Author Topic: Date ranges for WE Parts  (Read 42979 times)

Offline unbeldi

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #90 on: November 18, 2014, 02:42:39 PM »
With Bruce's 11-57 Lt. Gray 500DR, the earliest 500s in colors other than black observed so far are as follows:

4/54  Red
5/54  Med. Blue
6/54  Brown
11/54 Oxford Gray
5/55  Yellow
7/55  Green
11/55 Rose Beige
6/56   Ivory

10/57  Pink
10/57 Aqua Blue
11/57 Lt. Gray
2/58  White
2-61  Lt. Beige

11-64 Turquoise

Anyone have earlier matched dates sets in any of the above colors?

Ivory 4-55

Offline Kenton K

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #91 on: November 18, 2014, 03:01:08 PM »
Tptech302 says he has a 2/55 rose beige

Offline poplar1

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #92 on: February 02, 2015, 10:00:29 AM »
6 Original Rotary Trimline Colors
 
Wall: White, Beige, Yellow and Pink

Desk: White, Beige, Pink, Blue and Turquoise

Market Trials

Jackson, Michigan, and Janesville, Wisconsin

Introduction

Michigan Bell, August, 1965
"The rest of the Bell System plans to bring the phone to the public on a company-by-company basis."

Reference:
"all about the Trimline phone" booklet, 9/65
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

           September 1, 1978, the Bell System added rust and chocolate brown to the existing eight colors
           that make up the Trimline product line.


Dialtone, final edition, Sept. 13, 1984





« Last Edit: February 23, 2015, 12:05:14 AM by poplar1 »
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline unbeldi

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #93 on: March 06, 2015, 08:50:21 PM »
I noticed that the 1957 Graybar catalog shows a 164A number plate dated in 1953 a few months earlier than our observed date.



PS 2016-05-08:   It appears, btw, that Graybar took this image from an AT&T BSP.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2016, 07:48:41 PM by unbeldi »

Offline poplar1

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #94 on: March 06, 2015, 09:36:31 PM »
IIIII 53=I 54?
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline unbeldi

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #95 on: March 06, 2015, 09:40:24 PM »
IIIII 53=I 54?

I am certain that is III ::53, with the two ::  double dots connected, but clearly separated from the quarter.

We never have figured out what the extra punctuation around the year means. This does not make the puzzle any simpler.

It's interesting to note that this comes right after our existing cut off date for the dotted No.6 Z plates:
II 53  with dot and Z
and places it at the same time as the dotted plate without Z, III 53.

« Last Edit: March 07, 2015, 12:35:31 PM by unbeldi »

Offline unbeldi

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #96 on: March 13, 2015, 10:33:49 PM »
In the section on Subsets, the 684A starts at III 31.

I have one marked  II 31 on both base plate and ringer coil.

First appearance in BSPs is probably C31.111 i1 1931-06-01.






Subsets, common battery:

Sidetone: for 102, 20 AL, 40 AL, 50 AL, 51 AL. (May also be used with 202 or 151AL)
212
295A (oak or walnut).............c.1905
     21-D Condenser:
            2.0 uF.......c. 1905-1914?
             1.0 uF.......c. 1918?- ?

295BP (cow gongs)
334A (steel, exposed gongs)...c.1916-
      6A ringer, 25A gongs, 20 Induction Coil {C31.101, Issue 1, 2-15-33==TCI Library}
     
534A (steel, enclosed gongs)..c. 1920-1930(?)
      With No. 46 Induction Coil and 8A ringer
      With No. 46B Induction Coil and 8A ringer
      With No. 46B Induction Coil and  __  ringer (inverted gongs) c. 1929-1930
584A (brass with Bakelite cover)..c.1930-1943.........330 230....I 42
      46C induction coil, 78A ringer

Anti-sidetone: (for 202, 211, 151 AL, 152 AB)
434A   (conversions only)
     146B induction coil    {C31.111, Issue 1, June 1931} (TCI Library)
     101A induction coil     {C31.101 Issue 3, July, 1953}  (TCI library)

495BP  (conversions only)--Cow gongs
634A  (Steel) (Conversions only?)
684A  (Bakelite cover)....c. 1931-.......III 31.......................................II 37
        
         101-type Induction Coil.................................... ...........IV 34

         146-type Induction Coil, 78A ringer
634BA (Steel, high impedance ringer) (Conversions only?)
684BA (Bakelite cover, high impedance 78JA or B1A/B1AL ringer)....III 36...12/55

                                 

Offline unbeldi

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #97 on: March 14, 2015, 02:42:50 PM »
I found a 6D dial with a "6"-marked finger stop, dated 2-55.  The 164A number plate on this was pristine from III::54.
That brings these a lot closer to the 6A with such finger stops.

The current oldest appears to be 8-55 in the charts:





6A.......1952-1970.......with black painted aluminum finger wheel and black case
      plain finger stop 3-52 -- 4-53*
      6 stamped on finger stop
*11-54 -- 3-70
6D........1953-1955.......with P-344837 or P-19B524 clear finger wheel and white case
     plain finger stop..................5-53 -- 1-54*
      6 stamped on finger stop.......*8-55 -- 12-55
"The 6D dial, which supersedes the 5JB, should be used for replacement purposes on plastic and painted sets  except those in the 500 series." C30.011 Issue 6, Dec. 1953

6AA             83/03

Note: the P-344837 could also be used on 6D and 7C dials, if the P-19B524 was not available.



Offline poplar1

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #98 on: August 12, 2015, 05:18:49 PM »
" A" suffix indicates an aluminum baseplate, or a ringer that has been adjusted so that it will work properly with an aluminum baseplate. S-3-47A - 9-48A

"  H-" prefix -- Hawthorne?  H-1-46 - H-3-46

"  I-"  prefix/suffix -- Indianpolis?     8-49-I

" S-"  prefix -- St. Paul, MN?   S-12-44 -- S-3-47A

Examples of A-, H-, I- and S- markings found on WE parts, especially 302s:

1944:
Ringer, Baseplate:  S-12-44


1945:
Ringer: S-1-45, S-4-45, S-7-45, S-12-45
Transmitter: S8/45

1946:
Dial:    H-1-46  H-3-46
Ringer: S-2-46, S-6-46
Baseplate: S-6-46

1947:
Baseplate: S-3-47A, 11-47A,
Ringer:      S-3-47A

1948:
Baseplate: 9-48A

1949:
F1 Transmitter Unit:
8-49-I


1950:
Dial:  I-1-50
Ringer  1-50-I
Baseplate 1-50-I


1953:
Baseplate and Ringer:  4-53-I


« Last Edit: May 08, 2016, 05:07:37 PM by poplar1 »
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline unbeldi

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #99 on: August 12, 2015, 05:22:41 PM »
"-A" indicates an aluminum baseplate, or a ringer that has been adjusted so that it will work properly with an aluminum baseplate.

"-S" -- unknown significance
" H-"-- unknown

Examples of S-, H- and A- markings found on WE parts, especially 302s:

1947:
"S-3-47-A" -- 302: baseplate, ringer

H-?  really?   Have only seen –A, S–, and –I.

Do you have an actual 1947 find with  S– ?,  I believe I have only seen them in 1945.

–A aluminum variants are from ca. 1947 to 1949.

–I variants span a broader time range until at least 1953.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2015, 05:30:52 PM by unbeldi »

Offline poplar1

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #100 on: August 12, 2015, 05:38:41 PM »
Yes, I'm looking at a 302 dated "S-3-47A" on the inside baseplate, also with a ringer marked "S-3-47A". I had forgotten about -I, will add it to the list.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline unbeldi

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #101 on: August 12, 2015, 05:50:23 PM »
From cursory scan of data, I think I have these (–I) from 1949 to 4-53–I, on bases and ringers, some red stripes.

From ringer impedance measurements at ringing frequencies (15-65 Hz) I have some preliminary indications that they may have a slightly higher impedance, but I need to measure multiple units.
The slope of the impedance vs. frequency graph seems to have a significant increase in slope, which I think indicates that the inductance is higher.  A red stripe ringer showed no significant difference though, which kind of contradicts that thought, because supposedly their inductance was only 9 henry, while a normal B1A had 20H.  On the other hand, the behavior at low frequencies of ringing, does not necessarily tell much about the audio frequency range, where inductive noise comes to play.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2015, 06:00:48 PM by unbeldi »

Offline compubit

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #102 on: August 12, 2015, 10:36:46 PM »
A few dates to add (based on what I have close at hand...)

1500D White with Light Gray Faceplate - 9/66
1500D Pink with Muted Pink Faceplate - 10/67
1500D Green with Charcoal Faceplate - 11/65
1500D Aqua Blue with Charcoal Faceplate - 10/66 (Date matched birthday phone!)
1500D Beige with Muted Beige Faceplate - 1/66
1500D Turquoise with Muted Turquoise Faceplate - 5/66 (base/cord/handset/Touch Tone pad stamped 65, but base plastics are 5/66)

554B Turquoise - Plastic stamped 10/65; base stamped 2/68
2500D Light Gray - Plastic stamped 5/70; internals stamped 10/72 (nice long thick gray cord!)

702B Turquoise - base stamped red 6/70 (Refurb date?)
702B Lt Gray - 12/70

Pink AC1 base - 2/67
Aqua Blue AC1 (with 1220A handset) - 12/66

Red 2554B - 4/68
Red AD1 (with 1220A handset) - 8/67

Jim
A phone phanatic since I was less than 2 (thanks to Fisher Price); collector since a teenager; now able to afford to play!
Favorite Phone: Western Electric Trimline - it just feels right holding it up to my face!

Offline unbeldi

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #103 on: September 09, 2015, 06:26:38 PM »
" A" suffix indicates an aluminum baseplate, or a ringer that has been adjusted so that it will work properly with an aluminum baseplate.

"  H-" prefix -- unknown significance

"  I-"  prefix -- unknown

" S-"  prefix -- unknown

Examples of A-, H-, I- and S- markings found on WE parts, especially 302s:

1945:
Ringer: S-1-45, S-4-45, S-7-45, S-12-45

1946:
Ringer: S-2-46
Dial:    H 1-46  H-3-46

1947:
Baseplate: S-3-47A, 11-47A,
Ringer:      S-3-47A

1948:
Baseplate: 9-48A

1953:
Baseplate and Ringer:  4-53-I


Could the S– prefix mean the sets were manufactured in St. Paul, MN where Western bought a factory building in 1944 to resume telephone production?



==Other S– sightings==
* http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=7736.0
* http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=15203.0

« Last Edit: May 07, 2016, 09:23:32 PM by unbeldi »

Offline unbeldi

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Re: Date ranges for WE Parts
« Reply #104 on: September 11, 2015, 07:42:45 PM »

Could the S– prefix mean the sets were manufactured in St. Paul, MN where Western bought a factory building in 1944 to resume telephone production?


In extensions of the suggestion, I would continue with the further assumption that the H– prefix indicates that the item was manufactured at Hawthorne Works.   Both of these prefixes only appear, from the data presented here, during these early years right after the war.

If manufacturing indeed started up again in late 1944 in St. Paul, and later expanded to, or was moved back to Hawthorne after space had been freed by the end of war equipment production, it would seem to be necessary only for a short time, as is the record shows.

It also interesting that the marking for technical differences were appended as suffixes to the dates (–A, –I), so perhaps the location marks were prefixed (S–, H–).

Schlagheck and Lantz write in their book of 2014 the following:
The Model 300 series of telephones debuted in 1936. More than 25 million of them poured out of Hawthorne and other Western Electric factories over the next 18 years. The square base held all the circuitry, so, unlike candlestick models, the 300s did not need the separate ringer unit. However, the consumer's choice of color was still limited to black.

D. Schlagheck, C. Lantz, "Hawthorne Works", Arcadia Publishing, 2014, ISBN 9781467111355, page 61.

« Last Edit: September 11, 2015, 08:09:34 PM by unbeldi »