Author Topic: E-Bay WE Space Savers - What's the Difference  (Read 3720 times)

Offline Slal

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E-Bay WE Space Savers - What's the Difference
« on: April 22, 2014, 05:57:57 PM »
Just curious.  Typing in "Automatic Electric" space saver = 0 phones, so just typed in "Space Saver."

What's interesting is activity for these two auctions & bid amounts.

One is advertised as 1928.  Here I'm a little confused.  If "virgin" or untouched from 1928, wouldn't it have #395 trans and #2HB dial?

The #4 dial came out in 30's when they'd also have started retrofitting w/f-1 trans. correct?

Second listing looks the same to me; seller just isn't using marketing terms or saying phone is from specific year.

Both look like they have #4 dials & handsets w/f-1 transmitter.

So for more experienced eyes... What's the difference?  What is making one twice as valuable?

thx

--Bruce


Offline poplar1

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Re: E-Bay WE Space Savers - What's the Difference
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2014, 07:22:21 PM »
Can you provide the link or item numbers?

4H dials were  available in 1930 for D1s, which required internally mounted finger stops--not sure when they started putting them on C1s (201s)

625A transmitter to replace the 395B: 1935
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline Kenton K

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Re: E-Bay WE Space Savers - What's the Difference
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2014, 08:18:15 PM »
One phone may be double the other right now, but you never know what the selling price will be. Prices often jump at the very end.

Ken

Offline paul-f

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Re: E-Bay WE Space Savers - What's the Difference
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2014, 11:58:11 PM »
I agree with Ken.  Value is demonstrated in the closing price and not before.
 
One factor to consider if you bid is that the top one has the proper L-shaped mounting bracket, while the lower one has a bracket for the 211 set.
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Offline Slal

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Re: E-Bay WE Space Savers - What's the Difference
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2014, 01:06:18 PM »
Can you provide the link or item numbers?

4H dials were  available in 1930 for D1s, which required internally mounted finger stops--not sure when they started putting them on C1s (201s)

625A transmitter to replace the 395B: 1935

Thanks for replies.  Western Electric such a large company-- just doing research before any bidding.

Still not sure I understand.  How could phone in 1st auction be "untouched" from 1928 if it's using a later transmitter? 

And it would still need a #2 dial correct?

Anyway requested listing #'s

1st screenshot: 171305801777

2nd screenshot: 281315667316

I agree with Ken.  Value is demonstrated in the closing price and not before.
 
One factor to consider if you bid is that the top one has the proper L-shaped mounting bracket, while the lower one has a bracket for the 211 set.

Yes, completed listings final say.  What got me curious on first one was why so many bids (30) so early.  Guess it's fun, but (for pens at least) conventional wisdom is to bid fairly late.  Usually activity picks up in last few minutes then maybe final spike at 2 second mark when robo-ware kicks in. 

Anyway, look for L-shaped bracket.  Got it.  That's the kind of experience & attention to detail need to learn.

thx

--Bruce

Offline Fabius

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Re: E-Bay WE Space Savers - What's the Difference
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2014, 01:29:09 PM »
Whoever gets the first phone needs to be gentle when mounting it because as the seller points out it's a virgin.
Tom Vaughn
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Offline poplar1

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Re: E-Bay WE Space Savers - What's the Difference
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2014, 07:57:23 PM »
The first one "1928" (Item #171...) has the correct L-bracket, 1940-1953 (rounded D) 150B number plate, post-1945 (short finger stop) 5H dial, and as you pointed out later type transmitter (1935 or later). The C1 handset mounting is probably dated inside. The E1 handle does have the old 9-line logo so the handle anyway is probably 1928-1930. This phone does not have the extra spacer between the handset mounting and the 39A dial mounting, so this limits the possible positions for the dial.

The second one (Item #281...) has the wrong L-bracket, 4H or 5H dial, probably 164A number plate (post-1953), basket weave H3C handset cord (post-1941), quarter-modular line cord (new) and later transmitter 1935 or later.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline Slal

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Re: E-Bay WE Space Savers - What's the Difference
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2014, 09:17:37 AM »
Whoever gets the first phone needs to be gentle when mounting it because as the seller points out it's a virgin.

Heh.  And from 1928 no less. 

"For sale: old virgin telephone.  Receiver almost deaf.  Constantly transmits very loud.  Dial works great though-- real spinster."

OK.  That was bad-- even for me-- but best rejoinder could think of in early AM.  ; )

 
The first one "1928" (Item #171...) has the correct L-bracket, 1940-1953 (rounded D) 150B number plate, post-1945 (short finger stop) 5H dial, and as you pointed out later type transmitter (1935 or later). The C1 handset mounting is probably dated inside. The E1 handle does have the old 9-line logo so the handle anyway is probably 1928-1930. This phone does not have the extra spacer between the handset mounting and the 39A dial mounting, so this limits the possible positions for the dial.


The second one (Item #281...) has the wrong L-bracket, 4H or 5H dial, probably 164A number plate (post-1953), basket weave H3C handset cord (post-1941), quarter-modular line cord (new) and later transmitter 1935 or later.

Thanks.  Quite a few details to look for on WE phones.  Catalog #7 (1929) doesn't seem to mention a 'space saver' that I could find.  Catalog #9 (1935) has one called a "C1" type.  By then 4H dial.  So...

Early 30's for earliest example with #2 dial or it's in catalog 7 just didn't see it?   

thx

--Bruce   

PS:  Anyone know other sources for WE catalogs 1928-early 30's?  Only two I have courtesy TCI 'members' area. 

Offline HarrySmith

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Re: E-Bay WE Space Savers - What's the Difference
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2014, 12:34:33 PM »
Space saver is not the proper name.
C mount & G mount are the "proper"
Nomenclature.
Space Saver was an AE name.
Harry Smith
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TCI

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there is only
do or do not"

Offline poplar1

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Re: E-Bay WE Space Savers - What's the Difference
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2014, 07:39:44 AM »
If the sequence of models follows the alphabet, then the C-1 handset mounting would have been introduced after the 1928 B-1 and before the 1930 D-1. And the C-type was replaced by the G-type in 1936. The earliest ones definitely had 2H-type dials and 395B ("bullet") transmitters.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline Slal

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Re: E-Bay WE Space Savers - What's the Difference
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2014, 09:55:57 AM »
Space saver is not the proper name.
C mount & G mount are the "proper"
Nomenclature.
Space Saver was an AE name.

Beginning to understand now.  From topic header, typing "Western Electric space saver phone" is like saying "I have a Ford Corvette sports-car."  Wrong make & manufacturer.     

Better to say "Western Electric C-1 mount"  Plus...  If understand correctly WE was very specific in saying *exactly* what configuration.  e.g. "C-1 - 102" = small bracket mounted phone with side-tone subset.  "C-1 - 202" would've meant same unit with AST subset.

Wish I'd bookmarked site.  One had even more alpha-numeric info.  Example:  "D-1 202 - CT-xxxxx-xxx"  The last part would've been its *exact* electrical configuration & where the 'BSP's' come into play? 

Learning how to navigate around WE is going to take some time.               

If the sequence of models follows the alphabet, then the C-1 handset mounting would have been introduced after the 1928 B-1 and before the 1930 D-1. And the C-type was replaced by the G-type in 1936. The earliest ones definitely had 2H-type dials and 395B ("bullet") transmitters.

Great.  Guess that about wraps it up.  Know more about what to look for, or ask sellers about.  Little details too that probably wouldn't have found in a book.  *Spacer* for the dial mounting, etc.

Thanks for replies. 

--Bruce
   

Offline poplar1

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Re: E-Bay WE Space Savers - What's the Difference
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2014, 12:42:57 PM »
C-1 refers to the "handset mounting" only. The complete 201 "hand telephone set" consists of the C-1 handset mounting + E1B or E1E handset + H3B handset cord + optional 2H-type or 4H-type dial.

201 A =non dial
201 B =with 2HA or 4HA dial (numbers only)
201C  =with 2HB or 4HB dial (numbers and letters)

-3= black

E or F= handset type

So a complete hangar type hand telephone set with E-type handset, cords, and dial with numbers and letters= 201C-3E. This code does not include the subset, typically a 684A.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline rdelius

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Re: E-Bay WE Space Savers - What's the Difference
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2014, 03:22:21 PM »
Space maker AE trademark ,used on type 183 sets .Possibly missused for type 43 and 83 sets.
Space saver-I have never encountered old paperwork to verify if this was a WE term or something that was named by collectors
« Last Edit: April 25, 2014, 04:07:15 PM by rdelius »

Offline paul-f

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Re: E-Bay WE Space Savers - What's the Difference
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2014, 11:09:12 PM »
Space saver wan't WE's choice.  They used terms like "hang-up type hand telephone sets" or "201-type hand telephone sets" when describing them.
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