Author Topic: Date ranges for WE Parts  (Read 42865 times)

Offline unbeldi

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #45 on: June 04, 2014, 12:17:02 PM »
Here is an F1 handset dated 7-15-38, solid core handle, grooves, separate (5) screw terminals, and with inscription
BELL SYSTEM
MADE BY
Western Electric
F1
« Last Edit: June 04, 2014, 12:20:53 PM by unbeldi »

Offline BDM

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #46 on: June 23, 2014, 12:02:23 PM »
I have a dial in a recently acquired 302 H1, II 38 with the Phenol pulse pawl. Will get a pic up when I can.

--Brian--

St Clair Shores, MI

Offline unbeldi

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #47 on: June 25, 2014, 02:33:06 PM »
300- Series Telephone Sets:

Model or Part Number:
Earliest:   Latest:         



354..(M3 tel set mtg) .........1946-1956
             Black
.............4/56
             Ivory



Since the date range for the 354 wall phone is so sparse, here is an observation (auction) of a January 1948 housing.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/171345234643

Offline unbeldi

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Re: Date ranges for WE Induction Coils
« Reply #48 on: July 15, 2014, 07:47:20 PM »
13-Type Induction Coils
The type no. 13 and 113 induction coils were intended for use in local battery telephone sets, usually with a magneto signaling generator.

... tbc


20-Type Induction Coils
The type no. 20 induction coil was an early common battery circuit induction coils using in desk set boxes and wall-mounted subscriber sets.

... tbc


46-Type Induction Coils
The type no. 46 induction coils replaced the No. 20 coil using new manufacturing techniques, including new materials for the coil core. It was a drop-in replacement for the No. 20 coil.
introduced:1919 (acc. to Bell System history)
documented: tbd
MD: tbd
observationsearliestlatest

... tbc


120 and 146-Type Induction Coils
The No. 120 and 146 type induction coils were the anti-sidetone variants of the nos. 20 and 46 induction coils, respectively.

... tbc


101-Type Induction Coils
The 101-type induction coil was developed for use in the anti-sidetone circuit which was introduced in 1930, according to Engineering and Science in the Bell System (p.109). In particular it was slated for the newer 634 and 684 subscriber sets and already found use as early as 1932 or so in the early development models leading to the 302. However, the subsets delivered at that time still used the 146-type coil.

The first mention of the 101-type induction coil appears to be in BSP C31.111, Issue 1 (June 31), stating that "... a new type closed core induction coil (101 type) will be furnished in some new sets."  In the 1933 Issue 1 of BSP Section C31.401 it is described as the 101A., but in 1935, Catalog No. 9 still listed the part number as No. 101 (without suffix letter).

Until ~Q1 1937, the units were labeled by stamps on the side of the wire spool, but later they were stamped on the outer wrapping layer of the coil, first only the date (II 37), later also the part number.

Early 104A induction coils used a non-inductive winding as resistance for loop balance in the AST circuit, while later versions used an external carbon film resistor.

introduced:1930 (acc. to Bell System history)
documented:June 1931 and Nov. 1933 (BSP)
MD: 1970s?
observationsearliestlatest
1011932 (in 302 prototype)1935(catalog) ?
101AII 36II 69CB (634, 684, (5)302, 332, misc)
101BII 38II 55CB (304)
103A(1933)?CB (629A)
104ALB (634YD, 307, 331)
   non-inductive winding??
   external resistor?II 57IV 63(331B set was made into the late 1970s)



This is a start ... I am sure collectors here can quickly expand upon the range for each one of these.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2017, 06:44:31 PM by unbeldi »

Offline poplar1

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #49 on: July 23, 2014, 02:54:54 PM »
Updated date ranges for D-1 handset mountings:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ALUMINUM MOUNTINGS:
(1930-1936)

Outside: D1, WESTERN ELECTRIC MADE IN USA PATENT 1508424 PAT PEND
Inside: P-224756 + diamond + date.................................... ........................................ .430...........III 31IV 31

Outside: D1,  WESTERN ELECTRIC MADE IN USA PATENT 1508424 PAT PEND
Inside: die stamp + date.................................... ........................................ ...................II 31.........I 32

>Outside: D1, WESTERN ELECTRIC MADE IN USA PATENT 1508424 1788474....................I 32..........IV 34


Outside: D1 USA..................................... ........................................ ......,.......................I 35..........II 36


ZINC MOUNTINGS:
(1936-1939)
Outside: D1 USA..................................... ........................................ ......,.......................I 36...........IV 37



« Last Edit: August 21, 2014, 05:01:08 PM by poplar1 »
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline unbeldi

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #50 on: July 23, 2014, 03:58:58 PM »
Updated date ranges for D-1 handset mountings:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ALUMINUM MOUNTINGS:
(1930-1936)

Outside: D1, WESTERN ELECTRIC MADE IN USA PATENT 1508424 PAT PEND
Inside: P-224756 + diamond + date.................................... ........................................ .430...........III 31



I have one of these diamond ornamented D1s that is dated  IV 31

Offline unbeldi

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #51 on: July 25, 2014, 12:09:31 PM »
Do we have any early, or starting, dates for the 101B induction coil or for the 304 telephone set?

By 1954 the 304 BSP was already at Issue 5. C63.412.
Issue 4 appears dated  5-15-47.
I have a 304 set that has a date of I 46 on the induction coil.
According to a post on the Forum, WR-63.411 (Telephone Sets Converted to 302 Types, Connections), Issue 1, 4-23-43 does not mention 304s at all.

Anyone have an earlier version of the BSP, hopefully Issue 1, or an earlier telephone set?

When did the 101B induction coil appear in telephones or subsets?


Alright, searching the forum I found this post:  http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=10024.msg106496#msg106496 It shows a telephone with a 101B coil dated 1-39.
Seems rather legit, other than the problems with the housing mismatch, so I am going to update the table here.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2014, 12:56:27 PM by unbeldi »

Offline poplar1

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #52 on: July 25, 2014, 01:02:44 PM »
Issue 3, 5-26-41
Telephone Sets, 304 Type, Connections
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline poplar1

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #53 on: July 25, 2014, 01:15:06 PM »
Issue 2, C63.412, 9-1-38

C63.411 is only for 302 sets, so WR-C63.411 would not include sets converted to 304s.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline unbeldi

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #54 on: July 25, 2014, 01:37:54 PM »
Issue 2, C63.412, 9-1-38


Do you have it?   Does it mention the 101B induction coils?
A 304 could implement the same tip-party ID circuit as we have seen in a yesterday's post of a 653-BC with a 101A coil. The set was dated 'I 39' and this prompted me to ask myself, why didn't it have a 101B coil at that time?

I am not 100% clear whether a tip-party message rate set using the 101B type circuit can be operated on the same CO equipment as a 101A-type ID circuit. But I suspect it can, because the 653-BC had only a 1000 ohm ringer, and the split coil arrangement of the B2A ringer provided a 960 ohm path to ground from the M center tap. Perhaps this was the reason for this choice of split.

Offline poplar1

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #55 on: July 25, 2014, 01:51:20 PM »
C63.412, Issue 2 does not identify the code no. for the IND in a 304, but it does show terminals RR, R, GN, C and M.

C63.233, Issue 2, 4-18-40 shows the 653BC with no M terminal on the induction coil, and only two wires for the ringer.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline unbeldi

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #56 on: July 25, 2014, 02:09:35 PM »
C63.412, Issue 2 does not identify the code no. for the IND in a 304, but it does show terminals RR, R, GN, C and M.

C63.233, Issue 2, 4-18-40 shows the 653BC with no M terminal on the induction coil, and only two wires for the ringer.

This diagram (C63.233 i2 4-18-40) could be based on either a 146 coil or on the 101A, like the diagrams prior to it that I have seen. However, we should assume it's a 101A. The one posted on the forum yesterday as found in the subset, shows the shape of the 101A and it even predates this BSP.

However, the M terminal is an indicator for a 101B. I don't recall it being used elsewhere.  I think such a set could use the high-impedance ringer as well as a low impedance type, by the reasoning I gave earlier.

Thanks for the diagram!
« Last Edit: July 25, 2014, 02:21:18 PM by unbeldi »

Offline Doug Rose

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #57 on: July 25, 2014, 02:46:40 PM »
When were the first G1 Space savers made? I found one last weekend with a date of 4/13/39 on the receiver, 4/39 on the transmitter, II 39 on the inside and I 39 on the dial plate. I still thought C1s were made in the late 30s. Any ideas?....thanks....Doug
Kidphone

Offline unbeldi

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #58 on: July 25, 2014, 03:07:23 PM »
When were the first G1 Space savers made? I found one last weekend with a date of 4/13/39 on the receiver, 4/39 on the transmitter, II 39 on the inside and I 39 on the dial plate. I still thought C1s were made in the late 30s. Any ideas?....thanks....Doug

BSP Section D353.258 Issue 1 of 5-15-38, entitled Hand Telephone Sets - Hanging Type - Cording already shows the G-type handset mounting in 211, 213, and 214 sets. This is Issue 1, so the BSP for the sets themselves can't be too far apart.

BSP C32.375 Issue 2 9-25-36 discusses handset mounting adjustments and it includes the G-types already.

« Last Edit: July 25, 2014, 03:35:37 PM by unbeldi »

Offline poplar1

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #59 on: July 25, 2014, 04:25:19 PM »
Using the center tap ("M") of the induction coil primary, and a split coil ringer, as in a 304 set, was a newer technology. The 653BC continued to use the the older method for tip party ID, as found in the 103 (D2) and 203 (D6) hand telephone sets, the 51-C desk stand, and the 553C wall set. The subsets (such as 634BC) for these sets have standard ringers and induction coils.

101-type induction coils have been found in 653A and 653BA wall sets, 684A and 684BC subsets, for example, from 1935 up. So it's not unusual to find a 101-A in a 653BC manufactured in 1939.

The "101" (not 101A or B) is shown in WE Catalog #9  (1935), page 119, in the list of induction coils. However, subsets are shown with 46C, 146B, 146C, or 101A induction coils. The 684BC (tip party ID) is shown with a 101A, the 684BA is shown with a 146C, and the 684C (no ringer) is shown with either a 101A or 146C.

Two-Party Selective Message Rate (Dial Only):
553C and 653BC are shown in Section C63.232, Issue 2, 4-18-40
103, 203, 212---------------------------C63.324, Issue 3, 10-30-36
51C and 151C---------------------------C63.374, Issue 1, 3-2-36
304---------------------------------------C63.412

203:
One side of the ringer (black) is connected to Ground. The other ringer lead (red) connects through a capacitor to L2 (tip) when on hook. When the phone is off hook, the red ringer wire connects directly to L2, bypassing the capacitor. The central office detects presence of high resistance tip to ground (through the ringer) in order to bill the tip party for the call.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.