Author Topic: Date ranges for WE Parts  (Read 42991 times)

Offline unbeldi

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #30 on: May 14, 2014, 09:14:55 PM »
Here is a 684BA that was (probably) converted from another 684-type (overpainted) around 1936 (see early 101A II-36) and again in 1948 (195A IV-47, B1A 10-38 I-48-R on coils).


The 684BA that poplar1 showed has a "red-stripe ringer" with the special cores that had a lower impedance.  Is that a 1941 date on that ringer?  I didn't know they already made those so early.  I have seen them primarily in the 302s of the 1950s.

« Last Edit: September 02, 2017, 10:41:54 PM by unbeldi »

Offline poplar1

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #31 on: May 14, 2014, 09:23:48 PM »
There are many red-stripe ringers in 1941 302s.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline unbeldi

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #32 on: May 14, 2014, 09:26:25 PM »
There are many red-stripe ringers in 1941 302s.
ok. thanks.

Offline unbeldi

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #33 on: May 14, 2014, 09:33:10 PM »
I think it would be good to create a new subforum section called perhaps "Telephone part identification and dating".
There is such a section for telephone tools, but nothing for telephone apparatus itself.

Offline poplar1

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #34 on: May 17, 2014, 03:13:19 PM »
This 584-A was made in 330 (March, 1930):

"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline unbeldi

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #35 on: May 18, 2014, 12:21:21 AM »
This 584-A was made in 330 (March, 1930):
Nice.  The 584 showed up in the Specification only in June 30, three months later, Suppl. 4566-B, 4588-A
Condenser was freshly made in 2-30 it seems.  The ringer is a 78-A ?

Offline unbeldi

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #36 on: May 18, 2014, 01:25:54 PM »
This 584-A was made in 330 (March, 1930):
Nice.  The 584 showed up in the Specification only in June 30, three months later, Suppl. 4566-B, 4588-A
Condenser was freshly made in 2-30 it seems.  The ringer is a 78-A ?

Poplar1 pointed out that he has a Spec that mentions the 584 in May 1930, which is a month before the formal description in 4566-B.  When I stated 'only in' I meant 'not until' to point out that his sample is a really early one, and may make a good reference point for the actual starting production date.

Offline poplar1

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #37 on: May 18, 2014, 08:29:01 PM »
302 Baseplates --Estimated Date Range:

With 4 holes for Ringer Mount........IV 36- Feb. 1939

      Flat, with cardboard pad under condenser.....IV 36............11/37
B       1 boss for redesigned condenser mount.........11-37............8-38
     Add 2nd boss for inverted induction coil..........9-38.............2-39


Without holes for Ringer Mount.......3/39--1954

D    2 bosses.................................. .....................3-39............12-39
E    Add 3rd boss for condenser.............................1-40.............c. 1951 4-52
F    With  steel ringer mount.................................10-52.............2/54
« Last Edit: May 09, 2016, 11:11:42 AM by poplar1 »
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline unbeldi

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #38 on: May 18, 2014, 08:39:32 PM »
302 Bases--Est. Date Range:
....

Note the ivory housing mounting code on one of the housings:  H1 (circle) (three bars)
c.f.:  http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=11868.msg126294#msg126294

Offline BDM

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #39 on: May 18, 2014, 09:54:06 PM »
On Ebay, a #337 with a later test date. Notice what looks to be an original #323 transmitter tag


--Brian--

St Clair Shores, MI

Offline poplar1

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #40 on: May 18, 2014, 11:56:14 PM »
On Ebay, a #337 with a later test date. Notice what looks to be an original #323 transmitter tag



Appears to be another wartime conversion, when there were shortages of new anything. Anyone have one with a later test date?
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline BDM

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #41 on: May 19, 2014, 01:22:54 AM »
Curious to know. BTW this topic is now a sticky. Lots of good info in this thread, thanks Terry.

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Offline unbeldi

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #42 on: May 24, 2014, 01:59:30 PM »
I just found a Tenite plastic F1 handset in Old Rose color which is dated Feb. 1949.
It is marked   "2/ 9", oddly, just like the "3/ 9" set already in the table, they didn't use a slash later in those designations.

This extends the earliest hollow-core plastic handset found by one month.



    Thermoplastic:
                   Color
                         Solid Core...........................5-12-41
                         Hollow Core.........................3/ 9(3/49)...........8-53.............7-55

 

« Last Edit: May 24, 2014, 02:06:28 PM by unbeldi »

Offline poplar1

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #43 on: May 29, 2014, 12:38:18 PM »
[size=14pt]300- Series Telephone Sets[/size]:

Model or Part Number:
Earliest:     Latest:         
Reported:  Reported:

302 Tel Set:
       Metal:
           Black
IV 36........6-46

           Color
              Oxidized Silver, Statuary Bronze, etc (Painted)
*12/40*

              Ivory, etc. (Painted)
*10/39......9/40*
              (New, painted metal Ivory, Rose, Blue, Gray-Green, Pekin Red 302s no longer made as of 1-2-41 per C30.111, Iss 4--replaced by thermoplastic.)

      Plastic:
         Black: 10/41--12/52
              Furnished with 5H dial ......
10/41.....8/52

              Furnished with 6A dial
..............12/52

         Color
1941......2/54
         NOTE: Color thermoplastic 302s were made c. 1941-2 then c. 1949-1954.
         WR-C30.011, Issue 1, 8-5-42 indicates that "the manufacture of colored station sets has been discontinued."
         "The resumption of color 302s was announced in BLR v27, p.43 (January 1949)"
         NOTE: In 1955, the WE repair shops remanufactured 302s in the 500 colors, using molded color thermoplastic housings and painted handsets.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Housing:
      Small Plungers With Tel Set Mtg Code on outside over mouse hole:
                 "H1-3"
IV 36.......5-37*

                 "H1"
*7-37....11-37

      Large plungers
                H-1 stamped outside
11-37.......7-38

                H-1 stamped inside
7-38.........2/54

Hand Hold:
     Metal (painted to match phone):
         With "vents" for ringer
IV36.......10-37
     
         Without "vents"
10-37........1942*

     Plastic
*1946......1954


Spade lugs for hookswitch and condenser:

     SOLDERED:
             hookswitch
4-37.............3/39

             condenser
4-37.............1/39
             jumper
..........................
     CRIMPED:
            hookswitch
4-395/39

            condenser
2/39

            jumper
     
Baseplate:
With 4 holes for Ringer Mount........1936- Feb. 1939
        Flat....Note: Cardboard pad under condenser
IV36...........11-37 
 
        1 boss for capacitor mount
11-37..........8-38

        Add 2nd boss for inverted ind. coil.
9-38.............2-39

Without holes for Ringer Mount
       2 bosses
3-39............12-39

       Add 3rd boss for condenser
1-40..............4-51*

With new steel ringer mount
*10-52..........2/54

Ringer:  B1A or B1AL
       RINGER DATES:
            no dates
[4-37 set]....[4-38* set]

            vermilion star, no date
[4-38]*

            stamped in black on frame between gongs
4-38*

            date stamped  on ringer coil
*6-38.......11-55

       GONGS:
       40A and 40B brass gongs
       41A and 41B gongs
             Brass
             Steel--painted black
S-1-45........S-4-45

            1 brass + 1 painted steel
1946

             Steel--unpainted
10/51........10-52

Feet:
             Rivets
4-37............IV 37

             Screws
10-37--

             Wool (on some sets)
10/46........5/48
   

Handset:

     Bakelite:
             Grooveless:
                    Black
IV 36............11/16/37
                    Brown(painted)...1939-1954
                             Solid Core
*59 (5/39).............21 (2/41)*
                             Hollow
*99 (9/49) ...........12
4 (12/54)*

             Grooved (Black)...1937-55
                    Solid Core                       
                           Date stamped in xmtr cavity
6-12-37.........1-9-39
                           Date code embossed in handle, under receiver cap
19 (1/39)......75 (7/45)*
                           Not dated on handle
[10/45 xmtr and rec units]
                    Hollow Core
*46 (4/46).......1955

    Thermoplastic:
                   Color
                         Solid Core
10-30-40............5-12-4111-3-41*

                         Hollow Core
2/ 9 (2/49)..........7-55

                   Black
*........................*

    F1 transmitter unit
IV 34...........1-73

    HA1 receiver unit
1937............4-56

    Black Plastic Caps
6-58P..........4-60P

Dial:
4H
230..............II 38*
     
5H:.......finger wheel and case are painted to match phone
     Phenol pulse pawl ("Silent"), W terminal by governor, single contacts:
III 35...............I 38

    Phenol pulse pawl, W terminal next to Y, twin contacts
II 38


     Regular pulse pawl, W by Y terminal, twin contacts:
II 38...........9-52 12-52

     Brass color terminal screws
IV 36..........II 40*

     Steel color screws
*IV 40

     Long finger stop
IV 36........6-44*
     Short finger stop
*H-3-46...9-52 12-52
     
#10 Catalog (1939): 5J dials with white enamel cases and stainless steel "finger wheels, finger stops and card holder frames" are shown  for ivory, pekin red, gray green, dark blue and old rose 302s.  302s in old brass, statuary bronze, oxidized silver and dark gold continue to have 5H dials with painted finger wheels.
     
5J ..............1937-1952
    with Stainless Steel finger wheel, number card holder, and finger stop...
IV 39..............IV 40*

    with P-298941 transparent finger wheel and nickel silver finger stop...
                 C30.011, Issue 4, 1-2-41, "Colored Station Sets"
II 41................6/42     
 
    with P-372629 transparent finger wheel....
                (BSP Addendum C30.011, Issue 1, 12-15-47)
4/47 ............12/52
>>>>>>>>1949 ad shows 302s in 9 colors, all with transparent finger wheels

6A: ............with black painted aluminum finger wheel and black case:
      plain finger stop
3-52....................4-53*

      6 stamped on finger stop
*11-54................3-70

"The 6D dial, which supersedes the 5JB, should be used for replacement purposes on plastic and painted sets  except those in the 500 series." C30.011 Issue 6, Dec. 1953
6D:..........
    With P-344837 clear finger wheel, white case, unmarked finger stop
    5-53...................1-54*

    With P-19B524 clear finger wheel, white case, and "6" stamped on finger stop
*8-55................12-55  (Available IV 54)

The P-19B524 finger wheel was also used on 7C dials for 500-series sets. If a P-19B524 was not available, a P-344837 could be used.



Number Plate:
149-type
II 34.........I 38*

150-type
         150A (numbers and "operator")
*IV 49........I 51

         150B (letters and numbers):
             Square D
*III 38.....II 40

             Rounded D, with Z
III 40..............II 53

             No Z
III 53......IV 53
         
 
P-340016... (Black dot)
           With Z
I 52........II 53

           No Z
III 53 ....I 54

164A   (No 164As found with "Z")
I 54.....IV 75
       


Handset Cord:
302s as originally assembled had H3C, H3AA, or H3AG
Fabric jacket:
H3C
      twill weave....................1937-1941
      basket weave................1942-1957
*46.........57
           
H3P (Retractile/spring)
III 40....III 55
H3W
III 45
H3AA (Wartime Restrictions--cotton covered conductors)
*I 44.......II 45
   
Other jacket:
H3H
*I 46
H3AD
II 48.....I 50 IV 50
H3AF...(spring)
II 51......57
H3AG
1952....IV 56
H3AH
I 59
H3AJ
IV 58.....IV 59
H3AR...(spring)
III 62.....67
H3AS
I 60.....62

Mounting Cord:   Original sets have D2D, D3AL, [WR], or D3AY.
Fabric jacket:
D2D
D2E (with 283B plug)
D2K--(Wartime Restrictions--cloth conductors)
IV 43
D3AL
*III 46.......52
D3AM (with 283B plug)
D3AT (Wartime Restrictions--cloth conductors)
I 45

Other jacket:
D3AY
*54.........56
D3BF
I 58
D3BK
II 59.......60
D3BP
61
________________________________________ _____________
251 Plastic
.............4-53

354..(M3 tel set mtg) .........1946-1956
             Black
1/48.............4/56
             Ivory

410-AC (2-line set)
1-42.......................12-54

5302(conversions only).......1955-'62

Multi-line 44x, 46x....1938-1954
       Metal 440, 460
       Plastic 440, 444, 460, 464
               5H dial
               6A dial


« Last Edit: November 22, 2014, 04:13:46 PM by poplar1 »
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline unbeldi

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #44 on: June 01, 2014, 10:33:19 PM »
In this auction, http://www.ebay.com/itm/351079990854, of an ivory 302, the data show that it was made in the first quarter of 1953, and it also had a 5J dial dated 12-52, just like the other earlier 53 color sets I have/observed. I still have not seen a single phone in 1953 with a newer date for a 5J.

However that set is not all original, as it has some dates of 1955.  What I found most interesting, was what the seller claims about the handset:  The handset is an F1 and marked BELL SYSTEM, MANUFACTURED BY, WESTERN ELECTRIC COMPANY, F1 on the handle.
I have not seen a 1950s Tenite handset with that inscription. AFAIK, it should read:
BELL SYSTEM
MADE BY
Western Electric
F1 *