G hangup telsets. Judging by my searches of other collector's writings, they appear to be some of the least understood telsets.

They were issued for 40 years or so with varying components, for all service types, with various subsets. They came in four major telephone types, 211, 212, 213, 214, with 13 primary suffices (A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, J, L, M, N, P) on six different switch arrangements (G1, G2, G3, G6, G7, G8), with dials 4Hx, 5Hx, 6A, 6D, 6J.

« Last Edit: August 11, 2016, 11:42:16 AM by unbeldi »

Offline unbeldi

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #188 on: August 11, 2016, 11:46:00 AM »
Did they ever have a satin-chrome hook, like some early 554 sets?

I seem to have seen one in a recent eBay listing, but it is not a clear picture.

Offline rdelius

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #189 on: August 11, 2016, 11:53:25 AM »
Don't forger the 2211 set and the dial mount for the 211 that was cast in one peice including the back.The dial was tilted real back                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       

Offline poplar1

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #190 on: August 11, 2016, 04:15:49 PM »
Addressing the original point -- chrome hooks + G-type handsets + network subsets -- I believe there are only the following:

Handset Mounting                   Hand Tel. Set                   Uses include:

G6                                          211J, 211L                 Basic Set 211J (manual), 212L (dial)
G6                                          211M
G7                                          212L                          A/A1 leads for 1A2 Key, Tip Party ID, 4-PTY Selective w/686A
G7                                          212 M
G8                                          211N, 211P

G8   (Touch-Tone)                    2212L                        A/A1 leads for 1A2 Key, Tip Party ID, 4-PTY Selective w/686A
G9   (Touch-Tone)                    2211L                        Basic Set                       
G10 (Touch-Tone)                    2211P                        3B or 4A Speakerphone

Ref:
G8, G9, G10 in TCI library:
http://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/browse/bsps/doc_details/2759-502-302-101-i3-reference-2211-2212-type-hand-telephone-sets-tl
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Offline wds

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #191 on: September 14, 2016, 06:03:58 PM »
Here's an update to the dates for the D1.  I have one dated I-35 on the inside, with the patent dates on the base.  That extends the date on the chart by one quarter.  Oddly enough, I also have another D1 dated I-35 that has the D1 USA on the back and no patent dates.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2016, 08:14:06 PM by wds »
Dave

Offline unbeldi

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #192 on: September 15, 2016, 09:00:09 AM »
"D1 WESTERN ELECTRIC MADE IN USA PATENT 1508424 1788474"

I think the second patent number in the tables should be 1788747, not?
What does yours say?

Offline wds

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #193 on: September 15, 2016, 09:57:01 AM »
1788747
Dave

Offline poplar1

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #194 on: October 02, 2016, 11:32:20 PM »

Examples of A-, H-, I- and S- markings found on WE parts, especially 302s:

Updated Reply #99 Table:

" A" suffix --                                    S-3-47A - 9-48A
         Indicates an aluminum baseplate, or a ringer that has been adjusted so that it will work properly with an aluminum baseplate.
   
"  H-" prefix -- Hawthorne?              H-1-46 - H-3-46
 
"  I-"  prefix/suffix -- Indianapolis?   8-49-I -  4-52-I

" S-"  prefix -- St. Paul, MN?             S-12-44 --   S-3-47A

(snip)

500:
Dial: 7D 1-53 I

I don't know if this "S" is related to the "S" found on 302s:
2-72 S

« Last Edit: October 02, 2016, 11:35:26 PM by poplar1 »
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.